Wicked69

In my attempt to push the junk yard engine to a little more power and to get it to last a tad longer, I thought I would share a couple ideas and see what some of you think.

I feel pretty confident that I am understanding the Holley EFI much better. As I went through the different tables I noticed something. Holley has an area that you can ad or pull fuel and/or timing in each individual cylinder. My thought was since it almost always seems to be #5 or #7 that lets go I would adjust those cylinders. My plan is to ad 5% more fuel in those two cylinders so as to keep them from leaning any extra. I also took out 1 degree of timing for each of those cylinders. It isn't much but thought this may be the ticket to getting the most out of the engine and still allowing it to live on high boost.

I also noticed that the Holley will correct within 100 percent if you leave it that way. That is what I was doing. However, I have my fuel table almost dead on now so I have it so it will allow the addition of 25 percent more fuel but it can only pull 5% fuel from the tune instead of a 100%. This way if something goes wrong the Holley won't try to correct by pulling a ton of fuel causing the engine to go lean.

The final steps I did was to pull 20 degrees of timing at IAT's over 212 degrees and pull 20 degrees of timing at coolent temps over 200 degrees. Again the thinking is it will run dead nuts with my tune but if something goes to **** such as fuel pump, water pump, IAT sensor, the holly will pull so much timing it will just fall completely flat on a pass but at least the engine will be saved.

Okay, am I thinking about this correctly or not? Any other ideas using the Holley?

I am also adding a second fuel pump and letting the holly kick it on. It's pretty cool because you set up 3 parameters for the second pump to kick on. This way it isn't kicking on unless all three have been met. I have mine set for 11lbs of boost ( I only run 10lbs on the street), 5k rpms, and 70% throttle.

Just thinking out loud. What you think?

pwrtrip75

iTrader: (8)

For fuel pumps that are activated like this at the last second, what is the time/rpm/boost delay for when it is actually 100% on? If your RPM's are rising in milliseconds and it turns on at 5000rpms, I would think you are already redlined before its all the way on and doing anything. Would it be more effective to have it come on a lot sooner? or is this already factored in? I know it takes milliseconds to have one lean burn.

Atomic

iTrader: (37)

I turn on my second pump at 2psi and run about 20psi of boost. You want it on way before you need it.

212 IATs eh... I assume you arent running an intercooler and e85...even so, I would lower that to pull timing by around 160ish

More fuel in 5 and 7 will help, and maybe 1 less degree of timing. I have had trouble with number 8 as well.

MustangLS

iTrader: (5)

I have 1 degree pulled from 3, 5, 7 and 8. 3 & 5 lifted ring lands on me when I went lean on the spray and both 7 and 8 were melting back straps on occasion.

I thought about adding fuel but wasn't sure how it might affect the rest of the cylinders. You only have one wideband per bank or for all eight cylinders. So if you add extra fuel to 1-2 cylinders the A/F reading should go rich and with auto correct on it could pull fuel out across all cylinders. So if you run 11.5 A/F normally and you add fuel to 2 cylinders after it adjusts you could have 11.7 in 2 cylinders and 11.3 in the other 6. Not actual figures just hypothetical numbers. I don't know if the Holley takes that into account or if it's such a small amount of fuel added that it wouldn't affect it.

Wicked69

That is a good point. From my understanding is if you want 11.5 AFR, and you are off then the Holley will correct it first by adding or subtracting fuel and then ad the 5% to those two cylinders after the fact. At least that is my understanding. Maybe someone can clarify if that is correct.

On my first set up that ran 6.03s. I almost always saw 199 IAT temps are less on an 1/8th mile pass. The plugs, everything always looked fine. When I blew it up I was over 240 degrees and even then I did a bunch of other stupid stuff. I feel confident only pulling the timing at 212. Anything less than that I am fine with. The IAT sensor is measuring the air before my E85 hits it.

Thanks for the info on the other pumps. I spin the car to 6800 so figured it would kick it on before I need it. I have only been running one Holley Dominator all last year at 20psi of boost. So my second pump is purely extra safety measure. I don't really need it until I am over 20 psi and above 6500. I may drop the rpms a little. I am using 11 psi so it doesn't come on on the street and pretty much is only used on WOT pulls at the track.

Any other tricks with the Holley? Is 20 degrees too much timing to pull? Was considering just pulling 10 degrees as a fail safe.

Atomic

iTrader: (37)

I would ramp it out so it doesnt fall on its face as soon as you reach that number. Low timing will also make your EGTs go through the roof.

MustangLS

iTrader: (5)

How much timing are you running over say 5 psi? I'm running non-intercooled with E85 and I'm starting at 12* from about 4 psi and up. I read of a few that run right around 14* so I left a little buffer in mine till the fuel table is more dialed in (just got the car running 2 weeks ago).

I was going to start pulling 1* of timing for every 20* over 200-210* IAT. First I need to get some good datalogs and see what it's doing.

I-H8-RICE

just out of curiosity what are your normal coolant temps? 200 seems a bit low to pull that much timing but i like the way your thinking with this system deffinetly a neat feature.

Wicked69

Oh wow! I am way higher than that. I was running 20 degrees of timing at 20lbs of boost with NO IC. With an a2a and forged bottom end I was 23 degrees of timing at 20psi of boost. At 15lbs of boost I am 28 degrees of timing. It's worked like a charm so far. My car is very heavy. I don't think my last engine would have ever let go but at the last second at Super Chevy I added about 4 lbs of boost at the last second with no tune adjustment. I zerod out all the timing being pulled going for the Hero pass. lol. Even with all that it made a 3 hr drive, 2 hrs idling in line, a 30 mile cruise, and 2 -1/4 mile passes before it blew up. I was also 11.1 on the compression that time around.

MustangLS

iTrader: (5)

Most of the intercooled turbo E85 LS vehicles around here run 18-20* tops. Running that much timing in your car I'd say start pulling timing around 190-200* IAT's, maybe 2* or so every 20* so if it pegged you would be down to 10*

I'm playing it safe with my tune for now as I have a JY patched together engine that is just over 10:1 compression.

stevieturbo

it would be much better if you could impose a limp mode, or reduced rpm limit under extreme conditions such as excessive air temps or coolant temps.

Pulling 20degress of timing is huge, and whilst yes you should feel this and lift off, if you dont you risk further damage through excessive EGT's

Likewise, if you can monitor fuel pressure relative to intake manifold pressure. If the two fall outside normal parameters...force a limp mode.

71 chevy

iTrader: (18)

Holley has a fail safe ignition cut with virtually unlimited programmable parameters

Wicked 69, I'll pm you

Wicked69

That would be awesome! I greatly appreciate it.

My coolant temps rarely see even a 180 degrees because of the E85. I have never seen 195 degrees even in the summer. So that's why I pull it at 200.

I do like the idea of gradually though so EGT's down get out of controll.

LS1NOVA

iTrader: (12)

Can you post here so we all learn?

yenkomike

iTrader: (2)

can this be programmed to turn on a added light on the dash. like a second shift light or something smaller that way you don't need to be so aggressive with the timing .? or how about a hard limit on iats, afr,and oil pressure that activates a 2step ignition cutout but only at 100%tps or something. just a thought.

71 chevy

iTrader: (18)

I believe you can add a warning output to any failsafe you program but im not 100% sure.

HOWEVER , the holley already has a built in caution/ warning for many measured events,

tps
boost
oil pressure
fuel pressure
battery voltage
rpm
speed
air temp
coolant temp

these can all be programmed and tied to one output and connected to a light. i have mine connected to a super bright white LED,with a diode of course.

make sure you put the light where it will blind the driver if it goes off because i put mine to the side and it is totally invisible right before, during, or right after a pass. it once came on for water temp and i didnt even see it till i had pulled back in the pits.

the fail safes can be programmed to only be active above a certain tps anything. i dont use them anymore but when i did, it would typically only be active above 4000 rpms, 5 psi, and 85 % tps

00Wildcat

The first thing that came to mind reading the original post is: Any bearing related failure on the rear cylinders is most likely due to worn lifter bores. As the lifters/bores wear, more oil leaks past them reducing the volume of oil going to the rear cylinders. This is the main oiling system design flaw of the oem block. 20* of timing pulled seems excessive. my timing under wot/boost maxs out around 20*. Haven't hurt an engine yet. I plan to get out to Sikeston a couple of times this year.