LS1 Edit- removing EGR AIR
03-16-2003, 10:19 AM
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Re: LS1 Edit- removing EGR AIR Go through the AutoTap manual (the OBDII trouble code section - hopefully you have one <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" /> ), figure out which codes you want to delete, and then go to the Edit... Engine Diagnostic... Hardware Diagnostic... section and delete the appropriate codes.
-Andrew
-Andrew
03-16-2003, 02:15 PM
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Re: LS1 Edit- removing EGR AIR I don't have auto tap, that is why i was looking for the code numbers, cause once it throws them you have to have them deleted before you can use edit
03-17-2003, 11:52 AM
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03-17-2003, 06:08 PM
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Re: LS1 Edit- removing EGR AIR </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by CMNTMXR57:
<strong> Can I ask WHY you wish to eliminate your EGR system?
There are NO performance gains to be had by eliminating it!
Here's some interesting reading;
https://ls1tech.com/ubb/ultimatebb.p...;f=23;t=004209 </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">My guess is he removed his EGR and AIR and wants to turn off those applicable test so he doesn't throw any codes/SES light. Exactly what I will be doing shortly.
<strong> Can I ask WHY you wish to eliminate your EGR system?
There are NO performance gains to be had by eliminating it!
Here's some interesting reading;
https://ls1tech.com/ubb/ultimatebb.p...;f=23;t=004209 </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">My guess is he removed his EGR and AIR and wants to turn off those applicable test so he doesn't throw any codes/SES light. Exactly what I will be doing shortly.
03-17-2003, 10:08 PM
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Re: LS1 Edit- removing EGR AIR Uhh, I FULLY understand that portion of it. My question is WHY do people insist on removing their EGR and A.I.R. system when there is no gain performancewise to be had from doing this other than minimal weight savings.
EGR and A.I.R. are commanded off at WOT. You do run WOT at the track, tight?
If it's off at WOT throttle, where is the gain to be had?
EGR and A.I.R. are commanded off at WOT. You do run WOT at the track, tight?
If it's off at WOT throttle, where is the gain to be had?
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03-18-2003, 12:02 AM
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Re: LS1 Edit- removing EGR AIR Can I ask WHY you wish to eliminate your EGR system?
There are NO performance gains to be had by eliminating it!
Here's some interesting reading;
https://ls1tech.com/ubb/ultimatebb.p...;f=23;t=004209
There are NO performance gains to be had by eliminating it!
Here's some interesting reading;
https://ls1tech.com/ubb/ultimatebb.p...;f=23;t=004209
03-18-2003, 12:05 AM
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Re: LS1 Edit- removing EGR AIR many reasons, and after i give them someone please just give me the codes that will be thrown once i do this!!!!!
1. It looks ugly as hell
2. I have edit so i will be tuning the whole curve and i want a constant curve variant off of wot not one that runs richer due to a EGR system
3. I got a manifold for 200 and it does not have provisions nor do i want to disrupt flow by adding them
4. find the ounces and the pounds find themselves, find the pounds and ET comes down, regardless. That is like saying don't take out that it is only 10 pounds, think of how many things you remove under 10 pounds when stripping the car.....
5. and last but not least...............
BECAUSE I CAN
I know what the egr does, and that is why i am getting rid out it
let me ask you something, what happens when you get carbo deposits on the back of valves??? they don't flow as well do they??? so why wouldn't the carbo being pulled from the manifold to the intake be harmful???
there are many other reasons, but those are the only ones i think you really need to here
P.S. I have NO, I mean NO, emmisions testing what so ever. NONE. So I don't have to worry about it at all.
1. It looks ugly as hell
2. I have edit so i will be tuning the whole curve and i want a constant curve variant off of wot not one that runs richer due to a EGR system
3. I got a manifold for 200 and it does not have provisions nor do i want to disrupt flow by adding them
4. find the ounces and the pounds find themselves, find the pounds and ET comes down, regardless. That is like saying don't take out that it is only 10 pounds, think of how many things you remove under 10 pounds when stripping the car.....
5. and last but not least...............
BECAUSE I CAN
I know what the egr does, and that is why i am getting rid out it
let me ask you something, what happens when you get carbo deposits on the back of valves??? they don't flow as well do they??? so why wouldn't the carbo being pulled from the manifold to the intake be harmful???
there are many other reasons, but those are the only ones i think you really need to here
P.S. I have NO, I mean NO, emmisions testing what so ever. NONE. So I don't have to worry about it at all.
03-18-2003, 06:21 AM
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Re: LS1 Edit- removing EGR AIR 1) Our whole engine bay is ugly, so are you going to remove everything in it to make it look pretty?
2) It only runs richer under normal driving conditions when it's running. This helps your everyday driveability. Once again at WIDE OPEN THROTTLE IT'S SHUT OFF BY THE PCM ANYWAY!!! So it has NO affect and has NO enrichment affect at WOT.
3) Good price on the manifold, but I believe the adaptor kit is only like $50 and some time on your behalf. If you cut the actual tube down/off that extends into the airflow inside the plenum, you have eliminated all disruptions. That is the only point where disruption would occur and by cutting the metal tube down, you eliminate it while still allowing the system to flow.
4) I well know that taking pounds off shave 1/4 mile times. BUT, you have to do a cost/benefit analysis. Is the weight saved by removing the system worth the loss of daily driveability REGARDLESS of what programming you have to eliminate the codes in your PCM. I wasn't even thinking from an Emissions standpoint (which I'll get to later), moreso from a daily driveability aspect.
5) I'm happy for you
You claim you know what the EGR system does, but did you read what I posted above in that link? That is right from GM's Service Information 2000 system. I've experienced much the same symptoms they list when my EGR system was turned off without me knowing.
Carbon deposits on the back of your valves? Now you're stretching it a little. Newsflash...you also have carbon deposits on the valve faces, combustion chamber surfaces, and piston head that "technically" could disrupt the flow, tumble and roll of gasses as they are compressed on the compression stroke. I don't see you worried about this and these carbon deposits are probably 100x that of any carbon deposits that would be on the back of your valves.
No one has come up with valid and factual arguments for removing it while I have provided factual arguments for keeping it. You all come up with silly arguments like carbon deposits in your intake manifold and on the back of valves....LOL!! It's an internal combustion engine!!! THere are supposed to be carbon deposits. That is unless you're like the NHRA teams that pull your motor apart in the pits after every run....LOL!
2) It only runs richer under normal driving conditions when it's running. This helps your everyday driveability. Once again at WIDE OPEN THROTTLE IT'S SHUT OFF BY THE PCM ANYWAY!!! So it has NO affect and has NO enrichment affect at WOT.
3) Good price on the manifold, but I believe the adaptor kit is only like $50 and some time on your behalf. If you cut the actual tube down/off that extends into the airflow inside the plenum, you have eliminated all disruptions. That is the only point where disruption would occur and by cutting the metal tube down, you eliminate it while still allowing the system to flow.
4) I well know that taking pounds off shave 1/4 mile times. BUT, you have to do a cost/benefit analysis. Is the weight saved by removing the system worth the loss of daily driveability REGARDLESS of what programming you have to eliminate the codes in your PCM. I wasn't even thinking from an Emissions standpoint (which I'll get to later), moreso from a daily driveability aspect.
5) I'm happy for you
You claim you know what the EGR system does, but did you read what I posted above in that link? That is right from GM's Service Information 2000 system. I've experienced much the same symptoms they list when my EGR system was turned off without me knowing.
Carbon deposits on the back of your valves? Now you're stretching it a little. Newsflash...you also have carbon deposits on the valve faces, combustion chamber surfaces, and piston head that "technically" could disrupt the flow, tumble and roll of gasses as they are compressed on the compression stroke. I don't see you worried about this and these carbon deposits are probably 100x that of any carbon deposits that would be on the back of your valves.
No one has come up with valid and factual arguments for removing it while I have provided factual arguments for keeping it. You all come up with silly arguments like carbon deposits in your intake manifold and on the back of valves....LOL!! It's an internal combustion engine!!! THere are supposed to be carbon deposits. That is unless you're like the NHRA teams that pull your motor apart in the pits after every run....LOL!
03-18-2003, 08:53 AM
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Re: LS1 Edit- removing EGR AIR These cars run rich as hell, you want to talk about driveability.
removing the EGR with factory tuning will not cause any problems like pinging and detonation. Also all the facts involve cam profile which will be changed in a matter of weeks.
I will have two setups, one for the track and one for the street, so i won't run very advanced timing or any other things on the street to gain a little more. That is why it won't matter.
1. I have seen pretty engines, and in my opinion the nasty hose and treehouse looking egr pum sucks.
2. i have not used it much, but i believe i can enrich the fuel at everything below part throttle using edit anyways. That way i am using clean and oxidized fuel instead of carbon filled pooled fuel. The fuel it uses to enrich heats the intake and also can pool easier. That is why i would prefer to allow an injector add more fuel rather than recycle what never was able to burn in the first place.
3. cutting the end, have you ever noticed what the end does???
<img src="http://www.installuniversity.com/install_university/installu_graphics/sophomore_year/egr_free_mod/pipe_measurement.jpg" alt=" - " />
Now you said that GM had a reason behind this thing, don't you think it is shaped and pointed in a direction for a reason? It is designed to mix with the flow of air, by using the swirl that occurs after the air travels around the valve. Without this mix it could pool at idle, causing a large amount of buildup at the front of the manifold. I am willing to bet a LS6 manifold with EGR will not flow as much as without, there is no build up in a manifold without this thing. So a manifold with carbon or other **** will flow the same no, i don't think so and all the logic i have ever obtained says no as well. Any obstructions will cause bad flow.
Lets get into a few other things. A ls6 manifold is flat on the bottom while a ls1 has a rib, to me the rib would allow the carbon deposited by the egr and other things like fuel to flow down into the cylinders more effectively. Thus when the LS6 came out it did not have an EGR, it is not necessary. I am not even going to get into the fact that the EGR will affect flow even when cut, because that would require an advanced knowledge of flow dynamics which i am not to great at.
4. DAily Driveability!!!!! Who buys one of these cars and modifies it because they like the driveability of it, for the price you can buy a used mercedes, but obviously most of us like the other side, the harsh, powerful, and yet slightly refined feeling these cars give. I really don't care, as long as the car runs, and runs fast, i am happy. I like the rough idle and feeling the car gives. Oh but maybe i care since I have no mufflers, no cats, and LTs. I like being deaf and not being able to use my cell phone, makes me proud <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />
5. Thank you
Your car was running stock tuning which does not compensate for the loss of EGR, also you didn;t know it was shut off?? Its your car pay attention, or do it yourself.
Yes the carbon on the front is probably worse, but the front of the valves does not flow air, the air flow over the back and swirls over the front, yes the carbon will create resistence and make it flow less, but not as much as on the back. Not only will it flow less, the lift you have on the valve is reduced due to a tighter area between the head and valve due to the build up.
Maybe no one has presented you with an arguement cause you think you are right and no one else can tell you otherwise, maybe the fact that no exotic, no high HP per liter car nor anything else but chevy has a EGR on a sports car. It is not necessary and is power robbing over the long term.
One more, the egr tube will heat up right?? so even when it is off it would radiate heat into the intake, nothing like a good hot intake charge for the best reliability.
removing the EGR with factory tuning will not cause any problems like pinging and detonation. Also all the facts involve cam profile which will be changed in a matter of weeks.
I will have two setups, one for the track and one for the street, so i won't run very advanced timing or any other things on the street to gain a little more. That is why it won't matter.
1. I have seen pretty engines, and in my opinion the nasty hose and treehouse looking egr pum sucks.
2. i have not used it much, but i believe i can enrich the fuel at everything below part throttle using edit anyways. That way i am using clean and oxidized fuel instead of carbon filled pooled fuel. The fuel it uses to enrich heats the intake and also can pool easier. That is why i would prefer to allow an injector add more fuel rather than recycle what never was able to burn in the first place.
3. cutting the end, have you ever noticed what the end does???
<img src="http://www.installuniversity.com/install_university/installu_graphics/sophomore_year/egr_free_mod/pipe_measurement.jpg" alt=" - " />
Now you said that GM had a reason behind this thing, don't you think it is shaped and pointed in a direction for a reason? It is designed to mix with the flow of air, by using the swirl that occurs after the air travels around the valve. Without this mix it could pool at idle, causing a large amount of buildup at the front of the manifold. I am willing to bet a LS6 manifold with EGR will not flow as much as without, there is no build up in a manifold without this thing. So a manifold with carbon or other **** will flow the same no, i don't think so and all the logic i have ever obtained says no as well. Any obstructions will cause bad flow.
Lets get into a few other things. A ls6 manifold is flat on the bottom while a ls1 has a rib, to me the rib would allow the carbon deposited by the egr and other things like fuel to flow down into the cylinders more effectively. Thus when the LS6 came out it did not have an EGR, it is not necessary. I am not even going to get into the fact that the EGR will affect flow even when cut, because that would require an advanced knowledge of flow dynamics which i am not to great at.
4. DAily Driveability!!!!! Who buys one of these cars and modifies it because they like the driveability of it, for the price you can buy a used mercedes, but obviously most of us like the other side, the harsh, powerful, and yet slightly refined feeling these cars give. I really don't care, as long as the car runs, and runs fast, i am happy. I like the rough idle and feeling the car gives. Oh but maybe i care since I have no mufflers, no cats, and LTs. I like being deaf and not being able to use my cell phone, makes me proud <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />
5. Thank you
Your car was running stock tuning which does not compensate for the loss of EGR, also you didn;t know it was shut off?? Its your car pay attention, or do it yourself.
Yes the carbon on the front is probably worse, but the front of the valves does not flow air, the air flow over the back and swirls over the front, yes the carbon will create resistence and make it flow less, but not as much as on the back. Not only will it flow less, the lift you have on the valve is reduced due to a tighter area between the head and valve due to the build up.
Maybe no one has presented you with an arguement cause you think you are right and no one else can tell you otherwise, maybe the fact that no exotic, no high HP per liter car nor anything else but chevy has a EGR on a sports car. It is not necessary and is power robbing over the long term.
One more, the egr tube will heat up right?? so even when it is off it would radiate heat into the intake, nothing like a good hot intake charge for the best reliability.
03-18-2003, 03:50 PM
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Re: LS1 Edit- removing EGR AIR </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Boo Yeah:
<strong>someone please just give me the codes that will be thrown once i do this!!!!!
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I just did! Look under the part entitled "DTCs for EGR codes" and follow the instructions.
http://www.ls1.com/forums/showthread...hreadid=256628
DTCs for EGR
P0400
P0401
P0402
P0404
P0405
P1406
P1409
DTCs for AIR
P0410
P0412
P0418
P1415
P1416
Set them all to Type X <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
<strong>someone please just give me the codes that will be thrown once i do this!!!!!
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I just did! Look under the part entitled "DTCs for EGR codes" and follow the instructions.
http://www.ls1.com/forums/showthread...hreadid=256628
DTCs for EGR
P0400
P0401
P0402
P0404
P0405
P1406
P1409
DTCs for AIR
P0410
P0412
P0418
P1415
P1416
Set them all to Type X <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
03-18-2003, 08:30 PM
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Re: LS1 Edit- removing EGR AIR </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by CMNTMXR57:
<strong>
No one has come up with valid and factual arguments for removing it while I have provided factual arguments for keeping it.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">The EGR obstructs air flow. If people are going to make the effort to run a K&N, install a lid, port the MAF, and port the throttle body, then you better make the effort to get rid of that 1/2" post that sits in the middle of your intake.
Just my .02
<strong>
No one has come up with valid and factual arguments for removing it while I have provided factual arguments for keeping it.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">The EGR obstructs air flow. If people are going to make the effort to run a K&N, install a lid, port the MAF, and port the throttle body, then you better make the effort to get rid of that 1/2" post that sits in the middle of your intake.
Just my .02
03-18-2003, 09:04 PM
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Re: LS1 Edit- removing EGR AIR Thanks for the codes, I will be using them shortly. I have had my EGR and AIR off for months now, with all the mods including a cam, there are no drivability issues. It is my daily driver with stock tuning. I beg to differ on the "ugly engine bay" comment also.
03-20-2003, 03:46 PM
#17
Re: LS1 Edit- removing EGR AIR Well, here is a little help with codes in the future:
http://www.obdii.com/
http://www.autotap.com/
I had a couple of other sites that listed all the codes, but can't find them right now.
http://www.obdii.com/
http://www.autotap.com/
I had a couple of other sites that listed all the codes, but can't find them right now.
