Vette Rear O2s - experience / performance / longevity
04-25-2005, 11:41 AM
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Vette Rear O2s - experience / performance / longevity Just about to buy a pair for the headers I've got
coming. Wondering about peoples' experience on
the three major options -
Bosch 13111
Denso 234-4617
Delphi 25317697
- in these areas:
1) Did it eliminate low-flow closed loop trim issues
2) How long has it lasted (in proper behavior)
Seen mostly recommendations to get the Bosch, a
few saying the Delphi didn't work as well, and about
nothing on the Denso; however the Denso's anti-
fouling looks appealing if the performance (wattage)
is there.
coming. Wondering about peoples' experience on
the three major options -
Bosch 13111
Denso 234-4617
Delphi 25317697
- in these areas:
1) Did it eliminate low-flow closed loop trim issues
2) How long has it lasted (in proper behavior)
Seen mostly recommendations to get the Bosch, a
few saying the Delphi didn't work as well, and about
nothing on the Denso; however the Denso's anti-
fouling looks appealing if the performance (wattage)
is there.
04-25-2005, 12:38 PM
#4
I can't comment on the Vette rear application, but my Denso F-body fronts took a real beating on the road course yesterday and held up fine.
It took me 4 4-session road course events before my first AC Delco sensor failed, we'll see how the Denso replacements fare.
It took me 4 4-session road course events before my first AC Delco sensor failed, we'll see how the Denso replacements fare.
04-25-2005, 04:06 PM
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Higher wattage will make them respond more like normal,
despite heat loss from the headers. I believe all of them
have higher wattage. But also that there may be other
differences in construction that make one better than
the others, for this (non-standard) application.
Denso claims some lead and silicone resistance from their
alumina barrier technology. I just haven't seen anything
out of people using the 'vette rear, denso number, on a
F-body car with headers.
I appreciate the search advice. Really. So kind of you to
educate a new boy like me. But all those O2 threads,
most of which have my posts in them, don't go to the
point I've asked about. Which is why I asked it.
despite heat loss from the headers. I believe all of them
have higher wattage. But also that there may be other
differences in construction that make one better than
the others, for this (non-standard) application.
Denso claims some lead and silicone resistance from their
alumina barrier technology. I just haven't seen anything
out of people using the 'vette rear, denso number, on a
F-body car with headers.
I appreciate the search advice. Really. So kind of you to
educate a new boy like me. But all those O2 threads,
most of which have my posts in them, don't go to the
point I've asked about. Which is why I asked it.
04-25-2005, 04:12 PM
#7
WS6FirebirdTA00 - The denso's are just simply a better made, strong unit, supposedly.
JimmyBlue - Glad to see youre moving up to long tubes - however long overdue! After my stockers failed in the fall, i switched over to bosch 13111's. one of these failed right away within two weeks or so. Got one warrantied at autozone and all was well right up until about a month ago when during inclement weather, the SES would come back on. Now its on all the time sue to insufficient switching. I dont want to bother replacing these with more bosch's, id rather take my chances with a different brand.
Whats more, I dont know how to explain it, but i can swear that the car has idled rougher as soon as i switched from the stock o2 sensors to the bosch's. My guess is that 450 mv does not exactly equal 14.7:1. Some others have complained about the boshes making their cars run like crap, but nobody has pinpointed the reason.
Ill probably be investing in some denso's shortly and then ill have first hand experience with them, unfortunately nobody locally sells them. Im strapped for mod money since im trying to get all my cam swap parts togather, so ill probably try and burn the dying bosch o2s off with a propane torch and see if i can buy a little more time.
JimmyBlue - Glad to see youre moving up to long tubes - however long overdue! After my stockers failed in the fall, i switched over to bosch 13111's. one of these failed right away within two weeks or so. Got one warrantied at autozone and all was well right up until about a month ago when during inclement weather, the SES would come back on. Now its on all the time sue to insufficient switching. I dont want to bother replacing these with more bosch's, id rather take my chances with a different brand.
Whats more, I dont know how to explain it, but i can swear that the car has idled rougher as soon as i switched from the stock o2 sensors to the bosch's. My guess is that 450 mv does not exactly equal 14.7:1. Some others have complained about the boshes making their cars run like crap, but nobody has pinpointed the reason.
Ill probably be investing in some denso's shortly and then ill have first hand experience with them, unfortunately nobody locally sells them. Im strapped for mod money since im trying to get all my cam swap parts togather, so ill probably try and burn the dying bosch o2s off with a propane torch and see if i can buy a little more time.
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04-25-2005, 04:22 PM
#8
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Where can one purchase Denso sensors? I need to replace my OEM ones.. car's sitting w/out a trans now so I haven't started it... I can return my 13111s ...
The only Denso's I've found have been the universl ones... that looks like they want you to cut the connector off the stock O2 and rewire?
The only Denso's I've found have been the universl ones... that looks like they want you to cut the connector off the stock O2 and rewire?
04-25-2005, 04:35 PM
#9
sparkplugs dot com has them, both universal and with the connector. The universal listed is the same p/n for front or rear, so i doubt it has a higher wattage heater... but i dont really know if any of this higher wattage stuff has even been verified...
04-25-2005, 04:45 PM
#10
i have new o2s for mine now but the idle gets a little harry trying to tune it with the bigger injectors and i figured new o2s might help a little if they are hotter, help the oscillation out some.
but when i was looking at replacements i went with GM parts becuse i kept reading about bad things with bosch, could be a tuning issue, i didnt have hp tuners at the time so i had no way to fix it if it was due to tuning, so i went with stockers. ill get a screen shot of how they idles before when hot, it was rediculously good, which is why i wondered why others had issues, that i now have after the injectors lol
but when i was looking at replacements i went with GM parts becuse i kept reading about bad things with bosch, could be a tuning issue, i didnt have hp tuners at the time so i had no way to fix it if it was due to tuning, so i went with stockers. ill get a screen shot of how they idles before when hot, it was rediculously good, which is why i wondered why others had issues, that i now have after the injectors lol
04-25-2005, 10:06 PM
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I installed the Bosch 13111 at the start of the season, a little over a month ago. Worked great with stock internals, cam has been in a week but only a few days of driving due to a snow storm. 
But they are ok so far, no codes, they switch well IMO and I have about 500 miles on them so far.
But they are ok so far, no codes, they switch well IMO and I have about 500 miles on them so far.
04-25-2005, 10:49 PM
#13
I installed the Bosch 13111's along with my long tubes in Feburary of this year. Approx 2k-3k miles. I've not kept track. I can't say how they compared to stock o2's since I never tried them.
I've driven in all sorts of weather. 15* 80* as of this week I've driven in torrential downpours, practically hydroplaining the whole way and no SES lights at all for o2's.
My idle is no different than it was with stock manifolds and o2's. However I do run a tad rich at idle. But its not due to the o2's reading lean. At idle they show -3 -6, so its just a tuning issue. They continue to switch at idle so I assume the high wattage heater is doing its job.
I've driven in all sorts of weather. 15* 80* as of this week I've driven in torrential downpours, practically hydroplaining the whole way and no SES lights at all for o2's.
My idle is no different than it was with stock manifolds and o2's. However I do run a tad rich at idle. But its not due to the o2's reading lean. At idle they show -3 -6, so its just a tuning issue. They continue to switch at idle so I assume the high wattage heater is doing its job.
04-26-2005, 06:01 AM
#14
I have also not had any problems thus far with my Bosch O2 sensors (13111), but I've only had them in for about 1000 miles. No tuning issues so far, but all I've done so far is a bit of idle tuning. Once I get my wideband, I'll be getting the rest of the car dialed in, and I'll let you know if it causes any problems.
And it certainly doesn't run any worse...actually, the car is stronger than it ever has been.
And it certainly doesn't run any worse...actually, the car is stronger than it ever has been.
04-26-2005, 10:57 AM
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What year vette do you need to order the 02's for to get the longer wire. I have Pacesetters and my stock 02's took a dump. Also, the Bosch 13111, does that 02 have the longer wire so no cutting or splicing as to be done?
04-26-2005, 11:21 AM
#17
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the 13111 is about 2ft long maybe? It's a long cable... it's the replacement for a rear vette O2 so no splicing required
I haven't seen an actual GM vette rear, but I know a 2000 Vette rear O2 has the longer wire, and I'd imagine that's the same for all LS1 based vettes?
I haven't seen an actual GM vette rear, but I know a 2000 Vette rear O2 has the longer wire, and I'd imagine that's the same for all LS1 based vettes?
