Dialing in timing on a boosted stock bottom end 5.3
10-22-2013, 09:18 PM
#1
Staging Lane
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Dialing in timing on a boosted stock bottom end 5.3 To you stock bottom end 5.3L/4.8L turbo guys. What kind of timing ramp down vs boost do you recommend with 93 octane pump gas?
Those using GM electronics with knock sensors, do you datalog knock count to help dial in the timing or just look at the plugs?
TIA.
Those using GM electronics with knock sensors, do you datalog knock count to help dial in the timing or just look at the plugs?
TIA.
10-23-2013, 05:41 AM
#2
here is what i do
i use approx 24deg of timing at 0boost, about 14deg at 14psi and i go from there, each combination is different but i have never blown one up with 14psi and 14deg.
usually i will get on a dyno, and add a degree up or down and see if it picks up power
when the car is happy in my opinion it will make like 20hp per degree, sometimes more.
each degree you add will add substantial power usually, and at some point it will only add about half, say 5-10deg.
once you hit that point and keep going you are going to get knock or break ringlands.
this is what i learned after an entire year of busting these ringlands out of the motors
it will make the power it wants, and it will tell you when its done.
you can also do the same thing at the track. checking mph gains.
i would pull plugs and look at them for spots and marks from detonation also, you can also check the strap on the end of the plug, you should have discoloration in the center of the strap, that means the timing is dead on.
other than that, do not get timing envy from the internet, and people saying they are pumping 20deg on 20lbs of boost, i dont know how they get away with that ****, because i certainly broke 20 motors chasing that stuff haha
i use approx 24deg of timing at 0boost, about 14deg at 14psi and i go from there, each combination is different but i have never blown one up with 14psi and 14deg.
usually i will get on a dyno, and add a degree up or down and see if it picks up power
when the car is happy in my opinion it will make like 20hp per degree, sometimes more.
each degree you add will add substantial power usually, and at some point it will only add about half, say 5-10deg.
once you hit that point and keep going you are going to get knock or break ringlands.
this is what i learned after an entire year of busting these ringlands out of the motors
it will make the power it wants, and it will tell you when its done.
you can also do the same thing at the track. checking mph gains.
i would pull plugs and look at them for spots and marks from detonation also, you can also check the strap on the end of the plug, you should have discoloration in the center of the strap, that means the timing is dead on.
other than that, do not get timing envy from the internet, and people saying they are pumping 20deg on 20lbs of boost, i dont know how they get away with that ****, because i certainly broke 20 motors chasing that stuff haha
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Ls7colorado (04-24-2022)
10-23-2013, 05:43 AM
#3
i tuned a friends car, stock 5.3, stock cam, pac1218 springs
its in a notch mustang with a th400 and a master power 70 turbo
on 11psi and 13deg of timing it went 10.75 @ 126 on the foot brake, he put probably 14k miles on it this year, highway pulls, burnouts, tracktime. you name it.
no issues, if that is what you are looking for, that might be a good place to start
its in a notch mustang with a th400 and a master power 70 turbo
on 11psi and 13deg of timing it went 10.75 @ 126 on the foot brake, he put probably 14k miles on it this year, highway pulls, burnouts, tracktime. you name it.
no issues, if that is what you are looking for, that might be a good place to start
10-23-2013, 07:12 PM
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here is what i do
i use approx 24deg of timing at 0boost, about 14deg at 14psi and i go from there, each combination is different but i have never blown one up with 14psi and 14deg.
usually i will get on a dyno, and add a degree up or down and see if it picks up power
when the car is happy in my opinion it will make like 20hp per degree, sometimes more.
each degree you add will add substantial power usually, and at some point it will only add about half, say 5-10deg.
once you hit that point and keep going you are going to get knock or break ringlands.
this is what i learned after an entire year of busting these ringlands out of the motors
it will make the power it wants, and it will tell you when its done.
you can also do the same thing at the track. checking mph gains.
i would pull plugs and look at them for spots and marks from detonation also, you can also check the strap on the end of the plug, you should have discoloration in the center of the strap, that means the timing is dead on.
other than that, do not get timing envy from the internet, and people saying they are pumping 20deg on 20lbs of boost, i dont know how they get away with that ****, because i certainly broke 20 motors chasing that stuff haha
i use approx 24deg of timing at 0boost, about 14deg at 14psi and i go from there, each combination is different but i have never blown one up with 14psi and 14deg.
usually i will get on a dyno, and add a degree up or down and see if it picks up power
when the car is happy in my opinion it will make like 20hp per degree, sometimes more.
each degree you add will add substantial power usually, and at some point it will only add about half, say 5-10deg.
once you hit that point and keep going you are going to get knock or break ringlands.
this is what i learned after an entire year of busting these ringlands out of the motors
it will make the power it wants, and it will tell you when its done.
you can also do the same thing at the track. checking mph gains.
i would pull plugs and look at them for spots and marks from detonation also, you can also check the strap on the end of the plug, you should have discoloration in the center of the strap, that means the timing is dead on.
other than that, do not get timing envy from the internet, and people saying they are pumping 20deg on 20lbs of boost, i dont know how they get away with that ****, because i certainly broke 20 motors chasing that stuff haha
Thanks guys.
Questions. What are you calling ****, E85?
Also if you say 14deg at 14psi, is that across the entire rpm range or do you bump it down through peak torque or add a little on the top end?
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1toofastlt1 (01-26-2020)
10-24-2013, 06:42 AM
#10
yeah **** just means really shitty gas
i call it wawa catpiss 91 octane lol and hess 91 out here is terrible compared to sunco 93.
i tune so i can safely run anyones premium gas and i use easy to get washer fluid in my methanol injection systems, this is a street car she cant high nose gasoline
i call it wawa catpiss 91 octane lol and hess 91 out here is terrible compared to sunco 93.
i tune so i can safely run anyones premium gas and i use easy to get washer fluid in my methanol injection systems, this is a street car she cant high nose gasoline
10-24-2013, 06:59 AM
#11
i run about 18-22 at idle, depends on what the car likes
cruise has 35-45 degrees in it (45 at highest vac, 35 at partial load)
then about high load 80kpa to 100 i transition from 30deg to 24 usually (some cars can take 26-30deg for the whole transition depends on the vehicle and setup, but are are generalizing here...
then about 7psi i like to see 18-20deg and around 14psi 14deg
this is a great starting point for a mild turbo setup, like 9:1 compression and a mild cam and turbo, in my opinion, its going to make power, and not tear anything up.
i attached a image let me know if you can see it, like i said, no ideal but the car will run safely unless you have crazy low or high compression or something else going on haha
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black79ta (07-16-2023)
10-24-2013, 07:49 AM
#12
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if i could summarize for you, an average out the timing i use in nearly all my builds
i run about 18-22 at idle, depends on what the car likes
cruise has 35-45 degrees in it (45 at highest vac, 35 at partial load)
then about high load 80kpa to 100 i transition from 30deg to 24 usually (some cars can take 26-30deg for the whole transition depends on the vehicle and setup, but are are generalizing here...
then about 7psi i like to see 18-20deg and around 14psi 14deg
this is a great starting point for a mild turbo setup, like 9:1 compression and a mild cam and turbo, in my opinion, its going to make power, and not tear anything up.
i attached a image let me know if you can see it, like i said, no ideal but the car will run safely unless you have crazy low or high compression or something else going on haha
i run about 18-22 at idle, depends on what the car likes
cruise has 35-45 degrees in it (45 at highest vac, 35 at partial load)
then about high load 80kpa to 100 i transition from 30deg to 24 usually (some cars can take 26-30deg for the whole transition depends on the vehicle and setup, but are are generalizing here...
then about 7psi i like to see 18-20deg and around 14psi 14deg
this is a great starting point for a mild turbo setup, like 9:1 compression and a mild cam and turbo, in my opinion, its going to make power, and not tear anything up.
i attached a image let me know if you can see it, like i said, no ideal but the car will run safely unless you have crazy low or high compression or something else going on haha
06-04-2021, 12:16 PM
#13
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I know this is an old post, but your recommended boost/timing gauge... is that for Pump 93 or E85? I am trying to get a 6.0 timing setup safe and was using this as a guide but wanted to be sure it was for 93.
06-04-2021, 12:24 PM
#14
I follow the 28 degree N/A minus 1 degree per PSI rule up to 16 PSI for E85.
Its obviously not going to net better results than a custom timing curve, but its how I always setup my base tunes to put me where I need to be to get started.
Its obviously not going to net better results than a custom timing curve, but its how I always setup my base tunes to put me where I need to be to get started.
06-04-2021, 12:32 PM
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What do you recommend for a base with 93, just looking for some recommendations on setting up a safe initial timing map with pump 93.
In Matts recommendation it has the gauge with the below. Wasnt sure if this was for E85 or pump.
24degrees @ 0psi
19deg @ 7psi
16deg @ 10psi
14deg @14psi
Thanks for the quick response!
Mike
In Matts recommendation it has the gauge with the below. Wasnt sure if this was for E85 or pump.
24degrees @ 0psi
19deg @ 7psi
16deg @ 10psi
14deg @14psi
Thanks for the quick response!
Mike
06-04-2021, 12:40 PM
#16
That's for pump gas. You can use significantly more timing with E85.
I use the same 28 N/A and 1 degree per PSI rule with E85, but I don't start taking out timing until 6 PSI. So I'll still have 28 degrees at 6 PSI, and won't hit 12 degrees until 22 PSI.
This is only how I set up my base tunes, and I adjust from there, but lots of people get away just fine with this rule on your average setup with no adjustments.
I use the same 28 N/A and 1 degree per PSI rule with E85, but I don't start taking out timing until 6 PSI. So I'll still have 28 degrees at 6 PSI, and won't hit 12 degrees until 22 PSI.
This is only how I set up my base tunes, and I adjust from there, but lots of people get away just fine with this rule on your average setup with no adjustments.
06-04-2021, 01:33 PM
#18
On The Tree
I've had KR on my turbo 4.8l w/ 10.5* of timing at 14.5 PSI ~11.0 AFR on 93 only. Reduced main spark table to 9* in the 5200-5600 columns @ 1.2g/cyl. Every setup is different but for my setup the rule of 28 is too aggressive. Keep a close eye on it.
06-04-2021, 04:17 PM
#19
I don't start with 28* on anything, thats asking for trouble. Some combos only want 21-22* at most NA and if you try to hold that out to 6-7psi on pump it aint happy.
