Bolt on record a bit lower and faster: 11.273 at 120.02!
04-27-2002, 09:37 PM
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Bolt on record a bit lower and faster: 11.273 at 120.02! Whoever is keeping up the stock internals bolt-on combined list these days, please update as follows:
11.273 at 120.02 (1.462 60'), 3140#, Yank TP4400, Strange 12-bolt 4.10's
Well, after a long Michigan winter and most of April's racing rained or snowed out, some good air crept in for a day. Went to Norwalk, Ohio last night for my last (or almost last) bolt-on blasts. Just now posting as I did not get home until 4 am this morning.
Only changes from last November's set up are as follows: my buddy's Strange 12-bolt with 4.10's on semi-permanent loan, a custom program in an extra PCM which didn't work BTW, 28x10.5x15 ET Drags, and a larger rear sway bar (1") to get the car to not twist so bad (which did work BTW). Raceweight 3130-3140# depending on which slicks I ran (the 28's on 15x10's are heavier by about 5#'s each).
The details…
First run was on the 26x10x16 M/T ET Drags on my 16x8 ProStars (5.5" bs) (both discontinued FYI) with the PCM that had the 4.10's in, shifts at 6200 and rev limit at 6600, supposedly. I think the limiter was still at 6400 from last year as it banged the limiter so HARD on the shifts the front end slammed down. Run was 11.748 at 114.97 with a 1.560 60' spinning some. Went straight to the pits and put in my stock PCM that has the only changes being the gear ratio and 6600 limiter…nothing else at all. Came back around and spun to an 11.364 at 117.48 with a 1.605 60' banging the rev limiter through the traps due to the converter slippage. Obviously, the 4.10's on the 26's are harder to hook than the 3.23's were last year.
After that, I changed over to the 28x10.5x15's ET Drags on 15x10 ProStars (7.5" bs) and went up to see if they rubbed on a launch and half-track pass. According to my garage floor assessment, if they rubbed on my car, it'd be on the rear fascia…slightly I hoped as I have not modified the fascia as of yet. After a big burnout, a bad launch of 1.646 60' (forgot to take the air down and ran them at 24 psi on a 3100 rpm launch, I just ran it to the 1/8th to check on the rubbing. They rubbed just enough to put a layer of rubber on the fascias. I only got up to 95 mph. I decided to make a couple of blasts knowing they'd rub a bit more at the top end.
The results…11.286 at 119.60 and 11.273 at 120.02 with a 1.462 60'!!! The car ran 94.94-95.32 in the 1/8th.
1.462 60', 4.536 330', 7.134 at 94.94, 9.373 1000', 11.273 at 120.02. The air was real good with DA's on the last runs around -1,857! (42.1 F, 60% RH, 30.30 baro, very light to calm winds, just a gorgeous day). The DA and the incrementals were very close to those with my former best of 11.303 at 118.32.
I think there is more here as the 1.462 launch was at 2812 rpm with 16 psi cold in the slicks where I was launching at 3300 with the 3.23's to get in the 1.47-1.49 range for the 60's. I wanted to try to launch nearer to 3300, but that was my last available pass (punch cards at Norwalk).
For those that data log, I had the fans off trying to get the trans temp up to around 190-200F like I like it. ECT at launch was 233F with TFT 186F. Zero knock retard but torque management was pulling ALL of the spark out on the shifts. 02's were in the 940-911 range (leaner at the big end).
I've got my heads I am starting to work on and have yet to decide on a cam. However, in the meantime, I may try to get the other PCM working correctly with the cal leaned out, torque management removed or toned down, and launch harder. With similar real good air, it might go high 11-teens or at least a low 11.2x.
For those that aren't familiar with the car and its details, do a search on my username for old posts in the ¼-mile section of LS1.com. Take care and good luck with your goals.
11.273 at 120.02 (1.462 60'), 3140#, Yank TP4400, Strange 12-bolt 4.10's
Well, after a long Michigan winter and most of April's racing rained or snowed out, some good air crept in for a day. Went to Norwalk, Ohio last night for my last (or almost last) bolt-on blasts. Just now posting as I did not get home until 4 am this morning.
Only changes from last November's set up are as follows: my buddy's Strange 12-bolt with 4.10's on semi-permanent loan, a custom program in an extra PCM which didn't work BTW, 28x10.5x15 ET Drags, and a larger rear sway bar (1") to get the car to not twist so bad (which did work BTW). Raceweight 3130-3140# depending on which slicks I ran (the 28's on 15x10's are heavier by about 5#'s each).
The details…
First run was on the 26x10x16 M/T ET Drags on my 16x8 ProStars (5.5" bs) (both discontinued FYI) with the PCM that had the 4.10's in, shifts at 6200 and rev limit at 6600, supposedly. I think the limiter was still at 6400 from last year as it banged the limiter so HARD on the shifts the front end slammed down. Run was 11.748 at 114.97 with a 1.560 60' spinning some. Went straight to the pits and put in my stock PCM that has the only changes being the gear ratio and 6600 limiter…nothing else at all. Came back around and spun to an 11.364 at 117.48 with a 1.605 60' banging the rev limiter through the traps due to the converter slippage. Obviously, the 4.10's on the 26's are harder to hook than the 3.23's were last year.
After that, I changed over to the 28x10.5x15's ET Drags on 15x10 ProStars (7.5" bs) and went up to see if they rubbed on a launch and half-track pass. According to my garage floor assessment, if they rubbed on my car, it'd be on the rear fascia…slightly I hoped as I have not modified the fascia as of yet. After a big burnout, a bad launch of 1.646 60' (forgot to take the air down and ran them at 24 psi on a 3100 rpm launch, I just ran it to the 1/8th to check on the rubbing. They rubbed just enough to put a layer of rubber on the fascias. I only got up to 95 mph. I decided to make a couple of blasts knowing they'd rub a bit more at the top end.
The results…11.286 at 119.60 and 11.273 at 120.02 with a 1.462 60'!!! The car ran 94.94-95.32 in the 1/8th.
1.462 60', 4.536 330', 7.134 at 94.94, 9.373 1000', 11.273 at 120.02. The air was real good with DA's on the last runs around -1,857! (42.1 F, 60% RH, 30.30 baro, very light to calm winds, just a gorgeous day). The DA and the incrementals were very close to those with my former best of 11.303 at 118.32.
I think there is more here as the 1.462 launch was at 2812 rpm with 16 psi cold in the slicks where I was launching at 3300 with the 3.23's to get in the 1.47-1.49 range for the 60's. I wanted to try to launch nearer to 3300, but that was my last available pass (punch cards at Norwalk).
For those that data log, I had the fans off trying to get the trans temp up to around 190-200F like I like it. ECT at launch was 233F with TFT 186F. Zero knock retard but torque management was pulling ALL of the spark out on the shifts. 02's were in the 940-911 range (leaner at the big end).
I've got my heads I am starting to work on and have yet to decide on a cam. However, in the meantime, I may try to get the other PCM working correctly with the cal leaned out, torque management removed or toned down, and launch harder. With similar real good air, it might go high 11-teens or at least a low 11.2x.
For those that aren't familiar with the car and its details, do a search on my username for old posts in the ¼-mile section of LS1.com. Take care and good luck with your goals.
04-27-2002, 09:45 PM
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Re: Bolt on record a bit lower and faster: 11.273 at 120.02! That's pretty damn amazing. I guess its time to spend more money? I think you'll stay in the top 10 for a while.
31xx weight w/ you in it? That's a serious diet.
31xx weight w/ you in it? That's a serious diet.
04-27-2002, 11:21 PM
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Re: Bolt on record a bit lower and faster: 11.273 at 120.02! HOLY HELL that's quick for stock internals! I wish I could see those conditions in the winter, much less April! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" /> You've definitely raised the bar for the bolt-on guys. There's no doubt that it took some time and effort to get the weight down to 3,140#! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="gr_eek2.gif" /> Congrats on one helluva setup.
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04-28-2002, 06:07 AM
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Re: Bolt on record a bit lower and faster: 11.273 at 120.02! </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by z28kid98:
<strong>HOLY CRAP!!!!! that's incredible. remember back when Raughammer's times were outrageous? Think about it, this is 3 tenths faster!!! That is incredible!!! Congrats!
Chris</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Thanks guys...that's exactly why I sold my heads/cam'd 95 T/A M6 to my buddy. It was fast, but I knew the potential for the Gen 3's. I continue to only think people will continue to lower the bar especially with the heads/cam/big inch cars, let alone the power adders as people gain more knowledge on what works & doesn't.
On the weight, just like last fall, I don't have my cage in yet and more stripping could be done as I've still got my radio head, front doors/panels are stock w/speakers, airbags are in, no cage (yet), etc. I've detailed my weight reduction before. Weight later this spring will be about 3240# with the moly cage, harnesses, lightweight carpet in, etc.
On the launches, I want to be able to leave at whatever the brakes will hold, around 3300-3500 rpm. That's what my 3.23's like with the converter. The 1.462 60' with the 2800 rpm launch actually felt a bit lazy, so, I think it will pull a better one if the air and track conditions are that good again and I launch harder.
Off to feed my boys...they are a good reason to know that my head/cam work is going to take MUCH longer than it did with my '95 when we did not have kids yet. Take care.
<strong>HOLY CRAP!!!!! that's incredible. remember back when Raughammer's times were outrageous? Think about it, this is 3 tenths faster!!! That is incredible!!! Congrats!
Chris</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Thanks guys...that's exactly why I sold my heads/cam'd 95 T/A M6 to my buddy. It was fast, but I knew the potential for the Gen 3's. I continue to only think people will continue to lower the bar especially with the heads/cam/big inch cars, let alone the power adders as people gain more knowledge on what works & doesn't.
On the weight, just like last fall, I don't have my cage in yet and more stripping could be done as I've still got my radio head, front doors/panels are stock w/speakers, airbags are in, no cage (yet), etc. I've detailed my weight reduction before. Weight later this spring will be about 3240# with the moly cage, harnesses, lightweight carpet in, etc.
On the launches, I want to be able to leave at whatever the brakes will hold, around 3300-3500 rpm. That's what my 3.23's like with the converter. The 1.462 60' with the 2800 rpm launch actually felt a bit lazy, so, I think it will pull a better one if the air and track conditions are that good again and I launch harder.
Off to feed my boys...they are a good reason to know that my head/cam work is going to take MUCH longer than it did with my '95 when we did not have kids yet. Take care.
04-28-2002, 09:00 AM
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Re: Bolt on record a bit lower and faster: 11.273 at 120.02! Congrats that's one hell of a run. <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_cheers.gif" />
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04-28-2002, 09:15 AM
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Re: Bolt on record a bit lower and faster: 11.273 at 120.02! FOR JUST A BOLT-ON CAR----THAT IS MOVING. CONGRATULATIONS---I WANT TO RUN THAT WITH A H/C CAR AND I WOULD STILL BE HAPPY. AGAIN, GREAT RUN.
04-28-2002, 10:49 AM
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Re: Bolt on record a bit lower and faster: 11.273 at 120.02! I geuss its time for me to step up to the plate and put some more mods on and remove more weight this new converter(PT4000) works good reduced my times by .10 . Geuss I'll try a TP4400 next.But will probably have to wait for some good weather here in VA its going to be in low 80's today.
CONGRATS on the new time ... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" /> Hope to be there with you this year.
<small>[ April 28, 2002, 10:50 AM: Message edited by: 11SECSS ]</small>
CONGRATS on the new time ... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" /> Hope to be there with you this year.
<small>[ April 28, 2002, 10:50 AM: Message edited by: 11SECSS ]</small>
04-28-2002, 11:47 AM
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Re: Bolt on record a bit lower and faster: 11.273 at 120.02! Dave, absolutely AWESOME <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" /> I think you'll be able to next some more time off also. I can't wait to get back into the swing of things
Does anybody still think 10 internally stock would be impossible? Drop a couple hundred pounds off Dave's car and then go to a sea-level track where -2400 DA's are not that uncommon <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="gr_tounge.gif" />
Anyway Congrats again Dave and get that other computer working <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
LAter <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />
Does anybody still think 10 internally stock would be impossible? Drop a couple hundred pounds off Dave's car and then go to a sea-level track where -2400 DA's are not that uncommon <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="gr_tounge.gif" />
Anyway Congrats again Dave and get that other computer working <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
LAter <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />
04-28-2002, 06:16 PM
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Re: Bolt on record a bit lower and faster: 11.273 at 120.02! Nice times!
So how do you feel about the gears; was it worth it? Do think the TP4400 and 4.10's will require a 28" tall tire.
Also, how much do you weigh?
Again, nice times.
So how do you feel about the gears; was it worth it? Do think the TP4400 and 4.10's will require a 28" tall tire.
Also, how much do you weigh?
Again, nice times.
04-28-2002, 08:35 PM
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Re: Bolt on record a bit lower and faster: 11.273 at 120.02! </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Mike Hoffpauir:
<strong>Nice times!
So how do you feel about the gears; was it worth it? Do think the TP4400 and 4.10's will require a 28" tall tire.
Also, how much do you weigh?
Again, nice times.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Thanks guys. As far as the 4.10's, for a bolt-on car, I wanted no more than 3.73's if I stuck with a 26" slick. From my post detail, the clean run on the 26's banged the 6600 limiter right as I entered the traps (converter slippage). If your car did not mph as high, you'd be okay, or you could push the limiter out more...but that's not what I want on the stock valvetrain. My set of 28's are taller than what was advertised putting my effective ratio when compared with the 26's as a baseline at around 3.83 or so if my memory serves me right (spreadsheet on my computer...I'm on my wife's).
As far as MY weight, I went from about an A-cup to a B over the winter. I was 195 with helmet, etc. last fall. This year, 205 vs my plan to be at 180 in race trim...too many Krispy Kremes and beer. Much easier to loose weight off the car and to keep it off. Bob, we need your even skinnier car with a tiny little driver some more good air and it'd be in the 10's.
What is amazing is how quick the TP4400 ramps up...on the 2812 rpm launch, 1/10th of a second later on my log showed 3993 rpms and only 1 mph vehicle speed. It sure keeps the engine in the sweet spot, but would be too loose for 26" slicks on a fast mph car like a N20 or H/C car with 4.10's unless the limiter was way out there. With a good valvetrain and a car making power at high rpm's, it'd work on 26"ers and 4.10's or steeper. Anyways, take care and good luck to all.
<strong>Nice times!
So how do you feel about the gears; was it worth it? Do think the TP4400 and 4.10's will require a 28" tall tire.
Also, how much do you weigh?
Again, nice times.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Thanks guys. As far as the 4.10's, for a bolt-on car, I wanted no more than 3.73's if I stuck with a 26" slick. From my post detail, the clean run on the 26's banged the 6600 limiter right as I entered the traps (converter slippage). If your car did not mph as high, you'd be okay, or you could push the limiter out more...but that's not what I want on the stock valvetrain. My set of 28's are taller than what was advertised putting my effective ratio when compared with the 26's as a baseline at around 3.83 or so if my memory serves me right (spreadsheet on my computer...I'm on my wife's).
As far as MY weight, I went from about an A-cup to a B over the winter. I was 195 with helmet, etc. last fall. This year, 205 vs my plan to be at 180 in race trim...too many Krispy Kremes and beer. Much easier to loose weight off the car and to keep it off. Bob, we need your even skinnier car with a tiny little driver some more good air and it'd be in the 10's.
What is amazing is how quick the TP4400 ramps up...on the 2812 rpm launch, 1/10th of a second later on my log showed 3993 rpms and only 1 mph vehicle speed. It sure keeps the engine in the sweet spot, but would be too loose for 26" slicks on a fast mph car like a N20 or H/C car with 4.10's unless the limiter was way out there. With a good valvetrain and a car making power at high rpm's, it'd work on 26"ers and 4.10's or steeper. Anyways, take care and good luck to all.
04-28-2002, 08:50 PM
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Re: Bolt on record a bit lower and faster: 11.273 at 120.02! </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Mike Hoffpauir:
<strong>Nice times!
So how do you feel about the gears; was it worth it? Do think the TP4400 and 4.10's will require a 28" tall tire.
Also, how much do you weigh?
Again, nice times.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Mike, one other thing, the rearend that's from my buddy's car, was out of his LT1 M6'er, that's why the 4.10's. Hindsight is 20-20, so, if I had ordered it, FOR A BOLT-ON car, I would have gone 3.73's and stuck with my 26" slicks. After having run the 28x10.5's and the 4.10's, if I could, I would not want to magically go to the 3.73's and 26"ers...I'll stay with these 4.10's and 28"ers.
If I knew I was doing a H/C, stroker, whatever, I'd go at least 4.10's or even steeper depending on what tire you were willing to run (& clearance for) and what speed you were willing to turn the motor to. Take care.
<strong>Nice times!
So how do you feel about the gears; was it worth it? Do think the TP4400 and 4.10's will require a 28" tall tire.
Also, how much do you weigh?
Again, nice times.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Mike, one other thing, the rearend that's from my buddy's car, was out of his LT1 M6'er, that's why the 4.10's. Hindsight is 20-20, so, if I had ordered it, FOR A BOLT-ON car, I would have gone 3.73's and stuck with my 26" slicks. After having run the 28x10.5's and the 4.10's, if I could, I would not want to magically go to the 3.73's and 26"ers...I'll stay with these 4.10's and 28"ers.
If I knew I was doing a H/C, stroker, whatever, I'd go at least 4.10's or even steeper depending on what tire you were willing to run (& clearance for) and what speed you were willing to turn the motor to. Take care.
04-30-2002, 12:07 AM
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Re: Bolt on record a bit lower and faster: 11.273 at 120.02! Congrats!! That is an awesome time. Might as well drop some weight & take it into the 10's
I already dropped the head & cam in last week, so I'm out of the bolt on game. Looking for 10's this year. Keep up the great work, looking forward to running ya sometime this year. Later.
I already dropped the head & cam in last week, so I'm out of the bolt on game. Looking for 10's this year. Keep up the great work, looking forward to running ya sometime this year. Later.
04-30-2002, 08:39 AM
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Re: Bolt on record a bit lower and faster: 11.273 at 120.02! Man, i'm still amazed <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="gr_tounge.gif" /> that's quicker than me when i had a TNT 100 shot <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
Chris
Chris
