What injectors for 1,000 RWHP?
10-23-2014, 02:53 PM
#1
What injectors for 1,000 RWHP? I'll start with saying this is for an LT1 car because I know the LS1 fuel pressure differs a bit from the LT1.
I am looking to make 1,000 RWHP on 93 octane and meth injection with the help from my 383, and turbo.
What I need to know is what fuel injectors do I need? I want high impedence, and don't mind paying for them.
I am looking to make 1,000 RWHP on 93 octane and meth injection with the help from my 383, and turbo.
What I need to know is what fuel injectors do I need? I want high impedence, and don't mind paying for them.
10-24-2014, 05:13 AM
#3
10-24-2014, 02:19 PM
#6
Thanks
So you are saying that if I got 96# injectors for this setup, they would be at 80% duty cycle?
Spoke to a vendor. They recommended Bosch 127# injectors, and they said they would be 80% duty cycle. So, there's a bit of discrepancy between the two (unless I am not understanding you correctly). A set of 8 Bosch 127# injectors would be $896.
Spoke to a vendor. They recommended Bosch 127# injectors, and they said they would be 80% duty cycle. So, there's a bit of discrepancy between the two (unless I am not understanding you correctly). A set of 8 Bosch 127# injectors would be $896.
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10-24-2014, 03:55 PM
#8
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Thanks
So you are saying that if I got 96# injectors for this setup, they would be at 80% duty cycle?
Spoke to a vendor. They recommended Bosch 127# injectors, and they said they would be 80% duty cycle. So, there's a bit of discrepancy between the two (unless I am not understanding you correctly). A set of 8 Bosch 127# injectors would be $896.
So you are saying that if I got 96# injectors for this setup, they would be at 80% duty cycle?
Spoke to a vendor. They recommended Bosch 127# injectors, and they said they would be 80% duty cycle. So, there's a bit of discrepancy between the two (unless I am not understanding you correctly). A set of 8 Bosch 127# injectors would be $896.
10-30-2014, 10:58 PM
#9
as power goes up, Frictional losses and drivetrain loss percentages go up as well....
for 1000 RWHP, you will lose about 30-35% of your crank horsepower...
meaning you need about 1400-1500 at the crank to see 1000 at the wheels
you need injectors that flow 130-140 lb/hr to get to that point and still be at 80% IDC
(we do cars like this all the time...this number comes from experience)
Crank horspower / total cylinders x BSFC / (Injector Duty Cycle percent / 100)
so... 1400 / 8 x 0.6 / (80/100) = 131.25
so you could get some injectors rated for 120lb/hr at 43 and use a 58 base pressure instead and they will be 138lb/hr injectors at 58 psi.
for 1000 RWHP, you will lose about 30-35% of your crank horsepower...
meaning you need about 1400-1500 at the crank to see 1000 at the wheels
you need injectors that flow 130-140 lb/hr to get to that point and still be at 80% IDC
(we do cars like this all the time...this number comes from experience)
Crank horspower / total cylinders x BSFC / (Injector Duty Cycle percent / 100)
so... 1400 / 8 x 0.6 / (80/100) = 131.25
so you could get some injectors rated for 120lb/hr at 43 and use a 58 base pressure instead and they will be 138lb/hr injectors at 58 psi.
Last edited by soundengineer; 10-30-2014 at 11:03 PM.
10-31-2014, 12:22 AM
#10
^^^^I have injector dynamic 1000s. There pricey but are maxd out at 726 wheel 8psi on e85. But on 93 you can get closer to the 1000 (crank) mark making it 800ish wheel
Last edited by ws6turbo; 10-31-2014 at 12:32 AM.
10-31-2014, 12:28 AM
#11
I would go id 1300 if it were me, it's better to have a little extra than be limited by your injectors, but don't go to big injectors have a happy window where they like to operate. .. I'm no tuner but the guy who tuned my car said injector dynamics have a larger window to operate happily.
10-31-2014, 01:12 AM
#12
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Listen to John he know and offers great service on evenly match high quality injectors at a great price FIC rocks.
Now I say this if you have proper fuel delivery 72 lbs. hr. is enough for gasoline.
In the other hand if you don't have proper fuel delivery 1000cc can be short just cause injector must stay open longer to keep up with fuel demand, you'll think you are running out of injector while in reality you are short of fuel pump.
Now I say this if you have proper fuel delivery 72 lbs. hr. is enough for gasoline.
In the other hand if you don't have proper fuel delivery 1000cc can be short just cause injector must stay open longer to keep up with fuel demand, you'll think you are running out of injector while in reality you are short of fuel pump.
10-31-2014, 07:59 AM
#13
e85 needs 30-40% more fuel than gas to get to the same point HP wise....
we've done many many cars that have converted from gas to e85.....
and they all pick up less than 20 HP between the 2 fuels every time...
most of them less than 10 HP gained with the switch
the only thing you gain from switching to e85 is a wider tuning window and a some safety for adding any power adder..gas you might only get to 15 psi before reaching the compression limit of the fuel, e85 with the same engine you can get to 25-30 psi with no issues...
so you gain the potential to make more power by adding more boost or more nitrous....you dont gain more power at the same boost as gas....
you have a very high reading dyno if you made 726 on 8 psi....or you had a 550+ ci motor to start with
1000cc injectors are good for about 700 to the crank on e85....
10-31-2014, 10:49 AM
#14
I guess you dont understand simple math......
e85 needs 30-40% more fuel than gas to get to the same point HP wise....
we've done many many cars that have converted from gas to e85.....
and they all pick up less than 20 HP between the 2 fuels every time...
most of them less than 10 HP gained with the switch
the only thing you gain from switching to e85 is a wider tuning window and a some safety for adding any power adder..gas you might only get to 15 psi before reaching the compression limit of the fuel, e85 with the same engine you can get to 25-30 psi with no issues...
so you gain the potential to make more power by adding more boost or more nitrous....you dont gain more power at the same boost as gas....
you have a very high reading dyno if you made 726 on 8 psi....or you had a 550+ ci motor to start with
1000cc injectors are good for about 700 to the crank on e85....
e85 needs 30-40% more fuel than gas to get to the same point HP wise....
we've done many many cars that have converted from gas to e85.....
and they all pick up less than 20 HP between the 2 fuels every time...
most of them less than 10 HP gained with the switch
the only thing you gain from switching to e85 is a wider tuning window and a some safety for adding any power adder..gas you might only get to 15 psi before reaching the compression limit of the fuel, e85 with the same engine you can get to 25-30 psi with no issues...
so you gain the potential to make more power by adding more boost or more nitrous....you dont gain more power at the same boost as gas....
you have a very high reading dyno if you made 726 on 8 psi....or you had a 550+ ci motor to start with
1000cc injectors are good for about 700 to the crank on e85....
Tuned on a Dyno jet at zero2sixty motorsports Madison wi on a Dyno jet.. my car is on his website son were if you think your rite than all's you gota do is go on his site and look!!
He's asking for real life experience not napkin math.
10-31-2014, 11:24 AM
#17
I guess you dont understand simple math......
e85 needs 30-40% more fuel than gas to get to the same point HP wise....
we've done many many cars that have converted from gas to e85.....
and they all pick up less than 20 HP between the 2 fuels every time...
most of them less than 10 HP gained with the switch
the only thing you gain from switching to e85 is a wider tuning window and a some safety for adding any power adder..gas you might only get to 15 psi before reaching the compression limit of the fuel, e85 with the same engine you can get to 25-30 psi with no issues...
so you gain the potential to make more power by adding more boost or more nitrous....you dont gain more power at the same boost as gas....
you have a very high reading dyno if you made 726 on 8 psi....or you had a 550+ ci motor to start with
1000cc injectors are good for about 700 to the crank on e85....
e85 needs 30-40% more fuel than gas to get to the same point HP wise....
we've done many many cars that have converted from gas to e85.....
and they all pick up less than 20 HP between the 2 fuels every time...
most of them less than 10 HP gained with the switch
the only thing you gain from switching to e85 is a wider tuning window and a some safety for adding any power adder..gas you might only get to 15 psi before reaching the compression limit of the fuel, e85 with the same engine you can get to 25-30 psi with no issues...
so you gain the potential to make more power by adding more boost or more nitrous....you dont gain more power at the same boost as gas....
you have a very high reading dyno if you made 726 on 8 psi....or you had a 550+ ci motor to start with
1000cc injectors are good for about 700 to the crank on e85....
Wow in the same paragraph you go from saying without more boost or nos you only gain 20, then thou say 10 ,then you said you gain none...
10-31-2014, 11:27 AM
#18
Obviously you can tune more aggressively that's the whole point=more hp safely, ok and your telling me you don't pick up ANY power just switching to e85 with the same boost level? I don't care how many cars you've tuned you ain't gona tell me what I got. Lol. My car is making 726wheel on 8.8 psi on e85 on a Dyno jet with 4th gear pulls,, spent awhile on the Dyno and I wasn't drunk, I'll try and get some pics and videos off my old phone.
Tuned on a Dyno jet at zero2sixty motorsports Madison wi on a Dyno jet.. my car is on his website son were if you think your rite than all's you gota do is go on his site and look!!
He's asking for real life experience not napkin math.
Tuned on a Dyno jet at zero2sixty motorsports Madison wi on a Dyno jet.. my car is on his website son were if you think your rite than all's you gota do is go on his site and look!!
He's asking for real life experience not napkin math.
we tune cars all the time that want to switch from gas to e85...
get them on the dyno... do a couple pulls for a baseline...
drain the tank, put in e85....
with no changes in the tune, they lose power every time....
then we start throwing timing at it and it gains back the power....and I have never seen one gain more than 20 HP over gas...typically its closer to 10 hp over gas...
were not in the business of selling lies...we sell reality...and customers come to us because we tell tell the truth...we dont have to have high dyno #'s to win races and we dont have to show high dyno numbers to sell a product..
with 726 rwhp... your car should be in the low low 9's or high 8's all day long at the track(we have many customer making 750 RWHP, and they run mid 8's at the track pretty easy assuming their suspension is up to the task)
lets take another dose of reality...
that LS1 engine makes 325hp to the crank stock(they didnt rate them at the wheels)... you add heads/cam/bolt ons, you are gonna get to 400-425 at the crank....(I'm gonna give you the benefit of a doubt and say you make 450 at the crank with full bolt ons, heads, cam, blah , blah ,blah
now..lets talk boost...boost is a reference of restriction not of airflow...
so lets say theoretically your engine can actually swallow 2x the air... to make double the horsepower...14.5 psi would be double atmostpheric pressure(14.503 to be more specific)....
8psi is barely over half of that...
so realistically the most you can make at the crank is 900 on 14.5 PSI
so lets say you pick up 300 from 8psi to be generous...
even then you are at 750 CRANK HP
and then take away 20-30% for driveline losses.... (we used to have an engine dyno....and we used to dyno about 3 engines a week on it.)
and in the real world... the paper math is ALWAYS higher than what you actually have...paper math is for internet racers who like high numbers
10-31-2014, 12:07 PM
#19
Now ur saying without upping the boost they ALL lost power? Ur statement just keeps changing. ..
Ok so my motor is a ls2. So I started around 420 crank not 320 crank.. and my car has EVERYTHING bmr front to back! The only thing I'm gona switch to is qa1 coils. Who knows what it runs in the 1/4 MILE, NEVER took it to the track although it's capable...
I LOVE haters... free fuel...
And again he asked for real life experience, so I gave mine.. you could have just put your experience in the thread instead of trying to act like you know everything...it's ok to be wrong sometimes ya know? every setup is different..turbo, bolt ons, name brands,tune. . Not everybody sets up shop the same or tunes as aggressive etc. .
Ok so my motor is a ls2. So I started around 420 crank not 320 crank.. and my car has EVERYTHING bmr front to back! The only thing I'm gona switch to is qa1 coils. Who knows what it runs in the 1/4 MILE, NEVER took it to the track although it's capable...
I LOVE haters... free fuel...
And again he asked for real life experience, so I gave mine.. you could have just put your experience in the thread instead of trying to act like you know everything...it's ok to be wrong sometimes ya know? every setup is different..turbo, bolt ons, name brands,tune. . Not everybody sets up shop the same or tunes as aggressive etc. .
Last edited by ws6turbo; 10-31-2014 at 12:12 PM.
10-31-2014, 12:08 PM
#20
^^^ and that's cool you use to have a engine Dyno.. zero2sixty has like 3 and a chassis dyno.. and over 20 high hp engine builds at one time...
I am switching back to gas soon here and I will post up my current numbers and my new numbers with gas... and this will be on a different Dyno jet (brand brand new) so that will clear this up since your claiming the previous dyno read high. . This Dyno is at 7000 ft. Elevation since I now live in the mountains. So I'm expecting a slight loss in power from the elevation change,,, WI to CO
I am switching back to gas soon here and I will post up my current numbers and my new numbers with gas... and this will be on a different Dyno jet (brand brand new) so that will clear this up since your claiming the previous dyno read high. . This Dyno is at 7000 ft. Elevation since I now live in the mountains. So I'm expecting a slight loss in power from the elevation change,,, WI to CO
Last edited by ws6turbo; 10-31-2014 at 12:27 PM.