shrike

iTrader: (1)

Hi,
I really don't know anything about transmissions so I need your help please.
I have a 4.8 Vortec with a 1999 Camaro transmission that goes into a 1987 Brougham.

I bought the transmission used and it took a year for me to install it in the car. Now I was finally able to start the engine and the transmission does not spin in any gear. The driveshaft is not installed yet.

So the important stuff:

- the wiring for the engine was cut behind the engine so I had to re-solder every wire by following a connector diagram I found on the net. Being human it is possible I did a mistake when doing that

- The torque convertor is the used one, i might have emptied it. At the time of the installation I did not know I had to fill it prior to installing it. But since it was used and not re-built maybe it was not completely empty.

- I filled the transmission with oil and it's over full now from what the marks on the dipstick say. Oil also leaked at the tail on the transmission, where the splined shaft is to which the driveshaft mounts.

- When I installed it I think the torque convertor engaged properly since I was able to put all the screws and nothing seems to have been forced during the installation. But I removed the upper transmission cooler line and nothing comes out.

- The P\N switch is not connected to the ECM.


So is there any chance this could be an electrical issue that I could check before taking the transmission out? I think I soldered the TCC wire that goes to the ECM from the brake switch. Once again I could have done a mistake during that step.

Is it normal oil leaks at the tail of the transmission where the splined shaft is when there is too much oil in the transmission?

I started the engine and it ran maybe a total of maximum 5 minutes without the driveshaft connected. If the torque convertor was not properly engaged is this enough time to damage the pump on the transmission? Any way I could check the pump?

Anything else I should check? I am really on a tight budget so I really want to make sure I check everything before start throwing money at it.

Thanks for the help

mrvedit

If you completely remove the electrical trans connector, the trans goes into "limp mode" and starts in 3rd gear. Your problem does not sound electrical.

I don't know if the upper cooler line is the feed to the cooler (or the return), but if it is the feed and nothing comes out, then you have no oil pressure. Since you say there is plenty of fluid, then either the filter is not installed correctly (there is one right?) or the pump is not working, possibly due to incorrect converter install. Or the converter is not engaging into the pump. Before you tightened the converter to the flexplate, what was the gap between the converter's mounting pads and the flexplate?

shrike

iTrader: (1)

Thanks for the reply. Kind of aa strupid question but should the pump be circulating oil even in PARK and NEUTRAL? Does the torque convertor always spin the pump?

I am not sure about the gap between the flex plate and the TC mounting pads. I will probably have to remove the transmission and check the gap during the process.

Also the rad is new. There is the slight chance the cooler is blocked inside so I will have to check that also. But the chance of that is very small I am thinking.

Also is it normal that fluid comes out of the tail of the transmission if there is too much fluid?

mrvedit

Yes, the pump is always running when the engine is running. Yes the converter engages into the pump and always spins it.

I was wrong in my previous post - the bottom cooler line is the pressure line from the trans to the cooler; the upper is the return line to the trans. Therefore, the bottom cooler line should have pressure when the engine is running. If that has pressure but nothing is returning to the trans, then your cooler is blocked.

Fluid will come out of the tail even with normal fluid level! It lubricates the rear bushing and the slide yoke. The housing has a seal around the slide yoke to keep the oil in. I bought a slide yoke at the junk yard to seal things up when I do trans swaps and experiments. IIRC any old TH350 yoke will work for that.

You don't need to remove the trans to check the gap - just the starter motor. Remove the three converter bolts. Push the converter into the trans as far as it goes. Using drill bits or taped up washers, figure out how much gap there is between the converter mounting pads and the flexplate. It should be between 1/16" and 3/16". Over 1/4" indicates that the converter might pull out of the pump and lose pressure.

shrike

iTrader: (1)

Thank you very much!
I will check the gap next Sunday and also my trans cooler and let you know what happens.

shrike

iTrader: (1)

I just removed the starter and the suspicion I had for the last couple of days (and that I was hoping for) revealed to be true. I forgot to install the three bolts that fasten the flexplate to the torque convertor. I also measured the distance and I am able to slide a 3/16 drill bit between the flexplate and the mounting pads without much play left . So I think I am ok for that. I spin the convertor and it doesn't go more inside than it already is.
So I am hoping the transmission will be good (since it was used).

Now I have to find three bolts. I probably have some 8.8, I just have to do a reasearch to see if that is ok as strength.
I also need to empty a bit of oil but since the upper cooler line is disconnectecd I am thinking I can start the engine and let some fluid come out through that line.

Thanks again for the help!

mrvedit

Glad to have pointed you in the right direction; glad to hear it looks solved.
IMHO, 8.8 are plenty strong, but important to put red loctite on them.
See my post #3 on this thread:

https://ls1tech.com/forums/automatic...ter-bolts.html

Post #14 gives the correct length from a sponsor:
"correct bolts are 12mm long with stock flexplate 16mm with SFI flexplate"

Sounds like your gap is on the high-side of OK, but OK.

shrike

iTrader: (1)

Thanks for the link.
Before reading I checked to make sure my bolts are not too long, I had 1 inch long bolts on hand. But I got confused when tightening the bolts, the TC came out a bit , to sit flush on the flex plate. I thought that wasn't right so I wanted to do a bit more reasearch to make sure this is ok or not, so your link is very good info. Now I understand it is normal to come out by a maximum of 3/16s. But I still want to put a washer between the flexplate and the TC when mounting these bolts. I'll also get some shorter bolts as you say.

Cheers!

Matei

mrvedit

Glad you understand that the converter is pulled out of the trans by the amount of the gap. Bolt length isn't critical, as long as it doesn't bottom out in the converter before the flex plate is fully torqued. But 1" sounds way too long. Also, these are metric fine-thread. Bolts need to be same length/weight, washers need to be same thickness/weight to keep things balanced.

Putting washers on takes just a bit more care. If you tighten the first two bolts too much, you won't be able to fit the washer into the next/last one. If you keep the bolts too loose, they will hit the back of the block when you turn the crank.

Good luck.

shrike

iTrader: (1)

I never thought about the bolts and washers needing to be same weight for balance purposes. But it makes sense considering the rotational speed and the distance from the center.
I will follow these instructions.

Thanks fo taking the time to thoroughly explain to me what I needed to know and more...

Matei

shrike

iTrader: (1)

So I finally was able to put the washers after half a day of fiddling under the car. I have no lift, the car sits on four wheels.

I think the gap was 1\4 inch, I put .070 washers so it should be ok for the gap

But I do have a problem and I don't know what it is, maybe you can help me with that also.

When I was putting the washers and spinning the flywheel with the torque convertor attached to it, I would feel it locking as if the head of the bolts would grab onto something. I tried forcing it ( I know it is not good to force things) but it would not make one complete turn. I was still able to install all three bolts. I thought maybe the transmission should be in Neutral instead of Park for it to spin freely (once again the drive shaft is not installed). In neutral it worked, the transmission was spinning without anything blocking.
I started the engine and the gear selector goes through all the gears but once I try putting it in park it makes a grinding noise, similar to a starter when you want to start the engine but it is already on.


Also there is no fluid coming out of the cooler or from the disconnected line but the transmission seems to spin now. I did not run it for long because I also have a coolant leak from the heater valve. Fluid level is more than full.

So the two questions are:

How come the transmission spins but no fluid comes out?
What could possibly make that grinding noise when I put the transmission into Park?

Thanks

mantycarguy

Are you putting the brake on before you try to shift into park? If not the grinding you are hearing is the parking pawl trying to stop the geartrain assembly. You must apply the brake to keep this from happening.

shrike

iTrader: (1)

good point. I think I was not applying the brake. I will check again.
Thanks for the reply

shrike

iTrader: (1)

I tried it again, applying pressure on the pedal brake and it still does it. I start it in neutral and when I try putting it in park I get that noise and I think I can feel it through the gear lever, same as trying to start an engine that is already on.

I swapped the gear selector hardware on the 4L60E with the one that was on the 200R4. But I don't really see what that would have to do with it.

I have the impression whatever is interfereing is closer to the front of the transmission (closer to the torque convertor) than the tail (where the parking pawl is if I am not mistaken.
And as I said I am able to spin the torque convertor almost one full turn before it locks.

shrike

iTrader: (1)

Ok I think I am a bit confused.
I think you are right.
I was afraid to start it in park. But if I do start it in park there is no problem. I can get it out of park also without any noise. When I try putting it back then I get that noise.
Could it be that because the drive shaft is not connected there is not enough load on the transmission so it keeps on spinning when going to park because of the fluid viscosity? And hence the noise?

So in order to spin the Torque convertor to remove or install the 3 bolts attaching it to the flexplate the transmission needs to be in neutral? I thought it should also spin in park.

mrvedit

No, the trans can be in any position to spin the converter. Think about it - when you are in Park, the engine is running and therefore the converter is spinning and since it should be engaged in the trans' pump, there should be fluid pressure in the pump.
If you have no fluid pressure, e.g. nothing coming out of the cooling lines, then either the converter is not fully engaged into the trans or the pump is defective.
Dump question - you did install a LS-compatible converter and not one for an LT1 engine and/or 700R4 trans.

pdsq98gt

Do you have a driveshaft installed yet. If not you're probably hearing the park pawl grinding on the park gear since the output shaft was spinning. Stepping on the brakes won't stop it from spinning if there's no driveshaft.

mrvedit

Right.
Also without a driveshaft, or at least a yoke installed, the trans would leak fluid like crazy.

shrike

iTrader: (1)

No, the drive shaft is not installed yet. I thought stepping on the brakes might activate a switch inside the transmission. I know it does activate the TCC so that's why I thought maybe the computer gives a signal to the transmission

shrike

iTrader: (1)

It didn't actually leak any more fluid since the last time!
So maybe that's why there is no fluid coming out of the cooler line.
I will check more into it after I adjust the pinion angle and have the driveshaft modified so it fits.
But that will probaby happen after the holidays