Bob Cosby, or Others who know of chassis' & weight placement
10-03-2002, 02:23 PM
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Bob Cosby, or Others who know of chassis' & weight placement https://ls1tech.com/ubb/ultimatebb.p...c;f=5;t=002655
Nice post Bob. I've been reviewing my options to add weight and your lead spare is a nice idea <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
But, have you exprienced any complications from putting too much weight in one place?
I'm planning on running a full tank of gas, spare and jack, back seat, and a 30 pound tool bag and 30 pounds worth of dumbells in the back compartment. I'd planned on wrapping them up in towels to keep them immobile. Because of class rules I'm going to be on drag radials so I'm looking at the addition of weight (150+ pounds) positively.
In considering weight placement, should I put as much as possible on the rear, and in that move the 30 pounds for the back seat to the rear compartment?
Should I move weight forward because of some disadvantage to having all the weight (some odd 150 pounds) added to the most-rear point on the car? If so I could put weight in the glove box or center console.
Any help would be appreciated.
<small>[ October 03, 2002, 02:24 PM: Message edited by: Mike Hoffpauir ]</small>
Nice post Bob. I've been reviewing my options to add weight and your lead spare is a nice idea <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
But, have you exprienced any complications from putting too much weight in one place?
I'm planning on running a full tank of gas, spare and jack, back seat, and a 30 pound tool bag and 30 pounds worth of dumbells in the back compartment. I'd planned on wrapping them up in towels to keep them immobile. Because of class rules I'm going to be on drag radials so I'm looking at the addition of weight (150+ pounds) positively.
In considering weight placement, should I put as much as possible on the rear, and in that move the 30 pounds for the back seat to the rear compartment?
Should I move weight forward because of some disadvantage to having all the weight (some odd 150 pounds) added to the most-rear point on the car? If so I could put weight in the glove box or center console.
Any help would be appreciated.
<small>[ October 03, 2002, 02:24 PM: Message edited by: Mike Hoffpauir ]</small>
10-03-2002, 03:45 PM
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Re: Bob Cosby, or Others who know of chassis' & weight placement Hi Mike. Thanks for the nice words, but it looks like someone took offense to something that was said in that post, as it is gone. I don't think I said anything that was 'wrong', though perhaps someone else did. About the only thing I said that might have rubbed a few folks a bit odd was that all M6's that run faster than 11.99 will be technically illegal at No Problem Raceway. Even still, that shouldn't have been grounds for deletion....mods? Anybody? Am I barking up the wrong tree?
Anyways, with all due respect to Madman, I'd put all the weight as far back as possible. It is nice if you can make it moveable from side to side, for suspension tuning, but the further back the better, IMHO. We have cars in the class I race in that go high 1.5's on drag radials with 320-ish RWHP and 3300 lbs. Why? One reason is that they have a LOT of that weight in the rear...with some better than 45/55 front/rear weight distribution.
Of note, what you are wanting to do is technically illegal, per NHRA rules (as was a lot of what I was talking about). Per the rules, ballast must be securely fastened or permanently welded. There is little real restriction on permanent ballast, so long as it is welded (or the nuts welded to the bolts). However, removable ballast must be secured by at least two 1/2" bolts - extending into the chassis - per 100 lbs. Max removable/permanent ballast is 500 lbs.
By the book, a lead-filled spare is illegal, as is extra weight in the glove box or wherever (not that I haven't done it).
Speaking of which....I was disqualified after the first round of eliminations last weekend at the NMRA finals (Bowling Green, KY) for 'illegal' ballast. The scales were a good 20 lbs lighter than at the last race (Atco, NJ), and the only way I could add weight was to hide it. I did a good job of hiding 25 lbs of it, but I got caught with a 10 lb barbell under the rear seat delete kit (yes, the series I race in does check - quite often). It is nobody's fault but mine, so be advised that it can happen. What really sucks is that I was qualified #3 in a 20 car field, and had I gone to the semi-finals, I would have finised at least one, and possibly two positions higher in season points. Oh well...only me to blame. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
Enough of my ranting...hope this helps, and good luck to you.
Anyways, with all due respect to Madman, I'd put all the weight as far back as possible. It is nice if you can make it moveable from side to side, for suspension tuning, but the further back the better, IMHO. We have cars in the class I race in that go high 1.5's on drag radials with 320-ish RWHP and 3300 lbs. Why? One reason is that they have a LOT of that weight in the rear...with some better than 45/55 front/rear weight distribution.
Of note, what you are wanting to do is technically illegal, per NHRA rules (as was a lot of what I was talking about). Per the rules, ballast must be securely fastened or permanently welded. There is little real restriction on permanent ballast, so long as it is welded (or the nuts welded to the bolts). However, removable ballast must be secured by at least two 1/2" bolts - extending into the chassis - per 100 lbs. Max removable/permanent ballast is 500 lbs.
By the book, a lead-filled spare is illegal, as is extra weight in the glove box or wherever (not that I haven't done it).
Speaking of which....I was disqualified after the first round of eliminations last weekend at the NMRA finals (Bowling Green, KY) for 'illegal' ballast. The scales were a good 20 lbs lighter than at the last race (Atco, NJ), and the only way I could add weight was to hide it. I did a good job of hiding 25 lbs of it, but I got caught with a 10 lb barbell under the rear seat delete kit (yes, the series I race in does check - quite often). It is nobody's fault but mine, so be advised that it can happen. What really sucks is that I was qualified #3 in a 20 car field, and had I gone to the semi-finals, I would have finised at least one, and possibly two positions higher in season points. Oh well...only me to blame. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
Enough of my ranting...hope this helps, and good luck to you.
10-03-2002, 04:20 PM
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Re: Bob Cosby, or Others who know of chassis' & weight placement Wow Bob, I didnt think about the illegality of loose weight. I guess what I need to do now is find out what Thunder will let slide.
10-03-2002, 05:05 PM
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Re: Bob Cosby, or Others who know of chassis' & weight placement I Like these technical discussions. Bob I wont take offense from someone with a educated response, which you always seem to have.
The reasoning for putting weight in the front is that these cars already scale out at usually 51% on the front. Yes a perfect car is 50/500 but we dont have the chassis to compensate. BUT on a drag radial car yes I would put the weight as far back as possible.
Per NHRA rules the ballast has to be secured.
The reasoning for putting weight in the front is that these cars already scale out at usually 51% on the front. Yes a perfect car is 50/500 but we dont have the chassis to compensate. BUT on a drag radial car yes I would put the weight as far back as possible.
Per NHRA rules the ballast has to be secured.
10-03-2002, 06:53 PM
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Re: Bob Cosby, or Others who know of chassis' & weight placement I like the weight as far back as possible up until the point where keeping the front end from going WAAAAAAAAAAY skyward is reached. I seriously need wheelie bars! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="gr_eek2.gif" />
I think I may move the battery back to the front and stiffen the extension on the front shocks.
I think I may move the battery back to the front and stiffen the extension on the front shocks.
10-03-2002, 07:49 PM
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Re: Bob Cosby, or Others who know of chassis' & weight placement </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Bob Cosby:
<strong>Hi Mike. Thanks for the nice words, but it looks like someone took offense to something that was said in that post, as it is gone. I don't think I said anything that was 'wrong', though perhaps someone else did. About the only thing I said that might have rubbed a few folks a bit odd was that all M6's that run faster than 11.99 will be technically illegal at No Problem Raceway. Even still, that shouldn't have been grounds for deletion....mods? Anybody? Am I barking up the wrong tree?
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I was wondering the same thing... Fellow mods? Anyone know what happened to this post?
Maybe the originator deleted it for some reason?
<strong>Hi Mike. Thanks for the nice words, but it looks like someone took offense to something that was said in that post, as it is gone. I don't think I said anything that was 'wrong', though perhaps someone else did. About the only thing I said that might have rubbed a few folks a bit odd was that all M6's that run faster than 11.99 will be technically illegal at No Problem Raceway. Even still, that shouldn't have been grounds for deletion....mods? Anybody? Am I barking up the wrong tree?
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I was wondering the same thing... Fellow mods? Anyone know what happened to this post?
Maybe the originator deleted it for some reason?
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10-03-2002, 08:13 PM
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Re: Bob Cosby, or Others who know of chassis' & weight placement
10-03-2002, 08:45 PM
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Re: Bob Cosby, or Others who know of chassis' & weight placement Ah - cool. I take all that back. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" /> However, when I first clicked on the link at the top of this thread, it came up with an error stating that the link doesn't exist.
Madman...I base my opinion on the assumption that most folks need more hook. Obviously if you are setup correctly, and/or have more hook than necessary (ie...you're way up in in the air on launch), then I see your point.
For me...I need all the help I can get on DR's...
<img src="http://www.hardcore50.com/race_coverage/NMRA-BG-Finals/P9282916_TN.jpg" alt=" - " />
Yes Mom, drag radials DO wrinkle... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
<small>[ October 03, 2002, 08:46 PM: Message edited by: Bob Cosby ]</small>
Madman...I base my opinion on the assumption that most folks need more hook. Obviously if you are setup correctly, and/or have more hook than necessary (ie...you're way up in in the air on launch), then I see your point.
For me...I need all the help I can get on DR's...
<img src="http://www.hardcore50.com/race_coverage/NMRA-BG-Finals/P9282916_TN.jpg" alt=" - " />
Yes Mom, drag radials DO wrinkle... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
<small>[ October 03, 2002, 08:46 PM: Message edited by: Bob Cosby ]</small>
