Larry

iTrader: (4)

I took my new Weld Prostar wheels/tires to a tire shop to have my balanced. I noticed that the center steel spacer ring was shifting around making noise even on the balancer. They went ahead and balanced them. Installed them on the car and got unacceptable vibration. Took the wheels back to them. They did not have a device for centering the steel ring. I then went to Discount Tire. Surely Discount Tire has a way to balance these things. Checked all of their centering hubs and none were the correct diameter for my wheels. Even had they had the correct diameter there devices did not have an extrusion on their hub long enough to center ring. How do I get these wheels balanced?

1bad57

check with a local speed shop; and make sure that someone really sold you weld wheels and not a chep knock off!
jaybo

Larry

iTrader: (4)

These wheels are definitely Weld Racing.

Tally TransAm

iTrader: (17)

tell the shop to shove a loose valve stem in each hole of the prostar. it will keep the center piece from moving around and as long as you put one in every hole it will balance out fine. (i work at discount tire, owned prostars, and balanced a ton)

Larry

iTrader: (4)

That's an interesting idea. But how does the ring stay centered when you install the wheels?

I thought I might drill three holes about 3/8" diameter from the back of the wheel between lug nut holes. Then fill with epoxy to hold the ring. The epoxy would serve as a plug to hold the ring to the wheel. Not sure the ring is round however and could miss the ring. It may be scalloped between holes. Why does Weld make wheels with a loose ring make no sense to me.

Tally TransAm

iTrader: (17)

the ring is center on an installed wheel by the centercap primarily i believe. the lugs will center it enough to not cause a problem if your not running a center cap though.

1bad57

are we talking about a hub centering ring?
if so...the answer to why weld makes a loose ring is .. they build one wheel size and they use the centering rings to match your specific hub size.
ok,
get ready here it comes...

Hubcentric adapter rings
A hubcentric wheel is designed to achieve its concentric alignment in one of two ways: either the wheel's inboard center hub opening (center bore) is precisely machined to align and fit the specific vehicle hub, or the center bore is still precisely centered, but is slightly oversize, and is designed to be used with a centering adapter ring. A centering ring may be a loose item that sandwiches between the wheel and hub, or it may be designed for a locked position installation on the wheel itself. If it's a separate piece (as is the case with some OEM designs that use centering rings), corrosion/electrolysis usually causes the ring to stick to the hub. In some cases, the car owner doesn't realize this ring is a separate piece, and may replace the OEM wheel with an aftermarket wheel that isn't designed to use a centering ring. If this happens, the replacement wheel can't mount flush to the hub face because the old centering ring prevents a flush mount. Most aftermarket centering rings are made of cast, forged or machined aluminum or molded nylon, and are designed to snap into the rear of the wheel center opening. Various designs exist, including compression fit, interference fit and securing with a compressible locking ring (similar to a springwire circlip or position ring).

Balancing
In order to achieve the optimum level of dynamic balance, the wheel must be positioned correctly on the balancer's spindle. That means the spindle must locate exactly in the axis center of the wheel's diameter. While using a tapered cone to locate the wheel hub's rear opening may be sufficient for the majority of daily street balance jobs, it isn't the best way to achieve the true center of an expensive custom alloy wheel. Since a tapered cone contacts the wheel hub opening only on its edge, the slightest edge deviation can create an eccentric position for the wheel. The best way to center the wheel on the spindle is through the use of a hub-centric adapter. This is a multi-piece adapter that contacts the inside diameter of the wheel's hub opening, on its walls instead of only at its rear edge. The adapter is spring loaded, with an internal tapered pilot that spreads the adapter open for full contact to the wheel's hub walls. These hub-centric adapters are available separately or in kits of two or three different diameter ranges. Once the hub-centric adapter is placed on the balancer's spindle, position the wheel onto the adapter. Support the wheel/tire as it's placed into position, being careful not to nick the wheel's hub opening in the process. Next, place the outer hub cone against the face of the wheel's hub. Again, while the use of a tapered cone may be acceptable for routine work, it's recommended to use a flat-face cone for best results. Since the hub-centric adapter has located the wheel in its true centered position, adding a tapered cone on the face of the wheel can easily create a slight offset from center if it's not located perfectly, relative to the true center of rotation. Instead of allowing a tapered cone to "fight" the true center that's already achieved by the hub-centric adapter, simply use a flat-faced cone on the front of the wheel. This will provide a contact mounting for the wheel that won't alter the true center position. Secure the wheel and its adapters to the spindle with a threaded spinner nut. While a one-piece threaded spinner nut will work just fine, consider a quick-release style if you work under high-capacity conditions. This style relaxes the multi-piece nut with the press of a trigger, allowing instant-on and instant-off during busy work periods. Once secured to the balancer spindle, spin the wheel to obtain the initial balance reading. It may be a good idea to leave the paper tread decals on, as this provides an easy-to-see reference point, allowing you to more easily notice any drastic axial runout or wobble. Most purchasers of alloy wheels will naturally not want to see pinch-on weights placed on the outside rim, and many would also prefer that no pinch-on weights are placed on the inside rim as well. The answer is obviously to use adhesive weights, placed only on the backside of the rim. Once weight and placement is determined on the dynamic balancer and the weights are placed, recheck the balance. If the wheels/tires are to be used in high-speed competition, it's not a bad idea to also place a strip of duct tape over the weights, providing additional adhesive security.

Wheel installation on the vehicle

After making sure the vehicle's hubs are clean and free of rust, burrs, foreign matter, etc., consider spraying a coat of satin black paint (enamel or urethane) onto the rotor hat or drum. This creates a clean and tidy appearance, especially when the wheels are of an open design that provides a view of rotor hat or drum areas. This is a nice added touch that really benefits the overall appearance. Wheel position during fastener tightening can have impact on the final product. It's very common for an installer to "hang" a wheel onto the hub studs, finger-start each nut and continue to fully tighten each nut while the wheel/tire weight "hangs" on the studs. For best results, support the wheel/tire during initial fastener tightening. Whether the wheel is lug-centric (designed to center itself to the hub by the lug holes) or hub-centric (designed to center itself at the center hub hole), try to avoid letting the wheel hang by its own weight as the fasteners are drawn tight. Supporting the wheel/tire weight will help the centering process and avoid off-center mounting and undue stress on the bolt or stud threads. Always use a clean socket to avoid marring new plated fasteners. While it may be acceptable to use an impact gun to remove fasteners, never use a gun to install them. Always use a hand-operated torque wrench, and pay strict attention to tightening pattern and torque specs.

thank you and elvis has left the building...hope this helps

1bad57

geez that was long winded..hope that was what we were talking about!
LOL
jaybo

Tally TransAm

iTrader: (17)

ready to be depressed

we arent talking about hub rings

inside the face of a prostar, between the front face and the rear face, there is a loose piece, which we are calling the "loose ring," this is sandwiched when the lugs are tighted and doesnt move when on the car, however when you are balancing them is free to move and will cause an improper balance if it isnt secured

Larry

iTrader: (4)

1bad57, Wow! I may never get these wheels balanced if it takes something other than a tapered hub. I haven't checked every tire shop in Sugar Land but all I have seen are the tapered hub devices. Thanks for the explanation.

Tally,

If the wheel is balanced with the ring in the center that is fine but when you install it on the car the ring shifts off center. There is no way to center this ring on the car without special provisions.

I'm thinking I may drill (3) 1/4 or 3/8" diameter holes from the back through the "loose ring" and fill with epoxy to be used as locater pins. Once the ring is centered with the epoxy I will have it balanced. The loose ring will then be centered when the wheel is installed on the car. This is assuming the loose ring is not scalloped and a hole can be drilled into the back and into the ring.

Can't believe I have to go through this process just to balance my tires!

Tally TransAm

iTrader: (17)

you dont have to go through all that, do what i said and it will come out fine

Larry

iTrader: (4)

The wheels will be balanced fine with the valve stems in each hole on the balancer but when the valve stems are removed for installation on the car then the ring shifts, the wheel is again out of balance. The ring will be off center on the car without some type of holding devide on the loose ring. Does this make sense?

Tally TransAm

iTrader: (17)

it does make sense. the ring will move but it will move very little and the amount that it will move will not have an noticable effect. the ring is so close to the center of the wheels that the centrifugal force will unnoticable.

Larry

iTrader: (4)

Lets see if I understand what you are saying. If you balance with the ring centered in the wheel then on the car assuming the ring shifts maximum then the amount of imbalance is acceptable. If you balance with the ring off center then the amount of imbalance would be unacceptable? This would result in approximately twice the amount of imbalance verses having the ring centered during balancing.

Weld needs to work on their design!

jimmypop13

iTrader: (17)

I have no clue what this thing looks like or anything but if you wanted it to stay centered when you put the wheel on the car, couldn't you like just use something small and sticky to hold it there and then bolt the wheel on? Something small that wouldn't matter if it was in there or not like a piece of ticky tack or a little piece of gum or a dab of glue or just somethin to hold the ring in place until you bolt it on cuz it won't move again once it's bolted on. Would this work at all?
-Chris

Larry

iTrader: (4)

Wheels are balanced. After four tries the car is nice and smooth.

First shop just didn't do the job right. But thank heavens for Discount Tire. They got it right!

Tally, You were right, the little movement of that loose ring apparently doesn't make that much difference. It was loose when they balanced the tires and loose when I installed them on the car. But no vibration now.