Crap! Still overheating
07-30-2012, 10:31 PM
#1
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Crap! Still overheating Hi, i just replaced my OEM radiator with a be cool unit, my water pump is electric (mezier) 160stat , and the car still overheats with ac on, or runs hot (200-220)
I read somewhere that the ac condenser might be dumping too much hot air on the radiator causing it to heat up.
I was wondering if i could use a transmission cooler as an A/C condenser, seeing that it has been used the other way around by some ppl on the forum (condenser as oil cooler).
That way i can mount a double pass independant unit with its own fan away from the radiator.
Any thoughts?
I read somewhere that the ac condenser might be dumping too much hot air on the radiator causing it to heat up.
I was wondering if i could use a transmission cooler as an A/C condenser, seeing that it has been used the other way around by some ppl on the forum (condenser as oil cooler).
That way i can mount a double pass independant unit with its own fan away from the radiator.
Any thoughts?
07-30-2012, 11:24 PM
#3
Well I found that I had to have the factory deflectors in place to keep my engine temps down. Not sure what yours looks like currently. Just a quick heads up for you. I ran a LT1 radiator and could drive around with A/C on. It would run hotter than night time, but usually 200 during a 100+degree day. with a lot smaller radiator than you and stock water pump with a 160* thermastat. GL!
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07-31-2012, 10:01 AM
#11
Everytime I've pulled my thermostat Its always overheated due to the water not sitting in the rad long enough to cool. What I've always found works well is to take the center out of the thermostat and just reinstall the outer ring. This restricts the flow enough to slow the flow through the rad so the water can cool. Im curently running this in my turbo 370ci nova with no issues. It sits between 170-180 on our 90-100 degree days here in maryland
07-31-2012, 10:05 AM
#12
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Everytime I've pulled my thermostat Its always overheated due to the water not sitting in the rad long enough to cool. What I've always found works well is to take the center out of the thermostat and just reinstall the outer ring. This restricts the flow enough to slow the flow through the rad so the water can cool. Im curently running this in my turbo 370ci nova with no issues. It sits between 170-180 on our 90-100 degree days here in maryland
07-31-2012, 10:19 AM
#14
Water pulls heat better than a 50/50 mix of water and antifreeze.
I reduced my coolant mixture to 10 percent - 90 percent water and 10 percent antifreeze. Since you don't live in a cold climate where it freezes during fall and winter you won't have to switch your coolant in the winter like I do.
I tried Water Wetter and another brand but neither seemed to make a difference.
I found this (MotorMax) and tried it. It appears to work better than Water Wetter.
http://www.motormax.us/index.htm
As for additional AC cooling capacity. IMO the AC in our cars isn't designed properly. Yes, the AC condensor does sit directly in front of the radiator on most cars and trucks and most don't have a pusher fan on the condensor to aid with heat transfer either.
However on our cars there is a difference and that difference is that all air that passes through the radiator has to "by design" pass through the AC condensor first.
Why - because the radiator is closed off from outside air due to the plastic shrouding that encapsulates the AC condensor and radiator. Even the bottom of the radiator closed off.
So rather than getting ambient air to the radiator - it was a 110 here yesterday - the radiator instead gets super heated air from the AC condensor which is close to 200 degrees.
No wonder then, that your big BeCool or Griffin radiator can't transfer heat fast enough from the coolant which is 220 or more when it only has 10 - 20 degrees of cooler air from the AC condensor to work with.
IMO the air dam should have been placed further back where it would have pushed air up to the radiator through an opening at the bottom of the radiator and the AC condensor. Problem is - there is no opening.
Instead, the air dam is just directly under the AC condensor where it pushes air up to the AC condensor into the enclosed shrouding. That system was effective when the air filter was there because the engine was also drawing air - it's an air pump - into the engine from the encapulated plastic shrouding.
You perhaps remember cleaning your air filter and found that it actually contained find pebbles of sand and grit and perhaps even water after a rain. There was a lot of suction to get that debris up there because the engine was drawing it up there along with the help of the air dam at the bottom of the ac condensor. Sometimes enough, to water lock the engine during a heavy downpour.
But with turbos and superchargers we get air from another source and we don't used the engine as a pump anymore to draw air up to the AC condensor.
So what to do?
I installed two puller fans on the radiator shroud.
I installed two 11 inch pusher fans on the ac condensor operated by an on/off switch (off in the winter).
I run a 10 percent mixture of antifreeze and a full bottle of MotorMax.
I removed all of the plastic shrouding because I have an FMIC.
I opened up the grille area - 1998 Camaro grille.
I wrapped insulation tape around the radiator hose.
I cleaned the AC condensor of all debris - the bottom 3-4 inches was completely closed with sand,dirt, and small sand pebbles.
I would have done the same with the radiator, but it is a new LT1 radiator.
I removed the rubber seal under the hood at the cowl to help remove heat soaked air out of the engine bay.
I think heat shields would help also to deflect heat from my ARH headers but don't have the skills to make anything like that - the stock headers had shields. Headers don't help to reduce engine bay temps.
And even with all of that - I ran 220-230 on a trip back from Dallas. It was 106 degrees that day. In order to keep the temps from going higher I backed my mph down from 75 mph to 65 mph. At 75 mph with 3.73 gears I was right at about 2500 rpm. I have an a4 with a Yank converter with lockup.
Tip: As a test, point a temp gun into the cavity between the condensor and the radiator with the AC on and it will shock you.
I reduced my coolant mixture to 10 percent - 90 percent water and 10 percent antifreeze. Since you don't live in a cold climate where it freezes during fall and winter you won't have to switch your coolant in the winter like I do.
I tried Water Wetter and another brand but neither seemed to make a difference.
I found this (MotorMax) and tried it. It appears to work better than Water Wetter.
http://www.motormax.us/index.htm
As for additional AC cooling capacity. IMO the AC in our cars isn't designed properly. Yes, the AC condensor does sit directly in front of the radiator on most cars and trucks and most don't have a pusher fan on the condensor to aid with heat transfer either.
However on our cars there is a difference and that difference is that all air that passes through the radiator has to "by design" pass through the AC condensor first.
Why - because the radiator is closed off from outside air due to the plastic shrouding that encapsulates the AC condensor and radiator. Even the bottom of the radiator closed off.
So rather than getting ambient air to the radiator - it was a 110 here yesterday - the radiator instead gets super heated air from the AC condensor which is close to 200 degrees.
No wonder then, that your big BeCool or Griffin radiator can't transfer heat fast enough from the coolant which is 220 or more when it only has 10 - 20 degrees of cooler air from the AC condensor to work with.
IMO the air dam should have been placed further back where it would have pushed air up to the radiator through an opening at the bottom of the radiator and the AC condensor. Problem is - there is no opening.
Instead, the air dam is just directly under the AC condensor where it pushes air up to the AC condensor into the enclosed shrouding. That system was effective when the air filter was there because the engine was also drawing air - it's an air pump - into the engine from the encapulated plastic shrouding.
You perhaps remember cleaning your air filter and found that it actually contained find pebbles of sand and grit and perhaps even water after a rain. There was a lot of suction to get that debris up there because the engine was drawing it up there along with the help of the air dam at the bottom of the ac condensor. Sometimes enough, to water lock the engine during a heavy downpour.
But with turbos and superchargers we get air from another source and we don't used the engine as a pump anymore to draw air up to the AC condensor.
So what to do?
I installed two puller fans on the radiator shroud.
I installed two 11 inch pusher fans on the ac condensor operated by an on/off switch (off in the winter).
I run a 10 percent mixture of antifreeze and a full bottle of MotorMax.
I removed all of the plastic shrouding because I have an FMIC.
I opened up the grille area - 1998 Camaro grille.
I wrapped insulation tape around the radiator hose.
I cleaned the AC condensor of all debris - the bottom 3-4 inches was completely closed with sand,dirt, and small sand pebbles.
I would have done the same with the radiator, but it is a new LT1 radiator.
I removed the rubber seal under the hood at the cowl to help remove heat soaked air out of the engine bay.
I think heat shields would help also to deflect heat from my ARH headers but don't have the skills to make anything like that - the stock headers had shields. Headers don't help to reduce engine bay temps.
And even with all of that - I ran 220-230 on a trip back from Dallas. It was 106 degrees that day. In order to keep the temps from going higher I backed my mph down from 75 mph to 65 mph. At 75 mph with 3.73 gears I was right at about 2500 rpm. I have an a4 with a Yank converter with lockup.
Tip: As a test, point a temp gun into the cavity between the condensor and the radiator with the AC on and it will shock you.
07-31-2012, 11:05 AM
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That's why i was thinking of replacing the oem condenser with a smaller unit and mount it somewhere else than right infront of the radiator... Anyone used an oil cooler as A/C condenser?
07-31-2012, 11:34 AM
#16
I considered your idea too - when I first published my two puller fan idea back in 2006 on this forum. At the time there were a lot of naysayers about my idea. But now, it's pretty much accepted that ATI's single fan solution isn't up to the task and that two puller fans are required.
New location for the AC condensor - the back side of the FMIC.
Although we would drawing discharged heated air from the back side of the FMIC, I still think it would be the best location for the AC condensor. And if placed there it could be even oversized which IMO would make the AC more efficient.
It certainly would get enough air through the grille - Camaro or Pontiac grilles. However its air source would be heated rather than ambient compared to its current location.
If the AC condensor were placed there, I think all that would be required would be to add additional length to the ac lines to reach its new location.
With the AC condensor placed at least a foot or more ahead of the radiator, I think discharged air from the condensor would more readily be displaced into the atmossphere rather than into the radiator. In fact, the shrouding could be reinserted which would almost stop it completely from getting to the radiator. That being the case, air drawn into the radiator cavity would be ambient air and the two puller fans and perhaps even a stock LT1 radiator would be more than adequate to keep the coolant at reasonable temps.
But I know nothing about how an AC system works. Adding additional length to the lines going to the AC condensor might be a no - no.
New location for the AC condensor - the back side of the FMIC.
Although we would drawing discharged heated air from the back side of the FMIC, I still think it would be the best location for the AC condensor. And if placed there it could be even oversized which IMO would make the AC more efficient.
It certainly would get enough air through the grille - Camaro or Pontiac grilles. However its air source would be heated rather than ambient compared to its current location.
If the AC condensor were placed there, I think all that would be required would be to add additional length to the ac lines to reach its new location.
With the AC condensor placed at least a foot or more ahead of the radiator, I think discharged air from the condensor would more readily be displaced into the atmossphere rather than into the radiator. In fact, the shrouding could be reinserted which would almost stop it completely from getting to the radiator. That being the case, air drawn into the radiator cavity would be ambient air and the two puller fans and perhaps even a stock LT1 radiator would be more than adequate to keep the coolant at reasonable temps.
But I know nothing about how an AC system works. Adding additional length to the lines going to the AC condensor might be a no - no.
07-31-2012, 12:48 PM
#18
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I was thinking something like the derale oil cooler
http://inet.derale.com/clientdocs/De...talog-2009.pdf
On pages 19,20,21,22 of this catalog , if this could be used as an A/C condenser it would be awesome. Thoughts?
http://inet.derale.com/clientdocs/De...talog-2009.pdf
On pages 19,20,21,22 of this catalog , if this could be used as an A/C condenser it would be awesome. Thoughts?
07-31-2012, 01:58 PM
#19
keep in mind - start simple. A small pocket of air can cause this. These "verticle" rads are sometimes lower than the highest point in the cooling system.
Jack the front of the car HIGH up, and start the car with the rad cap off. Run it this way until the coolant gets hot, and you dont see ANY bubble coming up. This will help to get any air pockets to the radiator. If you still have a heater, also turn the heat on full blast as you do this.
Good luck!
Jack the front of the car HIGH up, and start the car with the rad cap off. Run it this way until the coolant gets hot, and you dont see ANY bubble coming up. This will help to get any air pockets to the radiator. If you still have a heater, also turn the heat on full blast as you do this.
Good luck!
07-31-2012, 02:08 PM
#20
I think the first thing you would have to check is to find out if the tubes can withstand the high pressures within the AC system. Whether or not you can solder or braze AC O-ringed pressure lines in order to get the existing inlet and outlet fittings on the tranmission cooler to hook to existing AC lines - don't know.
I have one of those kits but mine is not nearly the same size as the AC condensor. Never did install it because my fanless transmission cooler work just fine.
I recall when I measured the AC condensor that it was 23-24 inches wide and about 13 - 14 inches tall when I mounted two 12 inch pusher fans on the face of the AC condensor. So total surface area is about 300 + sq inches.
My purpose for the pusher fans on the face of the AC condensor was to help cool the condensor and also force more air into the cavity between the ac condensor and the radiator. My AC does seem to blow colder air than it used to and it's still the original system.
Trust tried my mod and it worked for him. I think he installed one 14 inch pusher fan instead of two pusher fans.
One of these days I will get around to moving the ac condensor out to the bumper area. I don't have any doubt that will solve once and for all any cooling issues.
BTW - there are many cars that do have fans on the AC condensor.
I have one of those kits but mine is not nearly the same size as the AC condensor. Never did install it because my fanless transmission cooler work just fine.
I recall when I measured the AC condensor that it was 23-24 inches wide and about 13 - 14 inches tall when I mounted two 12 inch pusher fans on the face of the AC condensor. So total surface area is about 300 + sq inches.
My purpose for the pusher fans on the face of the AC condensor was to help cool the condensor and also force more air into the cavity between the ac condensor and the radiator. My AC does seem to blow colder air than it used to and it's still the original system.
Trust tried my mod and it worked for him. I think he installed one 14 inch pusher fan instead of two pusher fans.
One of these days I will get around to moving the ac condensor out to the bumper area. I don't have any doubt that will solve once and for all any cooling issues.
BTW - there are many cars that do have fans on the AC condensor.
Last edited by dlandsvZ28; 07-31-2012 at 02:14 PM.