Car not running right after heads/cam install! Please Help!!!
06-23-2005, 07:03 AM
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Car not running right after heads/cam install! Please Help!!! Hey guys,
I just took my almost bone stock 99' Trans Am (before this, I had a few intake, suspension mods and a catback. Thats IT) into a different league with the addition of a Futral Stage II heads/cam package and ALL of the supporting mods. In one weekend, all of this was installed:
Futral Stage II Heads
FM13 Cam
Futral Ported LS6 Intake
Ported TB (Cammin-Beasts)
ASP Crank & Alternator Pullies
Coated LT Headers to an Offroad Pipe
New Denso O2 Sensors
New NGK TR55 Plugs
!EGR !AIR !Rear O2 Delete
Crane Lifters
Hardened PRs
and a bunch of other small things (suspension, etc.)
Now I knew and expected that my car would be running rough after completely giving my PCM a heart attack.
We did change ALOT of stuff. I expected increased valvetrain noise, some rasp from not running cats, etc. However, I was hoping for one HELL of a bang when i tapped the throttle for the first time, and you really cant feel the power at ALL yet in this car. 
I have been told that a good dynotune should clear up any problems and delete all of my codes that I threw, so I am scheduled for a full tune first thing tommorow morning at the VEtte Doctors in Long Island. My question to the pros is, shouldnt I be able to feel the power at least a little bit??? 
Right now, the car feels about as powerful as it did stock with the mods below, it just runs ALOT rougher!!! I know I have a *couple exhaust leaks here and there from around the Ypipe that I need to tighten up before i bring it to them tommorow morning, and my cat back (Borla by the way) needs to be adjusted because it is hitting the underside of the car somewhere now and causing some vibration. (but I doubt any of that could be killing THAT much power) I just dont understand it though, I was hoping for the 420RWHP range with this setup (LS1UltraZ who i bought it from put down 435 RIGHT before me, i got alot of stuff from him) and as of right now, unless the tuner can pull 120RWHP from JUST the tune, i dont see that happening at all.
The car feels like a very raspy very rough running stock LS1. ANY suggestions or advice would be VERY appreciated.. Everything was installed correctly (cam dot to dot, all supporting mods so the car isnt choked anywhere, everything torqued to spec, etc.) so I dont know what or if we did anything wrong. PLEASE HELP!!! 
I just took my almost bone stock 99' Trans Am (before this, I had a few intake, suspension mods and a catback. Thats IT) into a different league with the addition of a Futral Stage II heads/cam package and ALL of the supporting mods. In one weekend, all of this was installed:
Futral Stage II Heads
FM13 Cam
Futral Ported LS6 Intake
Ported TB (Cammin-Beasts)
ASP Crank & Alternator Pullies
Coated LT Headers to an Offroad Pipe
New Denso O2 Sensors
New NGK TR55 Plugs
!EGR !AIR !Rear O2 Delete
Crane Lifters
Hardened PRs
and a bunch of other small things (suspension, etc.)
Now I knew and expected that my car would be running rough after completely giving my PCM a heart attack.
We did change ALOT of stuff. I expected increased valvetrain noise, some rasp from not running cats, etc. However, I was hoping for one HELL of a bang when i tapped the throttle for the first time, and you really cant feel the power at ALL yet in this car. I have been told that a good dynotune should clear up any problems and delete all of my codes that I threw, so I am scheduled for a full tune first thing tommorow morning at the VEtte Doctors in Long Island. My question to the pros is, shouldnt I be able to feel the power at least a little bit??? Right now, the car feels about as powerful as it did stock with the mods below, it just runs ALOT rougher!!! I know I have a *couple exhaust leaks here and there from around the Ypipe that I need to tighten up before i bring it to them tommorow morning, and my cat back (Borla by the way) needs to be adjusted because it is hitting the underside of the car somewhere now and causing some vibration. (but I doubt any of that could be killing THAT much power) I just dont understand it though, I was hoping for the 420RWHP range with this setup (LS1UltraZ who i bought it from put down 435 RIGHT before me, i got alot of stuff from him) and as of right now, unless the tuner can pull 120RWHP from JUST the tune, i dont see that happening at all. The car feels like a very raspy very rough running stock LS1. ANY suggestions or advice would be VERY appreciated..
Everything was installed correctly (cam dot to dot, all supporting mods so the car isnt choked anywhere, everything torqued to spec, etc.) so I dont know what or if we did anything wrong. PLEASE HELP!!! 
06-23-2005, 08:28 AM
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Staging Lane
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Yup, fuel system is completely unchanged.
Am I expecting too much before a tune? I was expecting to feel a big difference and besides being raspier, louder and running VERY rough she still feels like a stock LS1.
Am I expecting too much before a tune? I was expecting to feel a big difference and besides being raspier, louder and running VERY rough she still feels like a stock LS1.
06-23-2005, 08:35 AM
#4
Remember, the F13 is a big cam. You should be happy it even idles on the stock tune. It's a cam that can be tuned quite effectively, but it's still 230 duration. If you have far to drive, get Futral to do you a custom mail order tune, which will clean it up a lot. Then get the dynotune to boost the power and make it 100% driveable.
06-23-2005, 08:44 AM
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It actually idles pretty decent (better than I expected). Besides the car runing very rough, it is very driveable. The car fires up first turn of the key like stock and finds it idle immediatly. I am hoping Carmen at Vette Doctors can work some magic tommorow because my optimism is low right now.
On another possibility, I was told by a friend that it could be my 02' sensors. We just put new ones in when we did everything (Densos) and appartently the coating on the headers fuggers em up really bad. Not sure if that could cause such issues though either??
On another possibility, I was told by a friend that it could be my 02' sensors. We just put new ones in when we did everything (Densos) and appartently the coating on the headers fuggers em up really bad. Not sure if that could cause such issues though either??
06-23-2005, 08:51 AM
#6
The F-13 has always idled well on stock tune despite their size. Honestly I don't see why you don't have a tremendous increase in power. I ran my cam on stock tune and didn't even notice much of a difference in power after the tune. To be honest with you I don't really know what's up. It could be preload issues with the lifters, could be that the new 02's aren't reading well or aren't hooked up right, for some reason I feel it is fuel related. What kind of gas are you running. I'd say get it tuned and see what's going on from there.
Let us know this is fairly interesting to me.
Let us know this is fairly interesting to me.
06-23-2005, 09:08 AM
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Ive been running 93 octane in her since teh install. I have heard that the F13 handles very well on a stock tune as well, which is why i was expecting my car to be a beast when this was all over! My buddy just installed his FM13 (cam on stock heads) and he felt the power increase immediatly. On stock heads, his car would smoke mine as it sits right now..
If one or both of my 02 sensors did get fugged up, how would I be able to tell? I already have like 5 other codes in there that need to be deleted so looking for the SES light isnt going to work.
What other fuel problems coudl it be? I have to drive the car like 2.5 hours tommorow to get to this place in Long Island traffic so having to go up there in another week or so if theres a problem would SUCK.
My buddy just installed his FM13 (cam on stock heads) and he felt the power increase immediatly. On stock heads, his car would smoke mine as it sits right now..If one or both of my 02 sensors did get fugged up, how would I be able to tell? I already have like 5 other codes in there that need to be deleted so looking for the SES light isnt going to work.
What other fuel problems coudl it be? I have to drive the car like 2.5 hours tommorow to get to this place in Long Island traffic so having to go up there in another week or so if theres a problem would SUCK.
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06-23-2005, 10:04 AM
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Just talked to Candi at Futral again, she relieved me of some worries. 
We are hoping the car is just running REALLY rich, and that along with all of the codes I threw ripping stuff out that it is causing the car to basically run like crap. After speaking with Allan she informed me I really should feel at least *some increase in power at WOT, but that all of the problems I could have right now may be preventing me from noticing it.
The car will be tuned first thing tommorow morning so I will keep everyone posted. Any other advice/opinions/troubleshooting is appreciated!
One last thing, for anyone who hasnt dealt with them, I seriously cant say enough good things about Futral Motorsports.
I spoke with them on and off for a month trying to pick out my current setup. I ended up buying it used (almost new however) from a member here rather than purchasing it directly from them. Even though I didnt buy it new directly from them (which in many cases can mean a company will not worry about your problems as much), EVERY SINGLE time I have called them about ANYTHING they have been great to me. Both Candi and Allan have given me advice on this entire setup (they both REALLY know their stuff), and their customer service is a big reason I went with parts engraved with their name, and will be buying as much as i can from them in the future. That phone call a few minutes ago is yet another great example of that. 
We are hoping the car is just running REALLY rich, and that along with all of the codes I threw ripping stuff out that it is causing the car to basically run like crap. After speaking with Allan she informed me I really should feel at least *some increase in power at WOT, but that all of the problems I could have right now may be preventing me from noticing it.
The car will be tuned first thing tommorow morning so I will keep everyone posted. Any other advice/opinions/troubleshooting is appreciated!
One last thing, for anyone who hasnt dealt with them, I seriously cant say enough good things about Futral Motorsports.
I spoke with them on and off for a month trying to pick out my current setup. I ended up buying it used (almost new however) from a member here rather than purchasing it directly from them. Even though I didnt buy it new directly from them (which in many cases can mean a company will not worry about your problems as much), EVERY SINGLE time I have called them about ANYTHING they have been great to me. Both Candi and Allan have given me advice on this entire setup (they both REALLY know their stuff), and their customer service is a big reason I went with parts engraved with their name, and will be buying as much as i can from them in the future. That phone call a few minutes ago is yet another great example of that. 
06-23-2005, 10:51 AM
#11
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Originally Posted by 2xLS1
If you can, list all the codes you are getting. Some of them may not be related to deleting EGR, AIR, and rear O2s and may need to be addressed before you tune.
06-23-2005, 11:22 AM
#12
im running 38# injectors an im getting 62% duty cycle not even at 6800, only got up to 5500 at WOT. im guessing to see somewhere in the range of 70% duty cycle. i planned these injectors to beable to support about 480-490 rwhp at 80% but right now im only expecting to see 430-440. you definately would benefit from some larger injectors i woudl think
06-23-2005, 12:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Lightning
Just talked to Candi at Futral again, she relieved me of some worries.
One last thing, for anyone who hasnt dealt with them, I seriously cant say enough good things about Futral Motorsports. I spoke with them on and off for a month trying to pick out my current setup. I ended up buying it used (almost new however) from a member here rather than purchasing it directly from them. Even though I didnt buy it new directly from them (which in many cases can mean a company will not worry about your problems as much), EVERY SINGLE time I have called them about ANYTHING they have been great to me. Both Candi and Allan have given me advice on this entire setup (they both REALLY know their stuff), and their customer service is a big reason I went with parts engraved with their name, and will be buying as much as i can from them in the future. That phone call a few minutes ago is yet another great example of that.
One last thing, for anyone who hasnt dealt with them, I seriously cant say enough good things about Futral Motorsports.
I spoke with them on and off for a month trying to pick out my current setup. I ended up buying it used (almost new however) from a member here rather than purchasing it directly from them. Even though I didnt buy it new directly from them (which in many cases can mean a company will not worry about your problems as much), EVERY SINGLE time I have called them about ANYTHING they have been great to me. Both Candi and Allan have given me advice on this entire setup (they both REALLY know their stuff), and their customer service is a big reason I went with parts engraved with their name, and will be buying as much as i can from them in the future. That phone call a few minutes ago is yet another great example of that. 
I hope you find your lost power, from all I've read I agree that 420rwhp sounds like a reasonable mark for your combo. Wide band readings will tell you the fuel story, if that's not it somebody else mentioned preloading on the valvetrain...that kinda makes sense too. But I'm no expert and will likely be posting "PEASE HELP THREADS" myself.
Good luck
06-23-2005, 12:03 PM
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Originally Posted by 2xLS1
98: 28.6 #
99-00: 26.8 #
01+: 28.8 #
99-00: 26.8 #
01+: 28.8 #
06-23-2005, 12:15 PM
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Thanks for the help and advice guys, all of it is being utilized as we speak.
What would you guys reccomend as far as injectors go? Id love to say money isnt an issue but being that i just spent 4Gs or so on mods, its beginning to get tight! Any opinions on what would give me the best bang for the buck? Should I look at used injectors/fuel systems, etc?
ssheets Im glad you had great service at Futral as well. I have dealt with a bunch of companies over the course of the year while planning this setup, and I have never had someone stop what they were doing in a busy shop, ask me questions, and help me to work out issues with my car the way Futral has in the past 6 months. I was on the phone with Candi before for like a half hour, and the only time she put me on hold was to double check with Allan about stuff I asked her!! They have gained a very loyal customer from all this.
What would you guys reccomend as far as injectors go? Id love to say money isnt an issue but being that i just spent 4Gs or so on mods, its beginning to get tight!
Any opinions on what would give me the best bang for the buck? Should I look at used injectors/fuel systems, etc? ssheets Im glad you had great service at Futral as well.
I have dealt with a bunch of companies over the course of the year while planning this setup, and I have never had someone stop what they were doing in a busy shop, ask me questions, and help me to work out issues with my car the way Futral has in the past 6 months. I was on the phone with Candi before for like a half hour, and the only time she put me on hold was to double check with Allan about stuff I asked her!! They have gained a very loyal customer from all this.
06-23-2005, 05:04 PM
#18
Hey Lightning,
Did you do all the work yourself on the car? How did you do the cam swap and all the other stuff? I'll end up buying my head and cam from them as soon as I get more money (and finish paying off the car ) please PM me so I can learn from experiance. Thanks
Did you do all the work yourself on the car? How did you do the cam swap and all the other stuff? I'll end up buying my head and cam from them as soon as I get more money (and finish paying off the car
) please PM me so I can learn from experiance. Thanks
06-23-2005, 05:29 PM
#19
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Short run or long run? Short run a set of 28.8 01/02. Those should be good till ~450rwhp (I remember TSP having sets for like $99 or so)
Long run SVO 30 pounders
Long run SVO 30 pounders
06-23-2005, 06:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Lightning
I was on the phone with Candi before for like a half hour, and the only time she put me on hold was to double check with Allan about stuff I asked her!! They have gained a very loyal customer from all this.
