Various questions for tuners...
04-26-2013, 09:01 PM
#1
Various questions for tuners... I have a few issues that I would like advice on:
1. Do AFR's at 35-55% throttle matter? any time I ease into boost I am getting high (13-14) afr... My tuner says it doesnt matter unless I am above 60% throttle which is what he has set the WOT tune to kick in at, but I still worry about those high afr's when I am seeing 5-6 PSI.
2. I get a hickup seemingly randomly when the turbo is just starting to spool, feels like the car runs out of fuel, but that shouldnt be the case.... it last for just a split second, almost completely cuts out, too fast to watch afr.
3. Just today I started running lean on lower boost levels (8.5 psi). Any ideas what would cause it to start running lean on boost levels that have never been a problem before? If anything it should be running richer with warmer temps than its ever seen, right?
Thanks for your help.
1. Do AFR's at 35-55% throttle matter? any time I ease into boost I am getting high (13-14) afr... My tuner says it doesnt matter unless I am above 60% throttle which is what he has set the WOT tune to kick in at, but I still worry about those high afr's when I am seeing 5-6 PSI.
2. I get a hickup seemingly randomly when the turbo is just starting to spool, feels like the car runs out of fuel, but that shouldnt be the case.... it last for just a split second, almost completely cuts out, too fast to watch afr.
3. Just today I started running lean on lower boost levels (8.5 psi). Any ideas what would cause it to start running lean on boost levels that have never been a problem before? If anything it should be running richer with warmer temps than its ever seen, right?
Thanks for your help.
04-26-2013, 09:41 PM
#3
TECH Fanatic
I have a few issues that I would like advice on:
1. Do AFR's at 35-55% throttle matter? any time I ease into boost I am getting high (13-14) afr... My tuner says it doesnt matter unless I am above 60% throttle which is what he has set the WOT tune to kick in at, but I still worry about those high afr's when I am seeing 5-6 PSI.
Yes, they absolutely do. You can burn a piston or break a ring land at any throttle % if you are lean. Your tuner is essentially saying that he set your PE (power enrichment) to kick in above 60%, so you are relying on your fuel trims (LTFT's) to add fuel. This is really bad. You can get away with this on a supercharged application where boost is directly correlated to engine speed, but this is not the case on a turbo. Load will increase boost independent of RPM or throttle % and there is no way to compensate for this...which is what you're seeing.
Again, this is a really bad setup.
2. I get a hickup seemingly randomly when the turbo is just starting to spool, feels like the car runs out of fuel, but that shouldnt be the case.... it last for just a split second, almost completely cuts out, too fast to watch afr.
Most likely cannot add enough fuel in total or in time and is leaning out. Your VE maps cannot read boost and MAF is most likely way off, so when you get into boost your O2 sensors go lean and tell the PCM to add fuel. However, the PCM can only add so much fuel and the feedback process takes longer to execute. This is really bad also.
3. Just today I started running lean on lower boost levels (8.5 psi). Any ideas what would cause it to start running lean on boost levels that have never been a problem before? If anything it should be running richer with warmer temps than its ever seen, right?
Most likely fuel pump is going would be my guess. If you have the OE pump, step up to at least a DW301 in tank pump. Man, in all honesty, you have a hacked tune. I don't know where you are, but I would get with a vendor and see about having them get you straight. Or, you can drop the coin and get the software and learn yourself. You REALLY need a COS that is a SD (MAP only) rather than using the blended MAF. The SD tune will have BE (boost enrichment) independent of PE and will be much safer and more responsive...and safer. You're on borrowed time with your current tune.
Edit: Saw that you have a Walboro 400 in tank pump. It's most likely too big for our bucket and has reached its end of life. Areomotive will not warranty its high capacity pump in the V1 b/c they say the jet pump cannot support it and it locks up. I'd be very careful.
1. Do AFR's at 35-55% throttle matter? any time I ease into boost I am getting high (13-14) afr... My tuner says it doesnt matter unless I am above 60% throttle which is what he has set the WOT tune to kick in at, but I still worry about those high afr's when I am seeing 5-6 PSI.
Yes, they absolutely do. You can burn a piston or break a ring land at any throttle % if you are lean. Your tuner is essentially saying that he set your PE (power enrichment) to kick in above 60%, so you are relying on your fuel trims (LTFT's) to add fuel. This is really bad. You can get away with this on a supercharged application where boost is directly correlated to engine speed, but this is not the case on a turbo. Load will increase boost independent of RPM or throttle % and there is no way to compensate for this...which is what you're seeing.
Again, this is a really bad setup.
2. I get a hickup seemingly randomly when the turbo is just starting to spool, feels like the car runs out of fuel, but that shouldnt be the case.... it last for just a split second, almost completely cuts out, too fast to watch afr.
Most likely cannot add enough fuel in total or in time and is leaning out. Your VE maps cannot read boost and MAF is most likely way off, so when you get into boost your O2 sensors go lean and tell the PCM to add fuel. However, the PCM can only add so much fuel and the feedback process takes longer to execute. This is really bad also.
3. Just today I started running lean on lower boost levels (8.5 psi). Any ideas what would cause it to start running lean on boost levels that have never been a problem before? If anything it should be running richer with warmer temps than its ever seen, right?
Most likely fuel pump is going would be my guess. If you have the OE pump, step up to at least a DW301 in tank pump. Man, in all honesty, you have a hacked tune. I don't know where you are, but I would get with a vendor and see about having them get you straight. Or, you can drop the coin and get the software and learn yourself. You REALLY need a COS that is a SD (MAP only) rather than using the blended MAF. The SD tune will have BE (boost enrichment) independent of PE and will be much safer and more responsive...and safer. You're on borrowed time with your current tune.
Edit: Saw that you have a Walboro 400 in tank pump. It's most likely too big for our bucket and has reached its end of life. Areomotive will not warranty its high capacity pump in the V1 b/c they say the jet pump cannot support it and it locks up. I'd be very careful.
Last edited by DMM; 04-26-2013 at 09:47 PM.
04-26-2013, 10:49 PM
#4
I have a few issues that I would like advice on:
1. Do AFR's at 35-55% throttle matter? any time I ease into boost I am getting high (13-14) afr... My tuner says it doesnt matter unless I am above 60% throttle which is what he has set the WOT tune to kick in at, but I still worry about those high afr's when I am seeing 5-6 PSI.
Yes, they absolutely do. You can burn a piston or break a ring land at any throttle % if you are lean. Your tuner is essentially saying that he set your PE (power enrichment) to kick in above 60%, so you are relying on your fuel trims (LTFT's) to add fuel. This is really bad. You can get away with this on a supercharged application where boost is directly correlated to engine speed, but this is not the case on a turbo. Load will increase boost independent of RPM or throttle % and there is no way to compensate for this...which is what you're seeing.
Again, this is a really bad setup.
2. I get a hickup seemingly randomly when the turbo is just starting to spool, feels like the car runs out of fuel, but that shouldnt be the case.... it last for just a split second, almost completely cuts out, too fast to watch afr.
Most likely cannot add enough fuel in total or in time and is leaning out. Your VE maps cannot read boost and MAF is most likely way off, so when you get into boost your O2 sensors go lean and tell the PCM to add fuel. However, the PCM can only add so much fuel and the feedback process takes longer to execute. This is really bad also.
3. Just today I started running lean on lower boost levels (8.5 psi). Any ideas what would cause it to start running lean on boost levels that have never been a problem before? If anything it should be running richer with warmer temps than its ever seen, right?
Most likely fuel pump is going would be my guess. If you have the OE pump, step up to at least a DW301 in tank pump. Man, in all honesty, you have a hacked tune. I don't know where you are, but I would get with a vendor and see about having them get you straight. Or, you can drop the coin and get the software and learn yourself. You REALLY need a COS that is a SD (MAP only) rather than using the blended MAF. The SD tune will have BE (boost enrichment) independent of PE and will be much safer and more responsive...and safer. You're on borrowed time with your current tune.
Edit: Saw that you have a Walboro 400 in tank pump. It's most likely too big for our bucket and has reached its end of life. Areomotive will not warranty its high capacity pump in the V1 b/c they say the jet pump cannot support it and it locks up. I'd be very careful.
1. Do AFR's at 35-55% throttle matter? any time I ease into boost I am getting high (13-14) afr... My tuner says it doesnt matter unless I am above 60% throttle which is what he has set the WOT tune to kick in at, but I still worry about those high afr's when I am seeing 5-6 PSI.
Yes, they absolutely do. You can burn a piston or break a ring land at any throttle % if you are lean. Your tuner is essentially saying that he set your PE (power enrichment) to kick in above 60%, so you are relying on your fuel trims (LTFT's) to add fuel. This is really bad. You can get away with this on a supercharged application where boost is directly correlated to engine speed, but this is not the case on a turbo. Load will increase boost independent of RPM or throttle % and there is no way to compensate for this...which is what you're seeing.
Again, this is a really bad setup.
2. I get a hickup seemingly randomly when the turbo is just starting to spool, feels like the car runs out of fuel, but that shouldnt be the case.... it last for just a split second, almost completely cuts out, too fast to watch afr.
Most likely cannot add enough fuel in total or in time and is leaning out. Your VE maps cannot read boost and MAF is most likely way off, so when you get into boost your O2 sensors go lean and tell the PCM to add fuel. However, the PCM can only add so much fuel and the feedback process takes longer to execute. This is really bad also.
3. Just today I started running lean on lower boost levels (8.5 psi). Any ideas what would cause it to start running lean on boost levels that have never been a problem before? If anything it should be running richer with warmer temps than its ever seen, right?
Most likely fuel pump is going would be my guess. If you have the OE pump, step up to at least a DW301 in tank pump. Man, in all honesty, you have a hacked tune. I don't know where you are, but I would get with a vendor and see about having them get you straight. Or, you can drop the coin and get the software and learn yourself. You REALLY need a COS that is a SD (MAP only) rather than using the blended MAF. The SD tune will have BE (boost enrichment) independent of PE and will be much safer and more responsive...and safer. You're on borrowed time with your current tune.
Edit: Saw that you have a Walboro 400 in tank pump. It's most likely too big for our bucket and has reached its end of life. Areomotive will not warranty its high capacity pump in the V1 b/c they say the jet pump cannot support it and it locks up. I'd be very careful.
Thank you very much for your information:
I am on an SD setup, in fact when it was switched to SD and the Maf was deleted is when I started seeing the hickup.
The Walbro400 is pretty new, less than 8000mi... Didnt know the bucket could cause any problems for it as long as it fit, thanks for the advice...
I'm in Denver, always open to more thoughts...
04-26-2013, 11:37 PM
#5
TECH Fanatic
Was it a HP Tuners COS or EFI Live? Do you have a copy of the tune? You should not be having the issues that you are having if you are already running a COS SD tune by a semi competent tuner. If you have your tune, you can email me to avoid posting on the boards. I'd really be interested to see what your tuner was talking about regarding the 60% throttle, maybe they deactivated the BE and are running only PE for some reason.
04-26-2013, 11:44 PM
#6
Was it a HP Tuners COS or EFI Live? Do you have a copy of the tune? You should not be having the issues that you are having if you are already running a COS SD tune by a semi competent tuner. If you have your tune, you can email me to avoid posting on the boards. I'd really be interested to see what your tuner was talking about regarding the 60% throttle, maybe they deactivated the BE and are running only PE for some reason.
04-26-2013, 11:46 PM
#7
In the tuners defense he told me I need a second walbro 400 running off a hobswitch above 8psi because its not getting enough fuel on high boost (12-13psi) no matter how much he adds and injector duty cycle is only at 70%... But that doesnt explain the new issue with lowboost or the ongoing hickup.
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04-27-2013, 12:06 AM
#8
TECH Fanatic
In the tuners defense he told me I need a second walbro 400 running off a hobswitch above 8psi because its not getting enough fuel on high boost (12-13psi) no matter how much he adds and injector duty cycle is only at 70%... But that doesnt explain the new issue with lowboost or the ongoing hickup.
Since you have an 07 with the newer PCM, the hard limit is higher than the older PCM's though. I'd be really interested in how the VE map was done since you have the equation based PCM. If your tuner didn't use the Bluecat tool, its more than likely not right.