best boost block
03-13-2014, 07:46 AM
#1
best boost block I am getting ready to order my boosted motor , and I can't decided witch motor to build . I was thinking I wanted a 6L iron block in a 390 or 408 form . Now the engine asked me if I would preferred a ls3 416 . I would use less boost to hit my goals of 700 at the wheels . what is your opinion on using a ls3 for boost over a iron 6L block with a Novi 2200 ?
03-13-2014, 01:51 PM
#6
^^^
For 700whp, I'd get whatever the cheapest possible running junkyard motor I could find is, and boost that. Worried about it blowing up? Just get one with 4th gen internals. No need for a custom motor, stroker, blah blah blah.
But hey, its your money. The difference between a 408 with LS3 heads and a 416 with LS3 heads is probably going to be nothing more than weight.
For 700whp, I'd get whatever the cheapest possible running junkyard motor I could find is, and boost that. Worried about it blowing up? Just get one with 4th gen internals. No need for a custom motor, stroker, blah blah blah.
But hey, its your money. The difference between a 408 with LS3 heads and a 416 with LS3 heads is probably going to be nothing more than weight.
03-14-2014, 09:32 PM
#7
Why run a junkyard motor and have to worry about buying a new one if it breaks? Everything can break as well as a built forged setup. Why worry about being left with some broke **** and having to fix it. Buy quality parts once around and do a quality build and enjoy the car instead.
Spend the money once and be done with it. I've never heard anyone say I wish I didn't have such a nice setup. I could use some more time fixing it.
Spend the money once and be done with it. I've never heard anyone say I wish I didn't have such a nice setup. I could use some more time fixing it.
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03-14-2014, 09:43 PM
#8
Because if it blows, its $300 to replace. If a forged motor with good heads blows, you're out a forged rotating assembly, possible a good set of heads, and have to start all over.
If the junkyard motor blows, buy another motor, don't even take the valve covers off. Toss it in and get another year or two out of it. You're less likely to hold it back if you're not worried so much about it. I've blown a $5500 forged bottom end before. I think the timing chain snapped, but it was possible a bad injector hydrolocked a cylinder. Timing chain broke, pistons beat the **** out of the valves, $2600 cylinder heads were ruined, rod broke and shoved some holes in the block. One piston smacked the cylinder head pretty damn hard.
Saddest part? I was making about half the power I should be able to make on this 100% bone stock long block 5.3. After I seen someone run low 8's on a stock bottom end, and another car run a flat 5 (knocking on 4's) in the 1/8th mile on a stock bottom end 5.3, I'm not going to waste my money again. LS motors can handle the abuse in stock form, so why spend $5000+? Just because the rods aren't super-expensive Billet H-Beam forged titanium blah blah blah, doesn't mean they can't withstand the power. I've seen similarly designed forged powdered metal rods in 4-cylinders withstand 700 HP.
If the junkyard motor blows, buy another motor, don't even take the valve covers off. Toss it in and get another year or two out of it. You're less likely to hold it back if you're not worried so much about it. I've blown a $5500 forged bottom end before. I think the timing chain snapped, but it was possible a bad injector hydrolocked a cylinder. Timing chain broke, pistons beat the **** out of the valves, $2600 cylinder heads were ruined, rod broke and shoved some holes in the block. One piston smacked the cylinder head pretty damn hard.
Saddest part? I was making about half the power I should be able to make on this 100% bone stock long block 5.3. After I seen someone run low 8's on a stock bottom end, and another car run a flat 5 (knocking on 4's) in the 1/8th mile on a stock bottom end 5.3, I'm not going to waste my money again. LS motors can handle the abuse in stock form, so why spend $5000+? Just because the rods aren't super-expensive Billet H-Beam forged titanium blah blah blah, doesn't mean they can't withstand the power. I've seen similarly designed forged powdered metal rods in 4-cylinders withstand 700 HP.
03-15-2014, 01:30 AM
#9
for every one you have seen last there is another in pieces. It's nothing more than a gamble on either side but being educated and having a better safety net is not a bad thing by any means.
I say to plan for the future as 700 becomes 300 and then looking for 8-900 pretty fast. Most of these cars running that fast are much lighter than the average TA if that is what the OP has. that same drivetrain would most likely be in pieces in a heavier car.
I say to plan for the future as 700 becomes 300 and then looking for 8-900 pretty fast. Most of these cars running that fast are much lighter than the average TA if that is what the OP has. that same drivetrain would most likely be in pieces in a heavier car.
03-16-2014, 11:22 AM
#11
Get a turbo and setup your fuel system to support 1000rwhp. 700rwhp will get boring pretty quickly.
2004.5+ engines came with the LS2 style rods which are much beefier than the earlier generation. After that it comes down to price. 5.3 iron are cheapest, 5.3 alum a few hundred more, 6.0 iron a little more, 6.0 alum yet more....
Get a 4.0" bore block (6.0) or larger so you can run larger valves. Forged rods/pistons with stock crank for safety in a 6.0" block with stock LS3 heads/intake and basic upgrades (dual springs/pushrods/better cam) can make 1000rwhp with correctly sized turbo/injectors/fuel pumps. Don't waste your $ on a forged crank under 1000rwhp.
At around the magical 1000rwhp mark is the crossroad where you need to start worrying about going to an aftermarket block. Save the weight and go alum. Overbore as little as possible to retain cyl wall thickness. Many people have made 1200-1400rwhp on stock alum LS2 blocks. The sleeves start to get hairline cracks (on alum motors) over time and main caps start to walk around if you don't pin them. Any motor with a crappy tune/fuel will not last. If you can get e85 set it up for that from the get go.
2004.5+ engines came with the LS2 style rods which are much beefier than the earlier generation. After that it comes down to price. 5.3 iron are cheapest, 5.3 alum a few hundred more, 6.0 iron a little more, 6.0 alum yet more....
Get a 4.0" bore block (6.0) or larger so you can run larger valves. Forged rods/pistons with stock crank for safety in a 6.0" block with stock LS3 heads/intake and basic upgrades (dual springs/pushrods/better cam) can make 1000rwhp with correctly sized turbo/injectors/fuel pumps. Don't waste your $ on a forged crank under 1000rwhp.
At around the magical 1000rwhp mark is the crossroad where you need to start worrying about going to an aftermarket block. Save the weight and go alum. Overbore as little as possible to retain cyl wall thickness. Many people have made 1200-1400rwhp on stock alum LS2 blocks. The sleeves start to get hairline cracks (on alum motors) over time and main caps start to walk around if you don't pin them. Any motor with a crappy tune/fuel will not last. If you can get e85 set it up for that from the get go.
03-16-2014, 11:34 AM
#12
I was dining some readind about the forged crank , and that was my next question . But never mind u answered it before I asked it . I have 15000. To do my motor trans and what ever I deside no for FI , might go big cubes but would much rather do FI.
03-16-2014, 01:23 PM
#14
I'm shooting for over 700whp on a third of that budget. Don't be another one of those guys that spends his life savings and wonders why the stock short block guys are going faster.
03-16-2014, 10:18 PM
#15
I swear that read 1500.
You sound like you have a good goal and direction. Don't worry about the buy junkyard motor guys. Spend your money where you want to reach your goal. I don't worry about other peoples stuff or what they are doing with what. I know what I want and do that.
I am in the process of buying a Dart 427 and will spend more on my block then most will on a whole engine.
You sound like you have a good goal and direction. Don't worry about the buy junkyard motor guys. Spend your money where you want to reach your goal. I don't worry about other peoples stuff or what they are doing with what. I know what I want and do that.
I am in the process of buying a Dart 427 and will spend more on my block then most will on a whole engine.
03-17-2014, 12:11 AM
#17
Really its based on whatever you wanna do. Personally I'm using a 6.0l iron block on my motor. I know its another 80lbs and blah blah blah but I'm also planning my build to reach 1000+ horse power with a street car. No weight removed a/c still intact spare tire in the trunk and full interior. May seem dumb to some people but that's my goal and what I want. Also realisticly the money you have set aside is not bad for a full build. As long as you doing a lot of the work yourself. I'm going to have roughly 18,500 into mime and that's me getting a lot of stuff at cost because I work at a shop. But that also doesn't include a cage or a set of wheels either. So realisticly if your goal is 700 go with the 416. Lighter and will easily make your goals. But if some day you really wanna turn it up which happens to us all I would go with an item block. Plenty of people making well last 1000 on a 6.0l iron block.