Tunes Scheduled
08-06-2013, 09:15 AM
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Tunes Scheduled Scheduled a full tune at RPM for next Wednesday for my Maggied V. It has been previously tuned but in my opinion the car has drive-ability issues. Hope to get them worked out plus a WOT check for safety. A couple hundred on a tune seems alot cheaper than a new short block!
Kinda excited, think ill take the gopro with me!
John
Kinda excited, think ill take the gopro with me!
John
08-06-2013, 10:00 AM
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What are your other mods, headers, pulley, tstat. I'm doing some mods over the winter and looking at tuning options. What were your previous numbers? And what are you expecting this time? Thanks...
08-06-2013, 11:01 AM
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GFallen,
Here is a previous post with info...I have also added a remote fill for the heat exchanger and performed the thermister mod. I am going to do new spark plugs before next week also. Just to be sure.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/cadillac-...d-v-today.html
John
Here is a previous post with info...I have also added a remote fill for the heat exchanger and performed the thermister mod. I am going to do new spark plugs before next week also. Just to be sure.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/cadillac-...d-v-today.html
John
08-07-2013, 07:53 AM
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New TR6's in. Also picked up a new fuel filter for peace of mind. Tomorrow im going to finally install the D2 coil overs I've had for a while, so I will throw in the fuel filter while its on the lift.
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08-14-2013, 05:33 PM
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Ok, Made it home. I must say, I am not sure how I am feeling right now. Very mixed to say the least. So the news you most care about first. Car ended up with 456 hp and 464 tq with around an 11.8 A/F ratio. Max boost was 5.73 lbs. Unfortunately that is down from 478/472 on the initial pull. According to RPM the car was really lean and the timing was way high. To quote them "I dont know how it has survived this long." Well all I can say is...its been tuned the way it was for several year and many many thousand miles. Maybe it was a time bomb, I dont know.
So secondly the things you might not care about to much but mattered to me. First of all the one guy at RPM that I met was nice enough but to be honest end of the day I did not walk away from the process very satisfied. I walked in and said high, I told him who I was and he said cool ill need your keys. Then promptly took me to the waiting room and said he would come and get me in a bit. He never said a single thing about what they intended to do, what I should expect etc. He never asked what exactly I wanted or anything like that. I had previously told him on the phone that I was interested in WOT tuning but wanted the whole rpm range(driving tune) massaged for better drive ability. In particular idle speed when I push in the clutch to shift gears. The car doesnt idle down so when you let out the clutch in the next gear the car jerks. Anyhow, after a little while and hearing a dyno pull I went out and asked if I could go back in the shop and watch. He said no, no one goes back there(pretty sure i saw a video from jaybird a few weeks ago back there). Then 90 minutes or so later he comes and gets me and says its all done. Tells me how jacked the tune was and then shows me the attached paper. He tells me they straightened out the timing and A/F ratio. Then kinda adds that I lost almost 20hp in the process, ough sorry. Then he says...that will be $600. Then I asked about IATs? He said, I dont know. I will find out. He sits at the computer for about 30 second and then replies...they started out x and went to x. Think he said 106 and 121? I was just surprised how he got that info in 30 seconds? Possibly he chatted with the tuner in the back? So I asked...what about drive ability? Did the mystery tuner do anything about that. He replies ough yeah thats all taken care of. So curiously I brought up the fact that in my (limited) tuning experience. A car needs to be driven and data taken while the car is under different loads and throttle positions for the tuner to fill in the graphs that make the car drive better. So how did he do that without driving it(which im sure he didnt). His reply was...ough, he can do that on the dyno. So I pay and not more then a mile away from the shop I can tell it drives no better at all. I think about turning around and going back. But to be honest I was pretty sure he wouldnt give a ****. I could be wrong, though so I will give them a call tomorrow and see what he has to say. I have a feeling the reply will be...ough thats how they act with a cam and a blower.
So im not saying they didnt fix my tune and it wasnt bad. But in my opinion the experience wasnt nearly what I expected. It was very unpersonnel and for $600 for barley 2 hours work I think I should practically get a hand job(fluffer in the waiting area
)!
Sorry for the slight rant...anyhow, So the million dollar question. Are my numbers where they should be for a stock 6.0 long block with a comp gt2-3 cam, CAI, stock Maggie, full exhaust including kooks SS headers, high flow cats and a Corsa cat back.
What does a stock 6.0 put down to the wheels?
John
So secondly the things you might not care about to much but mattered to me. First of all the one guy at RPM that I met was nice enough but to be honest end of the day I did not walk away from the process very satisfied. I walked in and said high, I told him who I was and he said cool ill need your keys. Then promptly took me to the waiting room and said he would come and get me in a bit. He never said a single thing about what they intended to do, what I should expect etc. He never asked what exactly I wanted or anything like that. I had previously told him on the phone that I was interested in WOT tuning but wanted the whole rpm range(driving tune) massaged for better drive ability. In particular idle speed when I push in the clutch to shift gears. The car doesnt idle down so when you let out the clutch in the next gear the car jerks. Anyhow, after a little while and hearing a dyno pull I went out and asked if I could go back in the shop and watch. He said no, no one goes back there(pretty sure i saw a video from jaybird a few weeks ago back there). Then 90 minutes or so later he comes and gets me and says its all done. Tells me how jacked the tune was and then shows me the attached paper. He tells me they straightened out the timing and A/F ratio. Then kinda adds that I lost almost 20hp in the process, ough sorry. Then he says...that will be $600. Then I asked about IATs? He said, I dont know. I will find out. He sits at the computer for about 30 second and then replies...they started out x and went to x. Think he said 106 and 121? I was just surprised how he got that info in 30 seconds? Possibly he chatted with the tuner in the back? So I asked...what about drive ability? Did the mystery tuner do anything about that. He replies ough yeah thats all taken care of. So curiously I brought up the fact that in my (limited) tuning experience. A car needs to be driven and data taken while the car is under different loads and throttle positions for the tuner to fill in the graphs that make the car drive better. So how did he do that without driving it(which im sure he didnt). His reply was...ough, he can do that on the dyno. So I pay and not more then a mile away from the shop I can tell it drives no better at all. I think about turning around and going back. But to be honest I was pretty sure he wouldnt give a ****. I could be wrong, though so I will give them a call tomorrow and see what he has to say. I have a feeling the reply will be...ough thats how they act with a cam and a blower.
So im not saying they didnt fix my tune and it wasnt bad. But in my opinion the experience wasnt nearly what I expected. It was very unpersonnel and for $600 for barley 2 hours work I think I should practically get a hand job(fluffer in the waiting area
)!Sorry for the slight rant...anyhow, So the million dollar question. Are my numbers where they should be for a stock 6.0 long block with a comp gt2-3 cam, CAI, stock Maggie, full exhaust including kooks SS headers, high flow cats and a Corsa cat back.
What does a stock 6.0 put down to the wheels?
John
08-14-2013, 06:12 PM
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You should have went to Complete Street Performance in West Chester PA. I'm not saying that they may know more then the guys at RPM but, he lets you watch the whole time, will explain what he's doing as he's doing it if you're interested in learning, and has you drive it on the street and makes adjustments accordingly. They're tune is $300 dollars. I have no knock reduction, and have my own wideband, so I know the tune is right, and safe. I'm basing this purely on my experience with CSP. I would not be comfortable with handing over my keys to have my car tuned but, I work in the service industry, and I can understand the liability of having a customer in your shop.
Sorry to hear you had a bad experience. Great customer service can go a long way.
Sorry to hear you had a bad experience. Great customer service can go a long way.
08-14-2013, 08:17 PM
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Ok, Made it home. I must say, I am not sure how I am feeling right now. Very mixed to say the least. So the news you most care about first. Car ended up with 456 hp and 464 tq with around an 11.8 A/F ratio. Max boost was 5.73 lbs. Unfortunately that is down from 478/472 on the initial pull. According to RPM the car was really lean and the timing was way high. To quote them "I dont know how it has survived this long." Well all I can say is...its been tuned the way it was for several year and many many thousand miles. Maybe it was a time bomb, I dont know.
So secondly the things you might not care about to much but mattered to me. First of all the one guy at RPM that I met was nice enough but to be honest end of the day I did not walk away from the process very satisfied. I walked in and said high, I told him who I was and he said cool ill need your keys. Then promptly took me to the waiting room and said he would come and get me in a bit. He never said a single thing about what they intended to do, what I should expect etc. He never asked what exactly I wanted or anything like that. I had previously told him on the phone that I was interested in WOT tuning but wanted the whole rpm range(driving tune) massaged for better drive ability. In particular idle speed when I push in the clutch to shift gears. The car doesnt idle down so when you let out the clutch in the next gear the car jerks. Anyhow, after a little while and hearing a dyno pull I went out and asked if I could go back in the shop and watch. He said no, no one goes back there(pretty sure i saw a video from jaybird a few weeks ago back there). Then 90 minutes or so later he comes and gets me and says its all done. Tells me how jacked the tune was and then shows me the attached paper. He tells me they straightened out the timing and A/F ratio. Then kinda adds that I lost almost 20hp in the process, ough sorry. Then he says...that will be $600. Then I asked about IATs? He said, I dont know. I will find out. He sits at the computer for about 30 second and then replies...they started out x and went to x. Think he said 106 and 121? I was just surprised how he got that info in 30 seconds? Possibly he chatted with the tuner in the back? So I asked...what about drive ability? Did the mystery tuner do anything about that. He replies ough yeah thats all taken care of. So curiously I brought up the fact that in my (limited) tuning experience. A car needs to be driven and data taken while the car is under different loads and throttle positions for the tuner to fill in the graphs that make the car drive better. So how did he do that without driving it(which im sure he didnt). His reply was...ough, he can do that on the dyno. So I pay and not more then a mile away from the shop I can tell it drives no better at all. I think about turning around and going back. But to be honest I was pretty sure he wouldnt give a ****. I could be wrong, though so I will give them a call tomorrow and see what he has to say. I have a feeling the reply will be...ough thats how they act with a cam and a blower.
So im not saying they didnt fix my tune and it wasnt bad. But in my opinion the experience wasnt nearly what I expected. It was very unpersonnel and for $600 for barley 2 hours work I think I should practically get a hand job(fluffer in the waiting area)!
Sorry for the slight rant...anyhow, So the million dollar question. Are my numbers where they should be for a stock 6.0 long block with a comp gt2-3 cam, CAI, stock Maggie, full exhaust including kooks SS headers, high flow cats and a Corsa cat back.
What does a stock 6.0 put down to the wheels?
John
So secondly the things you might not care about to much but mattered to me. First of all the one guy at RPM that I met was nice enough but to be honest end of the day I did not walk away from the process very satisfied. I walked in and said high, I told him who I was and he said cool ill need your keys. Then promptly took me to the waiting room and said he would come and get me in a bit. He never said a single thing about what they intended to do, what I should expect etc. He never asked what exactly I wanted or anything like that. I had previously told him on the phone that I was interested in WOT tuning but wanted the whole rpm range(driving tune) massaged for better drive ability. In particular idle speed when I push in the clutch to shift gears. The car doesnt idle down so when you let out the clutch in the next gear the car jerks. Anyhow, after a little while and hearing a dyno pull I went out and asked if I could go back in the shop and watch. He said no, no one goes back there(pretty sure i saw a video from jaybird a few weeks ago back there). Then 90 minutes or so later he comes and gets me and says its all done. Tells me how jacked the tune was and then shows me the attached paper. He tells me they straightened out the timing and A/F ratio. Then kinda adds that I lost almost 20hp in the process, ough sorry. Then he says...that will be $600. Then I asked about IATs? He said, I dont know. I will find out. He sits at the computer for about 30 second and then replies...they started out x and went to x. Think he said 106 and 121? I was just surprised how he got that info in 30 seconds? Possibly he chatted with the tuner in the back? So I asked...what about drive ability? Did the mystery tuner do anything about that. He replies ough yeah thats all taken care of. So curiously I brought up the fact that in my (limited) tuning experience. A car needs to be driven and data taken while the car is under different loads and throttle positions for the tuner to fill in the graphs that make the car drive better. So how did he do that without driving it(which im sure he didnt). His reply was...ough, he can do that on the dyno. So I pay and not more then a mile away from the shop I can tell it drives no better at all. I think about turning around and going back. But to be honest I was pretty sure he wouldnt give a ****. I could be wrong, though so I will give them a call tomorrow and see what he has to say. I have a feeling the reply will be...ough thats how they act with a cam and a blower.
So im not saying they didnt fix my tune and it wasnt bad. But in my opinion the experience wasnt nearly what I expected. It was very unpersonnel and for $600 for barley 2 hours work I think I should practically get a hand job(fluffer in the waiting area
)!Sorry for the slight rant...anyhow, So the million dollar question. Are my numbers where they should be for a stock 6.0 long block with a comp gt2-3 cam, CAI, stock Maggie, full exhaust including kooks SS headers, high flow cats and a Corsa cat back.
What does a stock 6.0 put down to the wheels?
John
Last edited by JayBirdWs6; 08-15-2013 at 09:22 AM.
08-14-2013, 10:48 PM
#16
It was really really lean!! It prolly didnt have any timing at all for it to have survived that long... Idk man I'd have someone else do the tune. Your afr's are spot on but ill bet they have the timing way low. It's up to you wether you want them to add some timing or up the boost and have someone else tune it. As far as the hanging idle during gradual shifts.. That's also in the tune.
With all that said you have plenty of room to grow in the boost dept. an over driven balancer would pick up about 2.5psi and you'll be right on the line of the stock Maggie HX but on the safer side
With all that said you have plenty of room to grow in the boost dept. an over driven balancer would pick up about 2.5psi and you'll be right on the line of the stock Maggie HX but on the safer side
08-14-2013, 11:08 PM
#18
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Dang...sorry to hear that. I have never heard of RPM not taking care of someone to the point if being completely satisfied. Hopefully Fran will get involved here and make things right as he is active here.
As far as it losing power...the old BEHE tune no doubt was very lean since he doesn't even know how to set the injector data correctly, and rapes the PE while leaving MAF and VE completely stock. Also, on mine and a few others, max timing in boost was 24*...which is even over the stock NA value of 22*. He did this on a turbo GTO as well, it went boom. Three times.
Don't get me wrong, lean and lots of timing will pull like a Frieght train, but not for very long. My guess is that the old owner only did second gear pulls etc so that it only ran lean for very short durations at a time. A long highway pull through 4th would cause big trouble.
I know mine idled like **** cold, but pulled incredibly to redline. Only reason I bought HP Tuners was for another project and I had an issue during normal driving, felt like a motor mount was broken. Turned out to be entering PE at 18% throttle b/c of the hacked tune.
I would not get discouraged. I think you're right where you should be power wise and I think the cam is throwing you off here. The LPE GT2/3 is nearly identicle to the OE cam, I don't know why anyone would install it in our application...or even buy it over a 02-04 Z06 cam.
Keep your head up man and beat on that thing!
As far as it losing power...the old BEHE tune no doubt was very lean since he doesn't even know how to set the injector data correctly, and rapes the PE while leaving MAF and VE completely stock. Also, on mine and a few others, max timing in boost was 24*...which is even over the stock NA value of 22*. He did this on a turbo GTO as well, it went boom. Three times.
Don't get me wrong, lean and lots of timing will pull like a Frieght train, but not for very long. My guess is that the old owner only did second gear pulls etc so that it only ran lean for very short durations at a time. A long highway pull through 4th would cause big trouble.
I know mine idled like **** cold, but pulled incredibly to redline. Only reason I bought HP Tuners was for another project and I had an issue during normal driving, felt like a motor mount was broken. Turned out to be entering PE at 18% throttle b/c of the hacked tune.
I would not get discouraged. I think you're right where you should be power wise and I think the cam is throwing you off here. The LPE GT2/3 is nearly identicle to the OE cam, I don't know why anyone would install it in our application...or even buy it over a 02-04 Z06 cam.
Keep your head up man and beat on that thing!
08-15-2013, 04:43 AM
#19
Jeff Lowry is a local MD tuner widely respected for tuning both FI and NA LS cars. He did my NA tunes.
I have heard similar complaints about RPM. I personally was put off when I called them to spec a cam an the guy wanted me to go with a MS3 clone and didn't want to have a conversation about my needs, driveability, etc.
Oh and by the way, I had Jeff lean out my AF at idle to get rid of the typical cammed car unburnt fuel smell while sitting at lights. It goes into a closed loop at idle, similar to WOT. Makes the idle sound really rough. Maybe you have/had something similar tuned into yours.
I have heard similar complaints about RPM. I personally was put off when I called them to spec a cam an the guy wanted me to go with a MS3 clone and didn't want to have a conversation about my needs, driveability, etc.
Oh and by the way, I had Jeff lean out my AF at idle to get rid of the typical cammed car unburnt fuel smell while sitting at lights. It goes into a closed loop at idle, similar to WOT. Makes the idle sound really rough. Maybe you have/had something similar tuned into yours.
08-15-2013, 06:13 AM
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Jeff Lowry and I go aaaaaway back but I dont think I'll take my car to him. He's a nice guy but my experience with him years ago..........
John I'll have to stop by sometime to check the V out and compare tunes etc.
So what's a good cam for the maggie?
John I'll have to stop by sometime to check the V out and compare tunes etc.
So what's a good cam for the maggie?
Last edited by JayBirdWs6; 08-15-2013 at 06:23 AM.