Way2Fast

iTrader: (1)

Okay let me start this by saying this is not hit against anyone, this is just a comparison of an old build and question about new upgrades.

So way back in 2000 I put this together. I had a 98 SS. I rebuilt the stock bottom end. Light hone of the block, cleaned up pistons and rods and balanced the rotating assy. I used hastings rings and fed mogul bearings. I reused the stock rod bolts. For the heads, they were ported by a local machine shop. Gained 51 cfm at peak. They were also milled .030". I put the block together and kept all clearances between .0025-.0028". Used an MTI B1 cam. I should note stock injectors and fuel pump as well. Normal bolt on stuff like LS6 intake, ud pulley, mac headers and off road y with mufflex 3.5" cat back and a cutout. Had a Yank TP4400 and 3.73 gears. As far as tune goes I had sent computer to MTI for initial adjustments and sent it back once to take some fuel out and add timing. No real tune there but got the job done. With hals upfront and v6 springs with 3 way shocks in the back. Car weighed 3450 with me in it.

Okay all that said car ran 11.20 at 118.5 w/1.50 60' on motor
On a 150 shot ran 10.48 at 128 w/1.49 60'

That was in April 2001. So my question is why does everyone recommend a fast intake, a huge cam and way expensive heads to make xxxrwhp? I mean, I drove this car across the country and back. Raced on the street and on the track a ton. Car got 24 mpg highway and was very streetable, even without a real tune.

Like I said I am not trying to knock just trying to understand. I want to take advantage of what wasn't available when I did this the first time.

Way2Fast

iTrader: (1)

Anyone?

mark21742

A lot of ego lol.

Hey I'm still running my original 241's that came on my 04 GTO....I ported the hell out of them and milled them down to get 57cc chambers, then bolted them on my 408, and it is insane!

Now people can easily run bigger cams and still be real streetable because the tuning software has gotten a lot better so you can do more to get a larger cam tamed for the street.

Way2Fast

iTrader: (1)

Thanks. Not a lot of ego, just trying to figure the new **** out. I had not looked at ot from that point about the tuning allowing for much more cam and still having good street manners. Looking at it from my "old" perspective, you can see why I didn't see that. Only the ones lucky enough to be close to the few shops capable of tuning or rich enough to take their car to them had that option. But, it makes more sense now.

96capricemgr

iTrader: (1)

A LOT of guys want to push aftermarket heads because they read in a magazine how great they are, then as long as you have spent too much on a head that doesn't live up to it's hype you have to pretend it is because of a few stock pieces left bolted to it so you have to buy aftermarket replacements for those too. I think it happens with many other platforms too not just the LS

Way2Fast

iTrader: (1)

For me its just economics. The car was/is still a money pit, so if I can achieve what I am looking for without breaking the bank that is what I will do. I can't see ever paying 2k+ for heads, but that's me and I am not going for max gain. I figured a decent ported LS6 or even my 241s will do what I want. Now that the tuning is readily available I can get a little more cam than I had and make it work like my old setup.

ss454327

iTrader: (10)

As you slap on more and more mods the power gains decrease. You are not going to gain a lot of power from one cam to the next once you get into the 224 range. Also once you get decent flowing heads there isn't a lot to gain there either. I'd say no more than 15hp going from a 224/224 to a donkey dick cam and only 50hp or so from stock 243s to the best heads. That sounds like a lot but lets say you have a 228R cam and a set of mid level heads (ported 243s or 5.3s)...going up to the biggest and best will only give you say 30hp over what you were already running. That's not a huge improvement but at this point every mod counts. That's where the FAST comes in. I wouldn't consider it worth the money if you already have an LS6 intake, aren't going all out and want a good daily driver. If you were already going all out on H/C why not squeeze the last HP out of it?

Way2Fast

iTrader: (1)

Totally understood and well put.

ss454327

iTrader: (10)

I'm all for your point also...I have an LS1 with stock 243s, a 216/224 cam and an LS6 intake. I'm not going to change anything until I'm ready to do it all. I'm going to send my heads to AI, get a bigger cam and slap on a FAST all at once and I'm hoping for 50rwhp gain...that's not that much honestly.

96capricemgr

iTrader: (1)

Yes the more power you make the harder a few HP is to come by.

Really though marketing is a MUCH bigger issue I have literally driven 500miles to race my junkyard shortblock crap and been faster than the no budget spared ported aftermarket heads stroker trailer queen.

Few folks seem capable of separating fact from marketing. Look around and in all the head threads people pretend ported OEM castings is "budget" as opposed to results and that even when the aftermarket casting stuff is slower it is still somehow better because of a "thicker deck" and other excuses they come up with.

Nobody can compete with an OEM's R&D budget and the HP wars are in full swing and have been since the early to mid 90s. Now granted OEM goals are not always the same as an enthusiast but their R&D budget does give them a good advantage in making quality parts.

Here is one of my favorite threads about how ported OEM stuff can surpass the "best" aftermarket stuff.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/dynamomet...-gm-5-3-a.html

Gunslinger09

Yep.

It pretty much boils down to people seeing the latest part with a cool name on the Internet and buying it because it is Teh New Hotness.

Way2Fast

iTrader: (1)

Don't get me wrong, I see that philosophy on here a lot. Sort of the reason I asked. Not because what we achieved in the early LS1 days was better, just that the average hot rod guys on here are doing about the same with a lot of higher dollar goodies. I just wanted to build a solid foundation as I had before and make some tweaks here and there.