Generation III Internal Engine - CAD drawings/dimensions




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KillerBrink182
11-07-2005, 02:46 PM
I am in an AutoCAD class and for my final project I plan on drawing the rotating assembly of a LSx engine. I need help getting my hands on as much information as possible: drawings, dimensions, etc. What would be great is if I could get the components seperate: piston, pin, rod, crank, etc; so I can include as much detail as possible. So if anyone can point me in the right direction or has any information handy, it would be greatly appreciated. If it helps any I use AutoCAD 2005 LT in the lab and 2004 LT on my laptop. I don't necessarily need CAD drawings, just enough dimensions and visual aid so I can draw it using AutoCAD.

Thank you,
Mike


DanO
11-07-2005, 02:52 PM
you should really impress your teacher and do a full Drawing (GD&T, Surface Finishes, Hardness, etc) of each compoent. Not to mention it would be a nice reference for the rest of us if all that data was collected. But.. in reality only GM knows most of the specs so i guess basic dimensions will have to do...

Builder
11-07-2005, 04:13 PM
You can get some of the basic dimensions on the web. But, your best bet is probably to find a thrashed, junker and ask if you can get the engine out...take it out, tear it down, and make your measurements along the way.

BTW, I started selling AutoCAD V1.4 in the early 80's, when it first came out. Started my own dealership and sold the company in '93.


Old SStroker
11-07-2005, 04:37 PM
You have chosed a very large task for a project if you plan to actually dimension the parts anywhere near enought to machhine them. The crankshaft will be the challenge.

If you are also planning to include materials, heat treating , etc. I think you are in over your head. Is it too late to break it down into just the piston, pin and rod? Doing that well would be my idea of a project. You could probably get used parts donated from some of us here.

Good luck.

treyZ28
11-07-2005, 05:21 PM
I started doing that once. Then I realized how damn complicated an engine block was. I never got past the block and I'm pretty good with UG and solid edge/works.

There are just a TON of features in that thing. Id be suprised if any single processor could handle it. I know a pIII couldn't handle a fully Cad'd up cross drilled, slotted and vented rotor.

here is some info on LT1 stuff
http://www3.worldisround.com/photos/0/403/496_t.jpg

Brandon Boomhauer
11-07-2005, 06:00 PM
i wouldnt even attempt that... but you must be further along throughout classes that i ever have been...
wish i would have stuck with it.

circusboy
11-07-2005, 06:43 PM
"builder"
i want your car!!!!!!!!!!!!! lol. i bet that thing is fun as hell to drive. can you post some pictures in a different thread, say "multimedia exchange". i bet a lot of people would love to see it.


"killerbrink182" are you looking for basic info. piston diameter, high, top of piston to the center line of the rings, ring thicknesses, pin diameter, etc...?
or are you wanting to get more technical than that?

Builder
11-07-2005, 06:54 PM
"builder"
i want your car!!!!!!!!!!!!! lol. i bet that thing is fun as hell to drive. can you post some pictures in a different thread, say "multimedia exchange". i bet a lot of people would love to see it.HaHa! I want it too. And, no hi-jacking!!!

Check the link in my sig. Click on the little, red car and go to the bottom. There, you will find "Ultima Construction Links". There's a section called "Builder Pages". You will find tons of on-line video, pictures, and construction photos.

Damage Inc.
11-07-2005, 07:06 PM
That would not be a good idea for an LT 2D software. 3D is a must for things like that. Solidworks, Catia, and Inventor would make it a walk in the park.

Good luck to ya. ;)

KillerBrink182
11-07-2005, 08:52 PM
thanks everyone. yeah, basic info is what i am looking for. this is going to be a drawing(s) of basic dimensions, but as many as i can get, and simple hatchings to indicate machined, cast, rough, etc. surfaces. yes 3D would be great, but it's not an option (considering we lost 5 weeks to Rita).

thanks again,
Mike

*EDIT* treyz28- link doesnt work :(

Mavmavv
11-07-2005, 09:06 PM
Dont even try it in CAD, seriously thats waaaay to much for that program. Give Inventor a try if you want to get into 3d, its a very nice trasition! (I Model for a living)

KillerBrink182
11-07-2005, 09:23 PM
I'm not even going to touch 3D. It's an AutoCAD class so it must be done using the two versions i have. It's just going to be basic orthographic views, and i've seen drawings of similar things so it's possible.

Mike

camaronut502
11-07-2005, 09:36 PM
i majored in cadd(autocad) and one of my projects i did a 1/10th scale nitro touring car engine and that took me right at 2.5 months of working on it for 8 hours twice a week. So something of that size and detail would be amazingly difficult seeing how u wouldnt have much dimensions to work off of.

--Matt

KillerBrink182
11-09-2005, 02:28 PM
well since it seems getting my hands on the dimensions is going to be difficult, perhaps some of you with close-up, HQ pictures of each component (stock pieces prefferably) can post them (or send them directly to me if you prefer) so i can get an idea of the lines, shapes, etc. involved. Anything involving a detailed picture, drawing, or even dimensions by themselves would be a step in the right direction. thank you.

Mike

Roarin_8
11-09-2005, 03:51 PM
http://www.ls1speed.com/catalogimages/payr2046.jpg

Replica Motors / Transmissions
Perfect for mocking up your new project without waiting for your motor to be built or your transmission to be delivered. Motors are a replica that have the factory threaded holes. Not to mention they are very light and easy to work with.

Got this info from Speedinc------>

KillerBrink182
11-09-2005, 04:18 PM
thanks for the help, but i'm looking for the rotating assembly.

Mike

Roarin_8
11-09-2005, 04:25 PM
Ohhh ok, well um maybe the rotating assembly is in the mock up block :lol: Good luck on your project.

If you are looking for measurements, ask the sponsors what the measurements of the parts are, I'm sure they'll know.

circusboy
11-09-2005, 08:24 PM
go to the "new ls1 owners" forum. click on jrp's "super facts and commonly asked questions" sticky. scroll down a little ways on the first post and there is a section called "engine mechanical specifications". there is some good info in there that might help you.

KillerBrink182
11-09-2005, 08:59 PM
thank you. that should get me a pretty good start.

Mike

Lasershop
11-11-2005, 07:10 AM
thank you. that should get me a pretty good start.

Mike

Lasershop does CAD every freakin' day........ day in day out CAD CAD CAD. CAD sucks!! What you want can totally be done in AutoCAD but finding dimensions is all but non existent. Your going to have to find some good photo's and fake the dims and settle for proportional. Does you're version have solid modeler? When I do stuff I always draw out geometry in AutoCAD and then "3D" it in surfCAM. But you can do a good enough job in AutoCAD. Not sure if a simple hatch will go around 3d geometry though. You are going to have to work your ass of on this. Projects like this take some time and I am freakin' FASTER than most. I think a piston/rod assembly would be pretty nice and take allot less time even if you just do it 2D.

Shooter_Jay
11-12-2005, 12:33 AM
autocad lt sucks, but full autocad does 3d just fine, and from my experience can actually work with larger assemblies faster than inventer and solidworks(I've used and have at my disposal all 3) because autocad doesn't bog down your processor with the constraints. It helps though to be very creative with layer naming and filters, otherwise it is hard to work with complex modelling. Of course too, you don't have the ability to automatically actuate mechanisms like you do in the constraint based softwares.
This link to our company website has some of my autocad modelling work, all the modelling/rendering shown on this site was done by me in autocad 2002 or older. The page that the link shows is actually my monitor showing one of my models, well my old monitor, my new one matches black! :-)

http://www.entwistleco.com/sub_contract/engineering_design/engineering_design.htm

Check this thing out even though I didn't work on the project, it was before I started there, maybe 10 years ago...
http://www.entwistleco.com/defense/ground/RTForklift.htm

Shooter_Jay
11-12-2005, 12:44 AM
oops, to stay on topic...Even if you're stuck doing only 2d...if the block is so complicated, just do a way simplified version of the block itself, and concentrate on the rotating assembly. You obviously wont be able to create manufacturing drawings and specifications without a whole lot of reverse engineering (years?) but you can definitely do it all nominal dimensions accurately and it can come out great. Actually I'd love to get copies of the files you make if I could! Don't believe the people that say you can't do what you believe you can do. :cheers:

Moldmaker
11-12-2005, 10:00 AM
LSx engine information is very difficult to find. If you're just hell bent on modeling an engine, then you can find a good deal of information on the 1st generation small block. I have a number of CAD drawings on the 1st gen all courtesy of the general.

Good luck.

KillerBrink182
11-12-2005, 08:27 PM
thanks everyone. for this to be a good even great final project i'm going to need as much deatail as possible. even though i may have to switch to something "easier" i still plan on doing this just for fun. I'll try and keep everyone updated. due date is early december so you all won't have to wait long to hear from me.

Mike

treyZ28
11-12-2005, 08:50 PM
All I have to say is the UG NX is awesome. I-DEAS SUCKS. Its the worst program I've ever used or had to learn. It should be illegal.

Moldmaker
11-12-2005, 11:02 PM
All I have to say is the UG NX is awesome. I-DEAS SUCKS. Its the worst program I've ever used or had to learn. It should be illegal.

Interesting you should mention SDRC's I-deas since it's belonged to UG for close to four years now. In fact, NX & NX2 incorporate many of the high end analysis tools from I-deas. I've been a UG user since way before NX and I think the acquisition has helped UG become a better product.

Moldmaker
11-12-2005, 11:06 PM
Mike,

Guess you ARE hell bent on modeling an LS1 after all. Funny that you're professor probably wouldn't know it from any other v8 engine on the market. If you need help with generation 1 information please feel free to e-mail me.

Best of luck.

Teutonic Speedracer
11-13-2005, 06:18 PM
I tried doing a piston & connecting rod from a 1927 Chevy back in my 2nd year of CAD class back in high school. Even having the parts wasn't easy. Measuring radii and complex parts is harder than drawing them at times. I winged it for the class, but they definitely weren't close to being exact.

Shooter_Jay
11-13-2005, 07:04 PM
very true, the hardest part most often times is to get accurate measurements. I had a similar experience with a distributor cap back in tech school, alot of features on that dist cap.

treyZ28
11-13-2005, 07:12 PM
Interesting you should mention SDRC's I-deas since it's belonged to UG for close to four years now. In fact, NX & NX2 incorporate many of the high end analysis tools from I-deas. I've been a UG user since way before NX and I think the acquisition has helped UG become a better product.
i noticed certain "evolutions." But I got UG first, then I-DEAS. And I only know UGNX, nothing before that.

treyZ28
11-13-2005, 07:14 PM
very true, the hardest part most often times is to get accurate measurements. I had a similar experience with a distributor cap back in tech school, alot of features on that dist cap.


CMM and 3D scanners!

I've seen entire vehicles stripped down to its most basic components (we are talking ever spot weld drilled out). Every peice of the car was 3d scanned and most important components got materials anaysed so that we had full 3d cad data and material specs for everything.

Probobly took less time to that than to have a CAD guy reverse engineer the hood and fasica

Mike454SS
11-14-2005, 01:57 AM
I was gonna say...I LOVE the CMM at school.

Anyways, I have some spare stock stuff if you're interested in measuring yourself. Sometimes the machine shop at school (if you have one) is your best friend for stuff like this. They have all kinds of measuring tools that'll make this a LOT easier...and that is going to be 99.9% of the work to get it done.

matthud
11-16-2005, 11:43 AM
Can anyone tell me if there is a 3d model available somewhere of the LSx. I would prefer something in a Pro/E format, but any 3d modeling format would work.

▀lack▀eard
11-16-2005, 12:07 PM
Call the plant in St. Catherines, Ontario and tell them you are a student, maybe they can help you out with some drawings.

I know I've faciliated similar requests in the past for the 4L60E transmission.

I would suggest calling the HR department, or pull a head hunter move and jsut ask for an engineer, make friends on the ohone (with who ever they transfer you over too) and ask them if they can send you a couple of drawings, even if its only in pdf format.

The way I see it... you have to draw something for this class, you define how much detail you want to go into (with your instructors approval of course) and just do it. Don't let anyone disuade you on this..

Good luck

matthud
11-16-2005, 12:42 PM
I actually just want a model for personal use, not a school project. Which is why I dont want to have to go through the trouble of modeling stuff from drawings.

Shooter_Jay
11-16-2005, 11:06 PM
I thought I saw a model of a corvette ls1 but maybe I was dreaming, don't seem to have it. I know I've seen imported models of cummins engines at work. I'm not sure how detailed they got. I think they were all just like external mockups. Don't recall seeing any rotating ass'y or valvetrain etc.

treyZ28
11-16-2005, 11:52 PM
I remember working at a supplier importing some drawings for my boss.

the file "LS7" file looked awfully tempting 18 months ago... especially since its under his login name

matthud
11-17-2005, 02:52 PM
I thought I saw a model of a corvette ls1 but maybe I was dreaming, don't seem to have it. I know I've seen imported models of cummins engines at work. I'm not sure how detailed they got. I think they were all just like external mockups. Don't recall seeing any rotating ass'y or valvetrain etc.

All I am really looking for is an external mockup of any LS engine.

matthud
11-19-2005, 01:27 PM
OK, does anyone have CAD files for a Big Block?

treyZ28
11-19-2005, 03:25 PM
Do you realize drawings for an engine block will be about a book thick?

QUASAR
11-22-2005, 06:39 AM
All I have to say is the UG NX is awesome. I-DEAS SUCKS. Its the worst program I've ever used or had to learn. It should be illegal.

pffft you should be illigal :jest:

IDEAS rocks for solids, and assemblies. Not so great on the surfacing, and so so on the drafting. I learned UG and IDEAS at the same time, at firts UG seemed easier, but in the long run I grew to like IDEAS more. Been using it for the last 4 years here at work (Ford supplier). Anyone hiring for a IDEAS CAD work? $$$$ :)

If anyone does find a CAD model of an LSx engine, please pm me I'd love to have it to play with.

99FormulaWs6
11-23-2005, 12:42 AM
I'd probably rather work in SolidWorks or Inventor than anything, after the learning curve it's relatively easy.

KillerBrink182
11-23-2005, 08:47 AM
well i switched my project last week sometime, but i still want to do the rotating assembly just for fun. My professor is trying to get SolidWorks for the course (we wouldn't be using it though seeing as how late in the semester it already is) But seeing as hurricane rita is causing the state to pull back on funding a little, and we've had 500+ already withdraw this semester (in the words of the officials, the budget has no fat to trim) it doesnt look like we'll be alowed any luxuries anytime soon.

QUASAR
11-23-2005, 10:17 AM
well i switched my project last week sometime, but i still want to do the rotating assembly just for fun. My professor is trying to get SolidWorks for the course (we wouldn't be using it though seeing as how late in the semester it already is) But seeing as hurricane rita is causing the state to pull back on funding a little, and we've had 500+ already withdraw this semester (in the words of the officials, the budget has no fat to trim) it doesnt look like we'll be alowed any luxuries anytime soon.

So you will be drawing all these components? lol, are you sure you understand what you are getting into? Crank, rods, pistons will need drawings for the parts as cast, then semi finish and finish machining drawings. Thats not including the small stuff like rings, bearings ect. Take the crank out of the equasion and I think the project is doable. Maybe have the finished product be the piston/rod asy containing the piston, rod, rings, wrist pin, and rodbearings. But all that is up to you. Good luck with it anyhow :)

QUASAR
11-23-2005, 10:23 AM
I'd probably rather work in SolidWorks or Inventor than anything, after the learning curve it's relatively easy.

Never actually worked in SW myself, seen some demos though and it looks pretty powerful as a modeler/analysis tool. But there is a reason why a solidworks licence is $4k, and Catia V5, IDEAS is $30k +. Not sure about UG, but its gotta be up there somewhere. I think you can purchase a SW "student" licence for 1-1.5 years for $150 or something like that. I think it was thru Journey Education or something.

crafty888
01-11-2006, 03:39 AM
Has anyone found an LS engine block yet. I bought a SB one from turbosquid for USD15... I am trying to do some comparison stuff for a project and need an LS one.....

crafty888
03-05-2008, 07:26 PM
Had anyone scanned an LS engine yet.... I'm prepared to chip in and pay for scanning - anyone?

sho-me speed
03-05-2008, 09:49 PM
I am not sure if we are still stuck w/o the specifics but I will do the 3d part modeling in Inventor if someone can come up with the specs and info.

Shooter_Jay
03-05-2008, 09:51 PM
Had anyone scanned an LS engine yet.... I'm prepared to chip in and pay for scanning - anyone?

I found online some models that are simplified. Not sure how accurate, but one claims to be an LS1, and another a hayabusa motor.

crafty888
03-05-2008, 09:59 PM
^^ got a link?

Shooter_Jay
03-05-2008, 10:07 PM
working on it..can't promise how close to an ls1 it is, but that's what the download site claimed.

Right click save target as...

http://webboox.com/automotive/sw3dps-chevy_ls1_engine_mockup.zip

Shooter_Jay
03-05-2008, 10:09 PM
also have...

http://webboox.com/automotive/sw3dps-hayabusa_engine.zip

http://webboox.com/automotive/sw3dps-v8_motor.zip

Shooter_Jay
03-05-2008, 10:12 PM
not sure if there's anything good at this site, maybe where I got those, not sure...
http://www.3dcadbrowser.com/preview.aspx?ModelCode=5713#

JustAnIlluzion
03-05-2008, 10:14 PM
sounds like alot of work for autocad. I have done similiar projects in catia and loved it. Used to work for a GM supplier doing UG and liked it as well. Using autocad 2D today is like tuning your car with a jet chip. I never liked 3d either.

Shooter_Jay
03-05-2008, 10:20 PM
btw, I'm on SW07 these days, getting 08 upgrade friday :)

crafty888
03-05-2008, 10:35 PM
I'm in construction, my guys all use ACAD. I have a copy of SW2008 and have had a play with it... Im sold.

fast
03-06-2008, 08:14 AM
That would not be a good idea for an LT 2D software. 3D is a must for things like that. Solidworks, Catia, and Inventor would make it a walk in the park.

Good luck to ya. ;)

I always loved Catia, company I used to work for went solidworks, but all the interns were from UofI(llinois) and only knew Pro-E

good luck with the project !

Gordon0652
03-06-2008, 08:20 AM
Hey man!
I did exactly what you are doing, but i used CadKey v21.5 w/ KeyCreator.
What files can you read because i will send my Cadfile of an LS1 rotating assembly so you can get an idea on dimensions. It was very difficult to do because of all the angles involved and you had to Xform everything!

If you can change your drawing i would look into LS1 heads because you can find the dimensions anywhere.

I did the drawing 2 years ago.
Let me know what file ext. you can except.

Shooter_Jay
03-06-2008, 06:06 PM
Hey man!
I did exactly what you are doing, but i used CadKey v21.5 w/ KeyCreator.
What files can you read because i will send my Cadfile of an LS1 rotating assembly so you can get an idea on dimensions. It was very difficult to do because of all the angles involved and you had to Xform everything!

If you can change your drawing i would look into LS1 heads because you can find the dimensions anywhere.

I did the drawing 2 years ago.
Let me know what file ext. you can except.

I'd gladly take that file in either solidworks format, or .stp I think I can use too. If you could also send the cadkey format I might be able to convert that as well. JayAndrewsCADD@Yahoo.com

crafty888
03-06-2008, 07:08 PM
working on it..can't promise how close to an ls1 it is, but that's what the download site claimed.

Right click save target as...

http://webboox.com/automotive/sw3dps-chevy_ls1_engine_mockup.zip


Thanks for that - unfortunately not good enough. I dont need it to be accurate enough to machine parts, its for placing the engine + trans in the design of my next project.

Looks like we're gonna have to draw it.

DSIPOS05
04-09-2010, 06:53 PM
Just wanted to say thanks for the solidworks links above, those are of great use. I am in the process of doing drawings in inventor and some simpler ones in cad, once again thank you!!

Any links for the LS7 would be awesome too!

Pocket
04-12-2010, 01:29 PM
Finding dimensions needed to draw a complete engine based on what you find on the internet is next to impossible. I attempted to draw a SBC with dimensions from the Chevy power book, along with pretty much everything I could DL related to SBC. Even from the Chevy power book, some dimensions were off by over an inch

The best method Ive found is to remove each part and model it individually. This takes forever, but you know its correct because the part is sitting in your lap. I used a set of dial calipers and a 12" aluminum rule. When I did the FASE engine we rechecked it with the new FARO arm and I was within .100". Plenty close enough for an engine to chassis assembly

All of my work is with AutoCAD
http://s150.photobucket.com/albums/s98/Pocket_004/SBC%20concepts/
http://s150.photobucket.com/albums/s98/Pocket_004/FSAE%20Honda%20CBR%20600RR/
http://s150.photobucket.com/albums/s98/Pocket_004/Blowers/?start=100

DSIPOS05
04-14-2010, 11:51 PM
wow thats really impressive, in fact I havent seen anyone else on the net who has done that. Props to you man. Is that a 350?? Any chance you'd share the cad file?! I know thats prolly askin for too much, I mean I cant even imagine how much time you put into that, but I would just love to play around with it.

Im going to find an LS1 or take it out of mine someday and do the same, thats still pretty incredible you did that with only a ruler and some calipers!!

freefuel
07-23-2010, 09:04 AM
Finding dimensions needed to draw a complete engine based on what you find on the internet is next to impossible. I attempted to draw a SBC with dimensions from the Chevy power book, along with pretty much everything I could DL related to SBC. Even from the Chevy power book, some dimensions were off by over an inch

The best method Ive found is to remove each part and model it individually. This takes forever, but you know its correct because the part is sitting in your lap. I used a set of dial calipers and a 12" aluminum rule. When I did the FASE engine we rechecked it with the new FARO arm and I was within .100". Plenty close enough for an engine to chassis assembly

All of my work is with AutoCAD
http://s150.photobucket.com/albums/s98/Pocket_004/SBC%20concepts/
http://s150.photobucket.com/albums/s98/Pocket_004/FSAE%20Honda%20CBR%20600RR/
http://s150.photobucket.com/albums/s98/Pocket_004/Blowers/?start=100

Pocket would you be willing to share the dimensions for the Chevy small block crankshaft bolt pattern?

I'm designing an adapter to swap a Diesel into a Jeep, and I need this information for my flywheel. Do you have both the 1985, and 1986 patterns?