How to hook up stock air pump for evac system?
02-07-2003, 03:59 PM
#3
Re: How to hook up stock air pump for evac system? It does pull a good bit oc vacuum. Mightymouse on this board has this set up and it works well for him. As soon as I can get a replacement AIR pump I will try to get the wiring right for this mod. There is a new electric vacuum pump from Mr. Gasket that I saw in Car Craft; but I cannot find a price or ordering info.
02-07-2003, 04:23 PM
#4
Re: How to hook up stock air pump for evac system? heres a link to probably useless pictures of the install hehe
throttle position switch to turn on pump
http://community.webshots.com/photo/...47601862KfccFH
fresh air inlet to crankcase
http://community.webshots.com/photo/...47601878txbjvZ
valvecover tube exit to air pump (recently moved to an ls6 intake valley port)
http://community.webshots.com/photo/...47601888KJjtQq
tubing and wires running to airpump
http://community.webshots.com/photo/...47601915qyZEsC
pump from underneath and relay
http://community.webshots.com/photo/...47601933MbYxqF
custom pump harness <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />
http://community.webshots.com/photo/...47601971JKeARA
connect both + wires on the pump to relay +12 out and ground to chassis.
http://community.webshots.com/photo/...47602001ZvyKxL
i used all original airpump tubing and the throttle position switch can easily be swapped out for an rpm window switch or even a hobbs boost sensitive switch.
this removes 100% of pcv injested oil from the intake and discharge and provides 100% more crankcase vaccum than stock at wot.
throttle position switch to turn on pump
http://community.webshots.com/photo/...47601862KfccFH
fresh air inlet to crankcase
http://community.webshots.com/photo/...47601878txbjvZ
valvecover tube exit to air pump (recently moved to an ls6 intake valley port)
http://community.webshots.com/photo/...47601888KJjtQq
tubing and wires running to airpump
http://community.webshots.com/photo/...47601915qyZEsC
pump from underneath and relay
http://community.webshots.com/photo/...47601933MbYxqF
custom pump harness <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />
http://community.webshots.com/photo/...47601971JKeARA
connect both + wires on the pump to relay +12 out and ground to chassis.
http://community.webshots.com/photo/...47602001ZvyKxL
i used all original airpump tubing and the throttle position switch can easily be swapped out for an rpm window switch or even a hobbs boost sensitive switch.
this removes 100% of pcv injested oil from the intake and discharge and provides 100% more crankcase vaccum than stock at wot.
02-07-2003, 05:43 PM
#5
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Re: How to hook up stock air pump for evac system? </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by MIGHTYMOUSE:
<strong> this removes 100% of pcv injested oil from the intake and discharge and provides 100% more crankcase vaccum than stock at wot. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Of course it prevents oil from being ingested, but how does a little pump like that double the crankcase vacuum over the motor itself? Did you test this out with a vacuum gauge with the stock pcv setup and yours? If so what were your readings?
<strong> this removes 100% of pcv injested oil from the intake and discharge and provides 100% more crankcase vaccum than stock at wot. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Of course it prevents oil from being ingested, but how does a little pump like that double the crankcase vacuum over the motor itself? Did you test this out with a vacuum gauge with the stock pcv setup and yours? If so what were your readings?
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02-09-2003, 12:44 AM
#8
Re: How to hook up stock air pump for evac system? I sold an AIR pump to a guy who was going to use it for a c/c evac system. I put a vacuum gauge on the inlet of the pump and ran it on a bench with a 12V power supply. Pulled 0 vacuum. He e mailed me later that it burned up after a few hours of use. I don't think they are designed for continuous operation.
02-10-2003, 03:20 PM
#10
Re: How to hook up stock air pump for evac system? ok i knew that statement would catch some people.
ok stock pcv system pulls engine vaccum at all times right?
what is an engines vaccum at wot. 0 therefore what is the pcvs vaccum at wot.. 0
this pump will pull air at idle and at wot, and anything greater than 0 is 100% more. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
and where is the place you are most concerned about blow-by.. at idle or at wot? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
todd if you do frequent oil changes, just having filters is fine, but if you use a synthetic or the like and extend oil changes then the oil will eventually contaminate with exhaust and engine wear will increase.
sounds like the other guys airpump was junked from the get-go it definitely pulls vaccum, think aobut it, it cant blow if it cant suck just as good.
i agree the pump is under more load as a crank vent, but thats why you dont let it run under no engine load, because thats where the high vaccum is that stresses the pump.
ok stock pcv system pulls engine vaccum at all times right?
what is an engines vaccum at wot. 0 therefore what is the pcvs vaccum at wot.. 0
this pump will pull air at idle and at wot, and anything greater than 0 is 100% more. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
and where is the place you are most concerned about blow-by.. at idle or at wot? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
todd if you do frequent oil changes, just having filters is fine, but if you use a synthetic or the like and extend oil changes then the oil will eventually contaminate with exhaust and engine wear will increase.
sounds like the other guys airpump was junked from the get-go it definitely pulls vaccum, think aobut it, it cant blow if it cant suck just as good.
i agree the pump is under more load as a crank vent, but thats why you dont let it run under no engine load, because thats where the high vaccum is that stresses the pump.
02-10-2003, 10:20 PM
#11
Re: How to hook up stock air pump for evac system? </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by GrannySShifting:
<strong> If anyone needs airpumps, I got a shelf full of them <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Hmmmm. I might be interested in one after I get my coils relocated and whatnot <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" /> . I'll send you a PM. <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_cheers.gif" />
<strong> If anyone needs airpumps, I got a shelf full of them <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Hmmmm. I might be interested in one after I get my coils relocated and whatnot <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" /> . I'll send you a PM. <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_cheers.gif" />
02-11-2003, 10:11 AM
#13
Re: How to hook up stock air pump for evac system? the wiring depends on what you are using to activate it..
if you are using anything other then a stadard switch, youll need a standard radio shack style 30amp relay. and switch it on with the ground or the power depending on what device you use.
if you are using anything other then a stadard switch, youll need a standard radio shack style 30amp relay. and switch it on with the ground or the power depending on what device you use.
02-11-2003, 11:10 AM
#14
Re: How to hook up stock air pump for evac system? Well, since I already will have a WOT and Window switch for my nitrous, how do you think I should address it? The WOT switch won't really help, and the window switch either.
What other options are there besides full-time operation or adding another microswitch?
Todd
What other options are there besides full-time operation or adding another microswitch?
Todd
02-11-2003, 03:22 PM
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Re: How to hook up stock air pump for evac system? </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by MIGHTYMOUSE:
<strong> ok i knew that statement would catch some people.
ok stock pcv system pulls engine vaccum at all times right?
what is an engines vaccum at wot. 0 therefore what is the pcvs vaccum at wot.. 0
this pump will pull air at idle and at wot, and anything greater than 0 is 100% more. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
and where is the place you are most concerned about blow-by.. at idle or at wot? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
todd if you do frequent oil changes, just having filters is fine, but if you use a synthetic or the like and extend oil changes then the oil will eventually contaminate with exhaust and engine wear will increase.
sounds like the other guys airpump was junked from the get-go it definitely pulls vaccum, think aobut it, it cant blow if it cant suck just as good.
i agree the pump is under more load as a crank vent, but thats why you dont let it run under no engine load, because thats where the high vaccum is that stresses the pump. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Anything greater than zero is an infinite times more. 100% more is doubling a figure FYI. You are just speculating idly and not doing so accurately. The flowrate of the stock airpump is less than what is coming out of the crankcase, therefore it cannot pull a vacuum. Put a gauge on your setup and prove us wrong.
<strong> ok i knew that statement would catch some people.
ok stock pcv system pulls engine vaccum at all times right?
what is an engines vaccum at wot. 0 therefore what is the pcvs vaccum at wot.. 0
this pump will pull air at idle and at wot, and anything greater than 0 is 100% more. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
and where is the place you are most concerned about blow-by.. at idle or at wot? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
todd if you do frequent oil changes, just having filters is fine, but if you use a synthetic or the like and extend oil changes then the oil will eventually contaminate with exhaust and engine wear will increase.
sounds like the other guys airpump was junked from the get-go it definitely pulls vaccum, think aobut it, it cant blow if it cant suck just as good.
i agree the pump is under more load as a crank vent, but thats why you dont let it run under no engine load, because thats where the high vaccum is that stresses the pump. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Anything greater than zero is an infinite times more. 100% more is doubling a figure FYI. You are just speculating idly and not doing so accurately. The flowrate of the stock airpump is less than what is coming out of the crankcase, therefore it cannot pull a vacuum. Put a gauge on your setup and prove us wrong.
02-11-2003, 03:28 PM
#16
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Re: How to hook up stock air pump for evac system? I gave my stock one to Intmd8 from www.ls1speed.com and he said it burned up and would not pull enough vaccuum.
I have JMX's old 4-6-8 setup for $100 shipped if you want it, this is what Madman and everyone uses. Price is firm.
I have JMX's old 4-6-8 setup for $100 shipped if you want it, this is what Madman and everyone uses. Price is firm.
02-11-2003, 04:24 PM
#17
Re: How to hook up stock air pump for evac system? </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by MIGHTYMOUSE:
<strong>what is an engines vaccum at wot. 0 therefore what is the pcvs vaccum at wot.. 0 </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">In a perfect world yes. In the real world, you are going to see around 1-3" of vacuum at WOT depending on the whole intake system and it's restrictions.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by MIGHTYMOUSE:
<strong>sounds like the other guys airpump was junked from the get-go it definitely pulls vaccum, think aobut it, it cant blow if it cant suck just as good. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">The pump I sold was not junk, It came off of a 01 T/A that was 6 months old and had 10K miles on it. I guess PSJ's pump was junk too. Have you put a vacuum gauge on the inlet side of one of these pumps? I have. You need to study a little on the differences between an air pump (compressor) and a vacuum pump.
IMO, the only problem with the PCV systems on these cars is the baffles in the valve covers that will not separate vapor from liquid. Auto makers have been using this type of PCV system for years without oil consumption problems. Look what GM did on the LS6 to help the problem. They changed the place and way that the CC vapors are picked up.
<strong>what is an engines vaccum at wot. 0 therefore what is the pcvs vaccum at wot.. 0 </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">In a perfect world yes. In the real world, you are going to see around 1-3" of vacuum at WOT depending on the whole intake system and it's restrictions.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by MIGHTYMOUSE:
<strong>sounds like the other guys airpump was junked from the get-go it definitely pulls vaccum, think aobut it, it cant blow if it cant suck just as good. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">The pump I sold was not junk, It came off of a 01 T/A that was 6 months old and had 10K miles on it. I guess PSJ's pump was junk too. Have you put a vacuum gauge on the inlet side of one of these pumps? I have. You need to study a little on the differences between an air pump (compressor) and a vacuum pump.
IMO, the only problem with the PCV systems on these cars is the baffles in the valve covers that will not separate vapor from liquid. Auto makers have been using this type of PCV system for years without oil consumption problems. Look what GM did on the LS6 to help the problem. They changed the place and way that the CC vapors are picked up.
02-11-2003, 04:55 PM
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Re: How to hook up stock air pump for evac system? </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Pro Stock John:
<strong> I gave my stock one to Intmd8 from www.ls1speed.com and he said it burned up and would not pull enough vaccuum.
I have JMX's old 4-6-8 setup for $100 shipped if you want it, this is what Madman and everyone uses. Price is firm. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Thanks for the info John. The AIR pump is not sufficient to pull a vacuum on a LS1 at WOT, been tested several times.
There is at least one vacuum pump better than jmX's old setup out there that do pull a vacuum and show a respectable gain on the dyno. <img border="0" alt="[evil]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_devil.gif" />
<strong> I gave my stock one to Intmd8 from www.ls1speed.com and he said it burned up and would not pull enough vaccuum.
I have JMX's old 4-6-8 setup for $100 shipped if you want it, this is what Madman and everyone uses. Price is firm. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Thanks for the info John. The AIR pump is not sufficient to pull a vacuum on a LS1 at WOT, been tested several times.
There is at least one vacuum pump better than jmX's old setup out there that do pull a vacuum and show a respectable gain on the dyno. <img border="0" alt="[evil]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_devil.gif" />
02-11-2003, 05:43 PM
#19
Re: How to hook up stock air pump for evac system? fenris, i know that the air pump is not going to make hp, thats not what i put it on for.
trahn: ok then, infinite times more, have it your way, the airpump running at wot pulls infinite times more vaccum than stock pcv... speculating idly?? i've put every pcv combination on the car that i can think of.. youre the one just sitting there and not helping the post.. like propose a solution instead of just shooting down other people.
2xls1, as above, i have tried the ls6 valley and catch cans and none of it helped my problem, im more of a try it and see if it works guy than a research it kind of guy. im sorry, your pump was good im sure but im not the only one not having problems running this setup so its no magic.
if you guys would read the post title, its about evacuating the crankcase.. not pulling a vaccum on the crankcase.. sheesh.. all i said is it pulls more vaccum than the stock pcv does at wot when you need it. i never claimed it pulled 20" at all times..
i have a turbo to make hp.. i dont need 5-10 from another mechanically driven pump. im using the airpump to move exhaust gas out of my crankcase before it gets mixed with the oil to polong engine and oil life.. thats what you are looking for, right todd?
as far as switching it, you can run this in parallel off the same window or tp switch with some splice connectors..
trahn: ok then, infinite times more, have it your way, the airpump running at wot pulls infinite times more vaccum than stock pcv... speculating idly?? i've put every pcv combination on the car that i can think of.. youre the one just sitting there and not helping the post.. like propose a solution instead of just shooting down other people.
2xls1, as above, i have tried the ls6 valley and catch cans and none of it helped my problem, im more of a try it and see if it works guy than a research it kind of guy. im sorry, your pump was good im sure but im not the only one not having problems running this setup so its no magic.
if you guys would read the post title, its about evacuating the crankcase.. not pulling a vaccum on the crankcase.. sheesh.. all i said is it pulls more vaccum than the stock pcv does at wot when you need it. i never claimed it pulled 20" at all times..
i have a turbo to make hp.. i dont need 5-10 from another mechanically driven pump. im using the airpump to move exhaust gas out of my crankcase before it gets mixed with the oil to polong engine and oil life.. thats what you are looking for, right todd?
as far as switching it, you can run this in parallel off the same window or tp switch with some splice connectors..
02-11-2003, 05:55 PM
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Re: How to hook up stock air pump for evac system? </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by MIGHTYMOUSE:
<strong> trahn: ok then, infinite times more, have it your way, the airpump running at wot pulls infinite times more vaccum than stock pcv... speculating idly?? i've put every pcv combination on the car that i can think of.. youre the one just sitting there and not helping the post.. like propose a solution instead of just shooting down other people.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">For the last time, have you checked this with a vacuum gauge or are you speculating? I am trying to help out the post by getting some hard numbers for your setup.
The entire point of hooking up a pump to the crankcase is to evacuate the pressure and pull a vacuum. In order to do this the massflow rate through the pump has to be greater than what is coming out of the crankcase at WOT. If it flows less (which it does) it is nothing more than a restriction and hindering the evacuation of the crankcase. In other words it would build pressure in the crankcase compared to a system that just had a breather to vent it.
Since you are a turbo guy I will put it this way: What happens when you put a T3 on a stock LS1? That's right, it will lose horsepower because the maximum flow out of the turbo is less than what the engine was pulling NA.
Use a better vacuum pump or vent it to the atmosphere and leave the pcv capped off.
<strong> trahn: ok then, infinite times more, have it your way, the airpump running at wot pulls infinite times more vaccum than stock pcv... speculating idly?? i've put every pcv combination on the car that i can think of.. youre the one just sitting there and not helping the post.. like propose a solution instead of just shooting down other people.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">For the last time, have you checked this with a vacuum gauge or are you speculating? I am trying to help out the post by getting some hard numbers for your setup.
The entire point of hooking up a pump to the crankcase is to evacuate the pressure and pull a vacuum. In order to do this the massflow rate through the pump has to be greater than what is coming out of the crankcase at WOT. If it flows less (which it does) it is nothing more than a restriction and hindering the evacuation of the crankcase. In other words it would build pressure in the crankcase compared to a system that just had a breather to vent it.
Since you are a turbo guy I will put it this way: What happens when you put a T3 on a stock LS1? That's right, it will lose horsepower because the maximum flow out of the turbo is less than what the engine was pulling NA.
Use a better vacuum pump or vent it to the atmosphere and leave the pcv capped off.