Alcohol Injection & Nitrous? Help
02-18-2005, 01:15 AM
#1
On The Tree
Thread Starter
iTrader: (-2)
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: amarillo,tx
Posts: 191
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Alcohol Injection & Nitrous? Help I would like to run an alcohol injection setup so that I can safely spray a 300 shot on my car. mods are in my sig. Do you think this will work? I would appreciate all input. TIA.
02-18-2005, 01:46 AM
#2
Originally Posted by Orange Crush 408
I would like to run an alcohol injection setup so that I can safely spray a 300 shot on my car. mods are in my sig. Do you think this will work? I would appreciate all input. TIA.
02-18-2005, 01:54 AM
#3
Restricted User
iTrader: (9)
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Sierra Vista, AZ
Posts: 7,603
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Running the Meth on the wet side was being discussed earlier. I would think you need to get with Snow Inc, they should have a jet pattern for use w. Nitrous by now. Not much different than using Propane with Nitrous (Pro-Pain Inc.), higher octane, cooler charge = more power. I am in the infant planning stages of this setup myself, still aquiring parts while I sit and rot in Afghanistan. Good luck.
Charlie
Charlie
02-18-2005, 02:08 AM
#4
Originally Posted by CAT3
Running the Meth on the wet side was being discussed earlier. I would think you need to get with Snow Inc, they should have a jet pattern for use w. Nitrous by now. Not much different than using Propane with Nitrous (Pro-Pain Inc.), higher octane, cooler charge = more power. I am in the infant planning stages of this setup myself, still aquiring parts while I sit and rot in Afghanistan. Good luck.
Charlie
Charlie
02-18-2005, 02:13 AM
#6
Originally Posted by CAT3
Flipper, how you know that? You been experimenting or something?
02-18-2005, 02:19 AM
#7
Restricted User
iTrader: (9)
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Sierra Vista, AZ
Posts: 7,603
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
yep, seen pics before, and then just replied to the other thread. damn it I am jealous. Good luck, and if you dont want to post for all, you can always pm me about the results and adjustments. Thanks
Charlie
Charlie
Trending Topics
02-20-2005, 12:08 AM
#10
On The Tree
Thread Starter
iTrader: (-2)
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: amarillo,tx
Posts: 191
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I am not sure, I am new to this alcohol &meth thing.I need to know the best way, so I can keep this motor alive with out going to a direct port.
02-20-2005, 03:00 AM
#11
Restricted User
iTrader: (9)
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Sierra Vista, AZ
Posts: 7,603
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I got ya. Need to look at fuel usage myself. I want to run the meth/nitrous combo in hopes of trying to avoid the issues of dumping the rails when it hits. Plus the increased Octane and ability to keep timing up some.
02-20-2005, 04:15 PM
#12
On The Tree
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 196
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
OC,
To clarify are you are talking about using meth for the wet side of the kit, or using meth supplmentation to a n2o/gasoline setup?
Unfortunately in the last thread I discussed this, people misunderstood me and started talking about adding supplemental methanol injection on top of their n2o/gasoline setups. Replacing the gasoline in the wet side with methanol is better by leaps and bounds.
With gasoline, if you run rich you lose power but if you run lean you blow the motor up.
With methanol there is much less power loss from running rich because methanol has an oxygen atom in each molecule. The result of the oxygen atom is an addition to the combustion energy that nearly offsets the power loss of running rich. This is perfect because running rich costs nearly no power.
So, with gasoline you're stuck between a rock and a hard place, deciding if you want to blow it up or make less power. With methanol you dont have to make that decision, you just run it rich and you get the power and the safety.
So, the key to running methanol/n2o is to run the methanol very rich. Not just rich enough to compensate for the N2O, and not just enough so that the N2O/Meth mixture is rich. You need to inject enough excess methanol to cause the N2O/Meth mixture rich, and to also swing the base Air/Gasoline mixture to the rich side.
One thing you need to be aware of, is it takes a serious fuel system to drive the methanol. Because part of the methanol molecule is oxygen, only part of the methanol is useful for richening the mixture (vs gasoline where virtually all of it richens the mixture). This is why stoich for methanol is 6.4:1, vs 14.6:1 for gasoline.
As a result of this, you need twice as much fuel system to pump the methanol. So, if you want a 300hp nitrous system, a typical fuel pump that would provide 300hp worth of gasoline wont cut it.
The pump you want is the Mallory 4140A. (140LPH, compatible with alcohol). The pump that comes with the snow kit will not cut it.
Steve
To clarify are you are talking about using meth for the wet side of the kit, or using meth supplmentation to a n2o/gasoline setup?
Unfortunately in the last thread I discussed this, people misunderstood me and started talking about adding supplemental methanol injection on top of their n2o/gasoline setups. Replacing the gasoline in the wet side with methanol is better by leaps and bounds.
With gasoline, if you run rich you lose power but if you run lean you blow the motor up.
With methanol there is much less power loss from running rich because methanol has an oxygen atom in each molecule. The result of the oxygen atom is an addition to the combustion energy that nearly offsets the power loss of running rich. This is perfect because running rich costs nearly no power.
So, with gasoline you're stuck between a rock and a hard place, deciding if you want to blow it up or make less power. With methanol you dont have to make that decision, you just run it rich and you get the power and the safety.
So, the key to running methanol/n2o is to run the methanol very rich. Not just rich enough to compensate for the N2O, and not just enough so that the N2O/Meth mixture is rich. You need to inject enough excess methanol to cause the N2O/Meth mixture rich, and to also swing the base Air/Gasoline mixture to the rich side.
One thing you need to be aware of, is it takes a serious fuel system to drive the methanol. Because part of the methanol molecule is oxygen, only part of the methanol is useful for richening the mixture (vs gasoline where virtually all of it richens the mixture). This is why stoich for methanol is 6.4:1, vs 14.6:1 for gasoline.
As a result of this, you need twice as much fuel system to pump the methanol. So, if you want a 300hp nitrous system, a typical fuel pump that would provide 300hp worth of gasoline wont cut it.
The pump you want is the Mallory 4140A. (140LPH, compatible with alcohol). The pump that comes with the snow kit will not cut it.
Steve
02-20-2005, 09:21 PM
#13
Teching In
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: topeka ks
Posts: 9
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
i have read that it takes 3 times the amount of methanol as fuel for this.
how could you possibly atomize enough methanol to make this work? and still not puddle in the intake? has it been done, or just theorized upon? i want to know because this is what i want to do
but i was actually thinking of adapting one of nitro dave's direct port systems to spray the meth as the fuel portion of the wet setup. i thought that this would prevent the puddling, just wondered how well it really works putting that much fluid in the combustion chambers.
hope to read lots of opinions
thanks
chris
how could you possibly atomize enough methanol to make this work? and still not puddle in the intake? has it been done, or just theorized upon? i want to know because this is what i want to do
but i was actually thinking of adapting one of nitro dave's direct port systems to spray the meth as the fuel portion of the wet setup. i thought that this would prevent the puddling, just wondered how well it really works putting that much fluid in the combustion chambers.
hope to read lots of opinions
thanks
chris
