Need advice on building a 4th Gen Road Race Camaro
05-24-2014, 08:20 AM
#1
TECH Enthusiast
Thread Starter
iTrader: (17)
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Southern NJ
Posts: 634
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Need advice on building a 4th Gen Road Race Camaro I'm thinking about building my 02 Camaro for road racing.
Currently the car has no suspension so I can do what ever I want.
The car has a 8 point cage that I plan to make into a 12 point to stiffen it up.
I am looking for input about shocks, springs, sway bars, steering rack (power vs non) and rate, wheel size and tires, etc.
Any input would be helpful.
Thanks.
Currently the car has no suspension so I can do what ever I want.
The car has a 8 point cage that I plan to make into a 12 point to stiffen it up.
I am looking for input about shocks, springs, sway bars, steering rack (power vs non) and rate, wheel size and tires, etc.
Any input would be helpful.
Thanks.
05-25-2014, 09:52 AM
#3
You don't need any more cage to "stiffen the car". Take the "six piston Wilwoods" off the rear and put stock brakes back on. Or pony up for a de coupled torque arm.
What is your experience level?
All those questions can be answered using the search function.
What is your experience level?
All those questions can be answered using the search function.
05-25-2014, 07:39 PM
#4
TECH Enthusiast
Thread Starter
iTrader: (17)
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Southern NJ
Posts: 634
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I don't have any road race experience.
I'm building the car for fun and I would like to try some open road racing, like the Silver State or Big Bend events.
Not sure what HPDE is.
What is a decoupled torque arm?
Thanks
Craig
I'm building the car for fun and I would like to try some open road racing, like the Silver State or Big Bend events.
Not sure what HPDE is.
What is a decoupled torque arm?
Thanks
Craig
05-25-2014, 11:30 PM
#5
HPDE = High Performance Driver's Education. HPDE or "track day" is a more specific way of referring to the "road racing" many of us do. The reason we don't call it "road racing" is because you're not racing anyone out there on the track. You're there to learn to be a better driver and you get to do it behind the wheel of your own car. No one finishes first or gets a trophy -- if you get home safely, the car is in one piece and you leave the event as a better driver, it was a big success.
If that's what you're going for, then here are my thoughts:
These cars are already capable performers on the track. As a beginner, you, the driver, will be the car's single greatest limitation on the track.
If you take a car in stock form, here's what you should address before your first track day:
1. Fresh oil change (add an extra quart).
2. Upgrade your front brake pads to something that can handle the higher temps you'll see on track. Leave the stock pads in the rear. Replace your existing brake fluid with DOT 4 fluid (ATE Super, Motul 600, etc) to handle the heat.
3. You have good tires (plenty of tread, not old and brittle, etc). Street radials are fine and are actually great for beginners because they howl when you get closer to their limit.
It will eventually make sense to start doing things to make the car handle better, however I'd recommend you get a few days under your belt before you go "all in" on the mods.
If that's what you're going for, then here are my thoughts:
These cars are already capable performers on the track. As a beginner, you, the driver, will be the car's single greatest limitation on the track.
If you take a car in stock form, here's what you should address before your first track day:
1. Fresh oil change (add an extra quart).
2. Upgrade your front brake pads to something that can handle the higher temps you'll see on track. Leave the stock pads in the rear. Replace your existing brake fluid with DOT 4 fluid (ATE Super, Motul 600, etc) to handle the heat.
3. You have good tires (plenty of tread, not old and brittle, etc). Street radials are fine and are actually great for beginners because they howl when you get closer to their limit.
It will eventually make sense to start doing things to make the car handle better, however I'd recommend you get a few days under your belt before you go "all in" on the mods.
05-26-2014, 02:24 AM
#6
^ +1
I'd also add to that list a complete go through of your cooling system. Blow out the fins of your radiator, check for leaks, etc.
Most people run a quart or so over to keep oil pressures up and prevent starvation in long high speed bends.
Turn one PS pump or send stocker in to get revalved and cooler. Its a very common problem.
Stock suspension is ok, I'd recommend to start on NT05 rubber, awesome grip for the price.
If you have tons of money to throw at it go ahead an do a full suspension. I had full suspension upgrades before I did my first HPDE. After that I was hooked and so the money pit began. If you are doing this for fun, save yourself money on early suspension mods; pads, tires, oil changes, breakdowns get expensive. I've overhauled my engine twice now, upgraded all fasteners, oil pan baffle, remote filter with cooler. Something I never thought I'd have to do and believe me, its expensive every time. I still run on the stock brakes without any problems but I just added a decent bit of rubber (CCW 17x11 on BFG r1) and am now afraid I'll be upgrading them soon... I like that you have a cage already, I need to start on mine this year, safety first.
If after your first season your absolutely hooked and looking to turn better times, subscribe to www.frrax.com. They have some awesome cars and all the information you'll need to make the most out of your f-body. Some nice homegrown mods like airdams, splitters and front breather conversions. But I'm getting ahead of myself.
BTW, whats a B4C camaro?
I'd also add to that list a complete go through of your cooling system. Blow out the fins of your radiator, check for leaks, etc.
Most people run a quart or so over to keep oil pressures up and prevent starvation in long high speed bends.
Turn one PS pump or send stocker in to get revalved and cooler. Its a very common problem.
Stock suspension is ok, I'd recommend to start on NT05 rubber, awesome grip for the price.
If you have tons of money to throw at it go ahead an do a full suspension. I had full suspension upgrades before I did my first HPDE. After that I was hooked and so the money pit began. If you are doing this for fun, save yourself money on early suspension mods; pads, tires, oil changes, breakdowns get expensive. I've overhauled my engine twice now, upgraded all fasteners, oil pan baffle, remote filter with cooler. Something I never thought I'd have to do and believe me, its expensive every time. I still run on the stock brakes without any problems but I just added a decent bit of rubber (CCW 17x11 on BFG r1) and am now afraid I'll be upgrading them soon... I like that you have a cage already, I need to start on mine this year, safety first.
If after your first season your absolutely hooked and looking to turn better times, subscribe to www.frrax.com. They have some awesome cars and all the information you'll need to make the most out of your f-body. Some nice homegrown mods like airdams, splitters and front breather conversions. But I'm getting ahead of myself.
BTW, whats a B4C camaro?
05-26-2014, 04:35 AM
#7
TECH Enthusiast
Thread Starter
iTrader: (17)
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Southern NJ
Posts: 634
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I would absolutely do HDPE, the more the better. I live in New Jersey so there are several tracks within a few hours.
The car I am working on is the Z28 in my sig. I purchased it with the 8 point already in it but just the shell, no motor, trans, suspension, or interior (although I have the full interior not installed). So I'm starting with a clean slate so to speak.
I would most likely start with a stock front k-member, the tubular k-members are fine for drag racing but I'm not convinced on their durability for road racing. I am not sure about a-arms. Stock or aftermarket, as I said I don't have any now. I'm not sure what springs, shocks, and struts would be best. Double adjustable shocks and struts would most likely just confuse me. So most likely single adjustable, but which brand is best? The biggest question for the suspension is springs. Stock height or lowered? What rate? I have no clue on spring rates.
I know you said stock brakes. I have a connection with Wilwood so since I have nothing now I was thinking about going with them on this car as well.
On the engine I have the choice of three starting points, the LS1 out of my other Camaro, a LQ4, or a resleeved LS2 with a 4.155 bore.
I have a 4L80E or I could use the 4L60 out of the other car, but I think it would be more fun with a M6.
As I like to say I can afford to do thinks but I can only afford to do them once, so I like to get it right the first time.
Again I appreciate you taking the time to provide your advice and experience.
Thanks again
Craig
The car I am working on is the Z28 in my sig. I purchased it with the 8 point already in it but just the shell, no motor, trans, suspension, or interior (although I have the full interior not installed). So I'm starting with a clean slate so to speak.
I would most likely start with a stock front k-member, the tubular k-members are fine for drag racing but I'm not convinced on their durability for road racing. I am not sure about a-arms. Stock or aftermarket, as I said I don't have any now. I'm not sure what springs, shocks, and struts would be best. Double adjustable shocks and struts would most likely just confuse me. So most likely single adjustable, but which brand is best? The biggest question for the suspension is springs. Stock height or lowered? What rate? I have no clue on spring rates.
I know you said stock brakes. I have a connection with Wilwood so since I have nothing now I was thinking about going with them on this car as well.
On the engine I have the choice of three starting points, the LS1 out of my other Camaro, a LQ4, or a resleeved LS2 with a 4.155 bore.
I have a 4L80E or I could use the 4L60 out of the other car, but I think it would be more fun with a M6.
As I like to say I can afford to do thinks but I can only afford to do them once, so I like to get it right the first time.
Again I appreciate you taking the time to provide your advice and experience.
Thanks again
Craig
Trending Topics
05-26-2014, 01:52 PM
#11
With a blank canvas to start with, you're afforded a number of great options. You could easily spend as much as you wanted to on this build, however a simple combo of:
LS1 motor, T56 transmission, Wilwood front brakes (leave the rear stock), Koni Sport shocks, Strano springs and sway bars would make for a great combo on the track and still have decent street manners.
The stock K-member is fine.
While the motor is out, it's worth spending the $200 to pick up an Improved Racing oil pan baffle to help with the oiling issues. Cheap insurance. Once the motor is in, it's a royal PITA to install this, so now is the time to do it.
LS1 motor, T56 transmission, Wilwood front brakes (leave the rear stock), Koni Sport shocks, Strano springs and sway bars would make for a great combo on the track and still have decent street manners.
The stock K-member is fine.
While the motor is out, it's worth spending the $200 to pick up an Improved Racing oil pan baffle to help with the oiling issues. Cheap insurance. Once the motor is in, it's a royal PITA to install this, so now is the time to do it.
05-26-2014, 02:04 PM
#12
Heres how I would do it.
Aluminum 5.3, 405 hp Z06 cam, LS6 intake.
Improved racing pan baffle.
Headers, stock exhaust with a Magnaflow single in/out muffler and tip.
Strano springs
Koni Singles
Stock K member and A arms on front.
Stock control arms on rear to start.
32/19 sway bars to start, this is a stock rear bar and a front bar off an SS or WS6 car. The "1LE" setup.
C6 brake kit
http://www.kore3.com/proddetail.php?prod=10105-01
Brake plenum ducts.
Power steering pump revalve with cooler
Stock rear with a 3.42 gear and Detroit Tru Trac differential.
Set of square 17x9's with cheap street tires to start, I mean cheap Maxxis tires to learn on for the first 6 events. Then go to a Nitto NT05 for the next 6-10 events or stay on them for a long while.
Good seats and belts.
Aluminum 5.3, 405 hp Z06 cam, LS6 intake.
Improved racing pan baffle.
Headers, stock exhaust with a Magnaflow single in/out muffler and tip.
Strano springs
Koni Singles
Stock K member and A arms on front.
Stock control arms on rear to start.
32/19 sway bars to start, this is a stock rear bar and a front bar off an SS or WS6 car. The "1LE" setup.
C6 brake kit
http://www.kore3.com/proddetail.php?prod=10105-01
Brake plenum ducts.
Power steering pump revalve with cooler
Stock rear with a 3.42 gear and Detroit Tru Trac differential.
Set of square 17x9's with cheap street tires to start, I mean cheap Maxxis tires to learn on for the first 6 events. Then go to a Nitto NT05 for the next 6-10 events or stay on them for a long while.
Good seats and belts.
05-26-2014, 03:24 PM
#13
TECH Enthusiast
Thread Starter
iTrader: (17)
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Southern NJ
Posts: 634
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'm not real worried about street manners, I have the B4C (yes a cop car former Oklahoma Highway Patrol car) for the street.
I have a set of Scat seats I was going to put in the street car but I might put them in this car, I haven't decided yet.
Should I go with a stock spring rate or step it up some?
You guys have given me a lot to think on. I will probably make some phone calls and start making some plans. I'm concerned about call some shops. Many seem to know a lot about drag racing, and most of their products are intended for that, but not much on road racing.
I'll post up what I plan and might do a build thread.
Thanks again
Craig
I have a set of Scat seats I was going to put in the street car but I might put them in this car, I haven't decided yet.
Should I go with a stock spring rate or step it up some?
You guys have given me a lot to think on. I will probably make some phone calls and start making some plans. I'm concerned about call some shops. Many seem to know a lot about drag racing, and most of their products are intended for that, but not much on road racing.
I'll post up what I plan and might do a build thread.
Thanks again
Craig
05-27-2014, 09:58 AM
#15
TECH Addict
iTrader: (3)
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: SE VA
Posts: 2,255
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
LS1 motor, T56 transmission, Wilwood front brakes (leave the rear stock), Koni Sport shocks, Strano springs and sway bars would make for a great combo on the track and still have decent street manners.
The stock K-member is fine.
While the motor is out, it's worth spending the $200 to pick up an Improved Racing oil pan baffle to help with the oiling issues. Cheap insurance. Once the motor is in, it's a royal PITA to install this, so now is the time to do it.
The stock K-member is fine.
While the motor is out, it's worth spending the $200 to pick up an Improved Racing oil pan baffle to help with the oiling issues. Cheap insurance. Once the motor is in, it's a royal PITA to install this, so now is the time to do it.
already having an 8pt cage is a plus, and if you really do plan on doing an open road, the faster classes require more safety: 8pt, 12pt, on board fire system, etc. you cant really go wrong with a cage, of any kind, as long as its properly installed. up to you as to where you go with it.
read up on frrax.com for handling specific info. no drag racing at all there.
