Info on Houston and Concealed Handgun LAws
08-30-2005, 10:12 AM
#1
6600 rpm clutch dump of death Administrator
Thread Starter
Info on Houston and Concealed Handgun LAws Whatever your position on firearms, I found the flagrant disregard for the constitution, the law, the legislature, and fundamental concepts of due process and civil rights demonstrated by the DA and HPD in this article to be so shocking as to require me to distribute it widely.
DA opposed to new handgun law
Pistol-toting drivers without a permit will still be prosecuted, Rosenthal warns
By CLAY ROBISON
Copyright 2005 Houston Chronicle Austin Bureau
AUSTIN - Motorists arrested for carrying pistols in their cars without a concealed handgun license will continue to be prosecuted in Houston, despite a new law that purports to give them a legal defense, Harris County District Attorney Chuck Rosenthal said Monday.
ADVERTISEMENT
Although the sponsor said the law should reduce the number of arrests for unlawful handgun possession, Rosenthal said it won't change enforcement practices in Houston after it goes into effect on Thursday.
"It is still going to be against the law for (unlicensed) persons to carry handguns in autos," the district attorney said, adding that the new legal defense can still be challenged by prosecutors.
The new law, enacted during the regular legislative session last spring, seeks to clarify a longtime law that allowed Texans to carry handguns while traveling, a qualification that was subject to a number of inconsistent court interpretations over the years.
The new statute says a person is "presumed to be traveling" if he or she is in a private vehicle, is not engaged in criminal activity (except for a minor traffic offense), is not prohibited by any other law from possessing a firearm and is not a member of a criminal street gang.
It also requires the handgun to be concealed in the car, although weapons can be discovered by officers during routine traffic stops if a driver gives permission for a car to be searched or opens a glove compartment where a gun is secured to retrieve an insurance card or other documentation.
"The intent of the law is to keep innocent people from going to jail," said the sponsor, Rep. Terry Keel, R-Austin, a former prosecutor and former Travis County sheriff who now is a candidate for the Texas Court of Criminal Appeals.
The law, House Bill 823, was supported by the National Rifle Association and the American Civil Liberties Union and opposed by various law-enforcement groups.
More than 237,000 Texans have concealed handgun licenses. But many other law-abiding adults don't have licenses because they are disqualified by exceptions that have nothing to do with public safety, said Alice Tripp, a lobbyist for the Texas State Rifle Association, an NRA affiliate.
Tripp said people who have defaulted on student loans, who owe the state sales tax or franchise tax payments or are behind in child support payments are ineligible to receive a license.
Keel said he hoped the law will prompt police officers to think twice about arresting motorists who meet the new legal presumption and spare them the expense and "indignity" of arrest and prosecution.
Otherwise, he said, "They basically are going to arrest innocent people and make them prove their innocence."
Rosenthal and Rob Kepple, executive director of the Texas District and County Attorneys Association, disagreed.
Rosenthal said the new presumption about "traveling" doesn't define what constitutes traveling and can be challenged in court by prosecutors, leaving it to juries to decide verdicts "based upon the facts of the case."
A prosecutor could summon witnesses to successfully argue that a defendant wasn't traveling because he was simply "driving around the corner for a carton of milk," Kepple said.
"I really don't think (the law) should affect how police officers respond in arresting somebody," he added.
Houston Police Department spokeswoman Johanna Abad indicated Houston police were going to take their advice from Rosenthal's office.
Unlawful possession of a weapon is a class A misdemeanor punishable by as much as one year in county jail and a $4,000 fine. Rosenthal said most cases are resolved through plea bargains.
The prosecutor said he asked Gov. Rick Perry to veto the bill because "taking weapons off the street is a pretty good deal." He said his office handled about 5,000 weapons cases of varying degrees of severity last year.
Tripp called Rosenthal's opposition a case of "sour grapes ... and a threat to the general public."
clay.robison@chron.com
DA opposed to new handgun law
Pistol-toting drivers without a permit will still be prosecuted, Rosenthal warns
By CLAY ROBISON
Copyright 2005 Houston Chronicle Austin Bureau
AUSTIN - Motorists arrested for carrying pistols in their cars without a concealed handgun license will continue to be prosecuted in Houston, despite a new law that purports to give them a legal defense, Harris County District Attorney Chuck Rosenthal said Monday.
ADVERTISEMENT
Although the sponsor said the law should reduce the number of arrests for unlawful handgun possession, Rosenthal said it won't change enforcement practices in Houston after it goes into effect on Thursday.
"It is still going to be against the law for (unlicensed) persons to carry handguns in autos," the district attorney said, adding that the new legal defense can still be challenged by prosecutors.
The new law, enacted during the regular legislative session last spring, seeks to clarify a longtime law that allowed Texans to carry handguns while traveling, a qualification that was subject to a number of inconsistent court interpretations over the years.
The new statute says a person is "presumed to be traveling" if he or she is in a private vehicle, is not engaged in criminal activity (except for a minor traffic offense), is not prohibited by any other law from possessing a firearm and is not a member of a criminal street gang.
It also requires the handgun to be concealed in the car, although weapons can be discovered by officers during routine traffic stops if a driver gives permission for a car to be searched or opens a glove compartment where a gun is secured to retrieve an insurance card or other documentation.
"The intent of the law is to keep innocent people from going to jail," said the sponsor, Rep. Terry Keel, R-Austin, a former prosecutor and former Travis County sheriff who now is a candidate for the Texas Court of Criminal Appeals.
The law, House Bill 823, was supported by the National Rifle Association and the American Civil Liberties Union and opposed by various law-enforcement groups.
More than 237,000 Texans have concealed handgun licenses. But many other law-abiding adults don't have licenses because they are disqualified by exceptions that have nothing to do with public safety, said Alice Tripp, a lobbyist for the Texas State Rifle Association, an NRA affiliate.
Tripp said people who have defaulted on student loans, who owe the state sales tax or franchise tax payments or are behind in child support payments are ineligible to receive a license.
Keel said he hoped the law will prompt police officers to think twice about arresting motorists who meet the new legal presumption and spare them the expense and "indignity" of arrest and prosecution.
Otherwise, he said, "They basically are going to arrest innocent people and make them prove their innocence."
Rosenthal and Rob Kepple, executive director of the Texas District and County Attorneys Association, disagreed.
Rosenthal said the new presumption about "traveling" doesn't define what constitutes traveling and can be challenged in court by prosecutors, leaving it to juries to decide verdicts "based upon the facts of the case."
A prosecutor could summon witnesses to successfully argue that a defendant wasn't traveling because he was simply "driving around the corner for a carton of milk," Kepple said.
"I really don't think (the law) should affect how police officers respond in arresting somebody," he added.
Houston Police Department spokeswoman Johanna Abad indicated Houston police were going to take their advice from Rosenthal's office.
Unlawful possession of a weapon is a class A misdemeanor punishable by as much as one year in county jail and a $4,000 fine. Rosenthal said most cases are resolved through plea bargains.
The prosecutor said he asked Gov. Rick Perry to veto the bill because "taking weapons off the street is a pretty good deal." He said his office handled about 5,000 weapons cases of varying degrees of severity last year.
Tripp called Rosenthal's opposition a case of "sour grapes ... and a threat to the general public."
clay.robison@chron.com
08-30-2005, 10:33 AM
#2
TECH Senior Member
iTrader: (10)
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Gainesville, Denton TX
Posts: 8,766
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thats ridiculous. So they are trying to override a law enstated by the State of Texas, and will then have more court cases, and cost the tax payers more money?
Of course, considering money allows for attorney fees, one could appeal to a higher court, where it should be dropped, as its a state law....
Correct?
Of course, considering money allows for attorney fees, one could appeal to a higher court, where it should be dropped, as its a state law....
Correct?
08-30-2005, 10:58 AM
#4
Well just hope you dont get pulled over by the wrong cop that listens to this BS. The law is that you can carry one in the vehicle, without a permit, and a lot of people will be doing just that.
How much is a CCW now days and how long to get one. I think that next time I am in town for a week or longer I will go take the class. I have already been lic to be a armed security gard, so no problems getting a CCW.
JET
How much is a CCW now days and how long to get one. I think that next time I am in town for a week or longer I will go take the class. I have already been lic to be a armed security gard, so no problems getting a CCW.
JET
08-30-2005, 11:03 AM
#5
12 Second Club
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: In the big city of Houston and big state of Texas.
Posts: 295
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
yeah I think I need the lessons too. The Gun Lic. Dept. # is 713-302-6800. I will give them a call and see what happens. I think its an 8 to 12 hr. course. Most of us dont have that much time to spend, trying to get a gun lic.
08-30-2005, 11:08 AM
#6
TECH Resident
iTrader: (6)
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Houston
Posts: 823
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by JETG
Well just hope you dont get pulled over by the wrong cop that listens to this BS. The law is that you can carry one in the vehicle, without a permit, and a lot of people will be doing just that.
How much is a CCW now days and how long to get one. I think that next time I am in town for a week or longer I will go take the class. I have already been lic to be a armed security gard, so no problems getting a CCW.
JET
How much is a CCW now days and how long to get one. I think that next time I am in town for a week or longer I will go take the class. I have already been lic to be a armed security gard, so no problems getting a CCW.
JET
Usually about $110 for a class and $140 for the state. It has to be renewed every four years which means you take another class but for about $70 and send $70 to the state for renewal.
Brian
08-30-2005, 11:36 AM
#7
Originally Posted by Hagarr
Usually about $110 for a class and $140 for the state. It has to be renewed every four years which means you take another class but for about $70 and send $70 to the state for renewal.
Brian
Brian
Ya that aint to bad 250 total for 4 years. I would do that for sure, well I will have to set that up to go take the class would be worth it to not get pulled over and be harrassed by a cop, cause I have a pistol in the car.
JET
Trending Topics
08-30-2005, 01:16 PM
#8
TECH Resident
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: NW H-town
Posts: 772
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
FYI-a bill just passed that makes renewals good for 5 years. Your initial license is good for 4 years I believe, but renewals are good for 5.
This new bill that defines Traveling has been debated very much between gun enthusiasts and attorneys as well. I would not start carrying in a car until there have been a few court decisions on this, and Im sure it will not take long considering the amount of people that carry in their vehicles without a license, and Im sure that many of those people will meet the requirements for the presumption to be travelling.
I have a CHL, so the new law doesnt concern me very much, Id recommend anyone that wants to carry a gun, to get theirs aswell. Not only will it give you peace of mind, but you will also get a lot of good information regarding the justified use of lethal force, justified threat of lethal force, and lots of other things you should know before carrying a gun-because without knowing the laws, you could find yourself in jail even when you think your in the right.
What is really bothering me by the story, is whos side is the DA on? If (god forbid) im involved in a shooting-who is he going to feel sorry for? Me? Or the poor crackhead who was trying to stab me? Because we all know that violent criminals are just a result of their environment and society is to blame for their actions-not them.
That may sound crazy but its not. The good guys, who have fired in defense of their own lives, have been treated like evil gun carrying murderers, while the 17yr old gang banger who put a pistol in their face and tried to rob them were treated as a "helpless victim" who was simply on his way to his boyscout meeting.
Even though I heard the Harris Co DA was CHL friendly, Im beginning to wonder.
This new bill that defines Traveling has been debated very much between gun enthusiasts and attorneys as well. I would not start carrying in a car until there have been a few court decisions on this, and Im sure it will not take long considering the amount of people that carry in their vehicles without a license, and Im sure that many of those people will meet the requirements for the presumption to be travelling.
I have a CHL, so the new law doesnt concern me very much, Id recommend anyone that wants to carry a gun, to get theirs aswell. Not only will it give you peace of mind, but you will also get a lot of good information regarding the justified use of lethal force, justified threat of lethal force, and lots of other things you should know before carrying a gun-because without knowing the laws, you could find yourself in jail even when you think your in the right.
What is really bothering me by the story, is whos side is the DA on? If (god forbid) im involved in a shooting-who is he going to feel sorry for? Me? Or the poor crackhead who was trying to stab me? Because we all know that violent criminals are just a result of their environment and society is to blame for their actions-not them.
That may sound crazy but its not. The good guys, who have fired in defense of their own lives, have been treated like evil gun carrying murderers, while the 17yr old gang banger who put a pistol in their face and tried to rob them were treated as a "helpless victim" who was simply on his way to his boyscout meeting.
Even though I heard the Harris Co DA was CHL friendly, Im beginning to wonder.
08-30-2005, 03:59 PM
#10
TECH Veteran
Originally Posted by Nine Ball
I'm 32 and I've never felt the need to roll around town strapped. But, if I decide I want to carry, I'll get my CHL. Thats not too much to ask.
08-30-2005, 05:27 PM
#11
TECH Resident
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: NW H-town
Posts: 772
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by JackZ28
Well put, Tony. Not every swinging banana needs to have a weapon on them, anyway.
Speaking for myself here,I have a pregnant gf, a 3 1/2 year old, and myself to look after. I dont go through life with that "nothing ever happens to me" mentality because something eventually does happen. Instead I keep the "IF something does happen to me-Ill be prepared" mentality. All it takes is a glimpse at the local news, and youll see the words "killed,shot,stabbed,raped,murdered,kidnapped, home-invasion" on a daily basis here in Houston.
08-30-2005, 05:51 PM
#12
TECH Junkie
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Katy, TX
Posts: 3,037
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by SJRTX
Huh? What Tony said applies only to him. If he does not feel like he needs to carry a gun then that is his choice. Sorry for the confusion, but your statement was a little vague. Was your statement directed at people carrying a gun in their car without a license, or people that are licensed that carry all the time?
Speaking for myself here,I have a pregnant gf, a 3 1/2 year old, and myself to look after. I dont go through life with that "nothing ever happens to me" mentality because something eventually does happen. Instead I keep the "IF something does happen to me-Ill be prepared" mentality. All it takes is a glimpse at the local news, and youll see the words "killed,shot,stabbed,raped,murdered,kidnapped, home-invasion" on a daily basis here in Houston.
Speaking for myself here,I have a pregnant gf, a 3 1/2 year old, and myself to look after. I dont go through life with that "nothing ever happens to me" mentality because something eventually does happen. Instead I keep the "IF something does happen to me-Ill be prepared" mentality. All it takes is a glimpse at the local news, and youll see the words "killed,shot,stabbed,raped,murdered,kidnapped, home-invasion" on a daily basis here in Houston.
I hope the day never comes were I have to use my handgun, but I do carry it in the car often. You never want to be put in the situation were you do need to use it for self-protection in the car, home etc...
I know must of us on this site take pride in are cars, and wouldn't want a low life to rip off parts or even take the entire car.
The way I see it do not pull the weapon out unless you are 100% sure that you are going to use it and shoot to kill... DEAD MAN CAN'T TALK IN COURT....Brandon
Last edited by Strini SS; 08-30-2005 at 06:00 PM.
08-30-2005, 06:05 PM
#13
Thats fine Brandon, but why not get a CHL to carry? I plan on getting one. Lets face it though, some people SHOULD not have guns period. There are way to many punks and idiots out there that are carrying guns illegally and do stupid **** with them without thinking. Those are the ones that the laws are designed to hammer on.
08-30-2005, 06:10 PM
#14
TECH Senior Member
iTrader: (7)
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Katy, TX
Posts: 12,754
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Truthfully, I feel I should have the unquestionable right to carry a firearm of my choosing, no matter what. I shouldn't have to prove intent or prove **** to be legal to carry. The government shouldn't even be made aware of who is and who is not carrying. Lets face it - gun laws protect NOBODY, NOTHING.
Sponsored by your regular ol' ex-yankee guy who doesn't pack heat either, but feels his rights shouldn't be stepped on by some skeered poleece occifers. Next time any of you get pulled over, ask the cop if he feels the gun laws make his life safer when he pulls over a car with questionable occupants.
Sponsored by your regular ol' ex-yankee guy who doesn't pack heat either, but feels his rights shouldn't be stepped on by some skeered poleece occifers. Next time any of you get pulled over, ask the cop if he feels the gun laws make his life safer when he pulls over a car with questionable occupants.
08-30-2005, 06:18 PM
#15
TECH Junkie
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Katy, TX
Posts: 3,037
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Nine Ball
Thats fine Brandon, but why not get a CHL to carry? I plan on getting one. Lets face it though, some people SHOULD not have guns period. There are way to many punks and idiots out there that are carrying guns illegally and do stupid **** with them without thinking. Those are the ones that the laws are designed to hammer on.
I agree with you on that, but no matter what, the same thugs/ or want to be thugs will get their hands on a firearm reguardless of the laws passed. We all know how E-Z it is to purchase a simple firearm to a fully automatic assault rifle on the streets of any city. But what I don't understand is you passed whatever back grown check they do when you purchased the firearm(Legally) you should be able to carry it in your car etc. Its like the FBI, local DA, Police officer are saying its ok to spend $500+ on the gun but you can't carry it without spend another $200 on a CHL.
*Yes my firearm was purchased legally*
08-30-2005, 06:20 PM
#16
TECH Junkie
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Katy, TX
Posts: 3,037
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Brains
Truthfully, I feel I should have the unquestionable right to carry a firearm of my choosing, no matter what. I shouldn't have to prove intent or prove **** to be legal to carry. The government shouldn't even be made aware of who is and who is not carrying. Lets face it - gun laws protect NOBODY, NOTHING.
Sponsored by your regular ol' ex-yankee guy who doesn't pack heat either, but feels his rights shouldn't be stepped on by some skeered poleece occifers. Next time any of you get pulled over, ask the cop if he feels the gun laws make his life safer when he pulls over a car with questionable occupants.
Sponsored by your regular ol' ex-yankee guy who doesn't pack heat either, but feels his rights shouldn't be stepped on by some skeered poleece occifers. Next time any of you get pulled over, ask the cop if he feels the gun laws make his life safer when he pulls over a car with questionable occupants.
08-30-2005, 06:34 PM
#17
TECH Fanatic
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: TEXAS! Is there anywhere else?
Posts: 1,754
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I have my CHL. All I can say is that at least we live in a state that offers this option. Personally I believe if you can't pass the background check, then you shouldn't carrying a gun. PERIOD! Requiring people to be licensed helps keep some of the wacko's unarmed. Which in my book is a good thing.
-Tracey
-Tracey
08-30-2005, 06:47 PM
#18
TECH Junkie
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Katy, TX
Posts: 3,037
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Tracey
Requiring people to be licensed helps keep some of the wacko's unarmed. Which in my book is a good thing.
-Tracey
-Tracey
08-30-2005, 06:55 PM
#19
TECH Resident
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: NW H-town
Posts: 772
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
There is a saying: "An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when you may have to back your actions with your life" And that is true. There would be a lot less wackos ready to commit violence if they knew that the second they did, the would recieve in turn, violence from those who they accost, and even bystanders. All these thug wannabe kids that run around brandishing their gun at people just to intimidate, do do because they feel confident that the other person is not armed. Im sure if they thought that the person that they are waving the gun at actually had a loaded gun on him, they would not be acting like that.
FYI-there are other states that already have this type of law to carry a gun in your car without a license, and do not have any problems from it.
and I agree with Brains-it should not be a privalege to carry a gun, It should be our god given right, just like it states in the 2nd A.
FYI-there are other states that already have this type of law to carry a gun in your car without a license, and do not have any problems from it.
and I agree with Brains-it should not be a privalege to carry a gun, It should be our god given right, just like it states in the 2nd A.
08-30-2005, 07:11 PM
#20
11 Second Club
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: houston
Posts: 156
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hey it's funny bcs week ago my brother got busted for carrying a gun while driving at night...I have no idea why he would need a gun he is 19yr.They took him to jail and we bonded him out. But today 2 detectives were looking for him, they found him at his friends house and now he is in jail...I think he is going to be doing some time....