Its time to spend some cash. Suggestions needed
#1
Staging Lane
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Its time to spend some cash. Suggestions needed
I have finally made the decision to throw some money in the Z. After lurking this forum
for several years I have decided to go with a Heads - Cam N/A setup with all the
supporting bolt-ons I can afford.
As my sig states my car is stock so this will be a ground up build. I have some ideas
and a local shop is putting together a package for me now. I wanted to throw out some
of the ideas I had floating around in my head and see if i am on the right track. The last
thing I need is to spend a ton on parts that won’t return the desired numbers.
I am hoping after all the below mods to be in the 420 to 450 rwhp range. The car is
not a daily driver but still needs to pass VA emissions – Inspection. So here it goes…
(sorry for the 100 questions. Any advice would be greatly appreciated)
Heads & Cam
Not sure what to go with here. I left that up to the shop to put together a package. I
have been shopping around some of the sponsors sites but I am ignorant when it
comes to flow numbers, cam profiles, etc…. so here is what i am looking for.
1. A combo that will not require me to fly cut the pistons.
2. A med/aggressive cam (if there is such a thing lol). Would like it to bump but have a
streetable powerband. I know streetable is defined by people differently. I would like
the power lower in the band if that makes any sense.
Studs – Bolts
No clue. Suggestion?
Gaskets
No clue as well lol. Suggestions?
Springs, Rockers and pushrods
Suggestions?
Timing chain
Is a double roller preferred?
Oil Pump
Ported LS6 oil pump
Intake
LS6 or FAST 90/90 – If the performance gains make up for the price diff I will go
with the FAST. Thoughts on this?
Throttle Body
Ported or other? I know there is a FAST 90/90 – Nick Williams’s package. What
would you suggest?
Larger Maf
SLP 85mm. Thoughts on this and what is the advantage of de-screening it?
Lid
SLP Cold air pac. Do I need the full cold air pac? Are there noticeable gains with this
compared to the lid alone? Is the Texas Speed lid better?
Filter
K&N
Smooth Bellows
SLP
Plugs
NGK TR55 Spark Plugs. Do I need the Iridium?
Wires
Taylor Spiro-Pro 8mm Spark Plug Wires
Headers & Y-Pipe
Pacesetter Headers Long Tube & TSP Cat Y Pipe Combo. How is the fit and finish
on these? Does anyone know if the package sold by Texas Speed is coated? The web
site does not say.
Header install kits
Do you normally have to purchase these separately or should they come with the
above package?
Thermostat
Do I need to change?
Cat Back System
Either Magnaflow or SLP Loudmouth II. Any thoughts or problems with these? I am
trying to keep my costs under $1200 for full exhaust system (with headers & Y-Pipe).
Clutch
LS6 Package. Will this hold the desired power? Again price was a determining factor
on this selection.
Shifter
PRO-5.0 Short throw. How is this compared to the Hurst package? Is one better?
What’s missing and am I on the right track?
I am pretty comfortable with the Bolton items I have listed but the heads and cam
package is where i'm worried.
If I posted this in the wrong section please move it to the proper forum.
Thanks again for any support.
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First question is that you said (All of the supporting bolt-ons and mods you could afford). What does you budget look like and how much do you want to spend? Is there a $ amount that you don't want to exceed? How radical of a setup can you handle everyday if this is going to be a DD?
#3
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iTrader: (14)
Originally Posted by rickJames
Heads & Cam
Not sure what to go with here. I left that up to the shop to put together a package. I
have been shopping around some of the sponsors sites but I am ignorant when it
comes to flow numbers, cam profiles, etc…. so here is what i am looking for.
1. A combo that will not require me to fly cut the pistons.
2. A med/aggressive cam (if there is such a thing lol). Would like it to bump but have a
streetable powerband. I know streetable is defined by people differently. I would like
the power lower in the band if that makes any sense.
Look into the Dart 225's from summitracing. They have 62cc chambers will is good for a 346 setup. I'd also look into a TR224 on a 114 LSA from thunder racing to help with tuning for passing emissions.
Studs – Bolts
No clue. Suggestion?
ARP Main Studs, it'll save you a lot of time and headache down the road if you plan to pull the heads again, on top of the fact it's added safety.
Gaskets
No clue as well lol. Suggestions?
You can prob just use the GM MLS gaskets since you won't be pumping out huge hp.
Springs, Rockers and pushrods
Suggestions?
Keep the stock rockers if nothing is wrong with them. If it's a high mileage motor, just replace them with new stockers, no need to upgrade to a bunch of headaches. For the TR224 cam you'll want Comp 918 springs and some hardened 7.400" pushrods.
Timing chain
Is a double roller preferred?
Double roller is my preference as it's added safety and ridiculously beefy. You can also go with an LS2 chain from GM which is also quite beefy but is a single roller, but should be plenty fine for your setup (and cheaper).
Oil Pump
Ported LS6 oil pump
Ported LS6 would work nicely and be plenty for you.
Intake
LS6 or FAST 90/90 – If the performance gains make up for the price diff I will go
with the FAST. Thoughts on this?
I'd just go LS6 intake at this point. The 90/90 will net you prob 10-15 more hp on your application, so it's up to you to justify the $800+ difference between that setup and an LS6/ported TB setup.
Throttle Body
Ported or other? I know there is a FAST 90/90 – Nick Williams’s package. What
would you suggest?
Ported TB for an LS6 setup, or go FAST/Nick Williams TB setup.
Larger Maf
SLP 85mm. Thoughts on this and what is the advantage of de-screening it?
No need to upgrade the MAF at all, stay with the stock one, and descreen it at most if you feel a ridiculous itch to modify it for whatever reason.
Lid
SLP Cold air pac. Do I need the full cold air pac? Are there noticeable gains with this
compared to the lid alone? Is the Texas Speed lid better?
Lid will net you the most gains in this area. I have the SLP cold pac and it certainly helps on top of having the lid with a few extra hp.
Filter
K&N
Go with the K&N. It flows real well and make sure not to oil it too much that it bleeds onto your MAF and kills it. They last a real long time.
Smooth Bellows
SLP
Smooth bellows doesn't really gain anything, I'd be surprised if 1hp was gained. But it's up to you. A lot of people have it.
Plugs
NGK TR55 Spark Plugs. Do I need the Iridium?
TR55's should be perfect for you. Don't go with iridium, they're just a waste.
Wires
Taylor Spiro-Pro 8mm Spark Plug Wires
If you feel the itch for these, any set of aftermarket ones like MSD, NGK, Taylor should be fine.
Headers & Y-Pipe
Pacesetter Headers Long Tube & TSP Cat Y Pipe Combo. How is the fit and finish
on these? Does anyone know if the package sold by Texas Speed is coated? The web
site does not say.
Pacesetters and TSP catted Y are certainly a great bang for the buck. Do a search on these.
Header install kits
Do you normally have to purchase these separately or should they come with the
above package?
I'd personally just buy the install package from TSP if you're buying from them and be done with it unless there is crap in it you don't need.
Thermostat
Do I need to change?
No NEED to change it, but if you do go to a 180 or 160 you'll need to set your fans to come on earlier for the thermostat to do any good at keeping things cooler.
Cat Back System
Either Magnaflow or SLP Loudmouth II. Any thoughts or problems with these? I am
trying to keep my costs under $1200 for full exhaust system (with headers & Y-Pipe).
I loved my LM setup with cats and shorties. When I moved to long tubes without cats, it sounds like absolute crap. The SLP LMII should be a bit quieter though and will probably sound great since you will still have cats. A lot of people like Magnaflow's sound better as it's a bit quieter and tends to have a bit less rasp. It's up to you though. Go to www.ls1sounds.com and listen to all the sound clips so you can make a decision.
Clutch
LS6 Package. Will this hold the desired power? Again price was a determining factor
on this selection.
If you're gonna hit mid 400's I'd go beefier than an LS6. I personally have a single disk McLeod clutch and it holds real well at the low to mid 400 rwhp. I think the LS6 may be a bit too weak if you're looking to hit those kind of numbers. Just remember, the stronger the clutch, the harder it'll be to drive in stop and go traffic. I think mine is a perfect balance thus far, but it's up to you. Again, ask around on the forum.
Shifter
PRO-5.0 Short throw. How is this compared to the Hurst package? Is one better?
I moved from the stock Hurst to the Pro 5.0 with a Lou's short stick and it feels like the perfect combo to me. It's just notchy enough to let you know when you're in gear (which some people dislike) but it feels great to me.
What’s missing and am I on the right track?
[/font][/size]
Not sure what to go with here. I left that up to the shop to put together a package. I
have been shopping around some of the sponsors sites but I am ignorant when it
comes to flow numbers, cam profiles, etc…. so here is what i am looking for.
1. A combo that will not require me to fly cut the pistons.
2. A med/aggressive cam (if there is such a thing lol). Would like it to bump but have a
streetable powerband. I know streetable is defined by people differently. I would like
the power lower in the band if that makes any sense.
Look into the Dart 225's from summitracing. They have 62cc chambers will is good for a 346 setup. I'd also look into a TR224 on a 114 LSA from thunder racing to help with tuning for passing emissions.
Studs – Bolts
No clue. Suggestion?
ARP Main Studs, it'll save you a lot of time and headache down the road if you plan to pull the heads again, on top of the fact it's added safety.
Gaskets
No clue as well lol. Suggestions?
You can prob just use the GM MLS gaskets since you won't be pumping out huge hp.
Springs, Rockers and pushrods
Suggestions?
Keep the stock rockers if nothing is wrong with them. If it's a high mileage motor, just replace them with new stockers, no need to upgrade to a bunch of headaches. For the TR224 cam you'll want Comp 918 springs and some hardened 7.400" pushrods.
Timing chain
Is a double roller preferred?
Double roller is my preference as it's added safety and ridiculously beefy. You can also go with an LS2 chain from GM which is also quite beefy but is a single roller, but should be plenty fine for your setup (and cheaper).
Oil Pump
Ported LS6 oil pump
Ported LS6 would work nicely and be plenty for you.
Intake
LS6 or FAST 90/90 – If the performance gains make up for the price diff I will go
with the FAST. Thoughts on this?
I'd just go LS6 intake at this point. The 90/90 will net you prob 10-15 more hp on your application, so it's up to you to justify the $800+ difference between that setup and an LS6/ported TB setup.
Throttle Body
Ported or other? I know there is a FAST 90/90 – Nick Williams’s package. What
would you suggest?
Ported TB for an LS6 setup, or go FAST/Nick Williams TB setup.
Larger Maf
SLP 85mm. Thoughts on this and what is the advantage of de-screening it?
No need to upgrade the MAF at all, stay with the stock one, and descreen it at most if you feel a ridiculous itch to modify it for whatever reason.
Lid
SLP Cold air pac. Do I need the full cold air pac? Are there noticeable gains with this
compared to the lid alone? Is the Texas Speed lid better?
Lid will net you the most gains in this area. I have the SLP cold pac and it certainly helps on top of having the lid with a few extra hp.
Filter
K&N
Go with the K&N. It flows real well and make sure not to oil it too much that it bleeds onto your MAF and kills it. They last a real long time.
Smooth Bellows
SLP
Smooth bellows doesn't really gain anything, I'd be surprised if 1hp was gained. But it's up to you. A lot of people have it.
Plugs
NGK TR55 Spark Plugs. Do I need the Iridium?
TR55's should be perfect for you. Don't go with iridium, they're just a waste.
Wires
Taylor Spiro-Pro 8mm Spark Plug Wires
If you feel the itch for these, any set of aftermarket ones like MSD, NGK, Taylor should be fine.
Headers & Y-Pipe
Pacesetter Headers Long Tube & TSP Cat Y Pipe Combo. How is the fit and finish
on these? Does anyone know if the package sold by Texas Speed is coated? The web
site does not say.
Pacesetters and TSP catted Y are certainly a great bang for the buck. Do a search on these.
Header install kits
Do you normally have to purchase these separately or should they come with the
above package?
I'd personally just buy the install package from TSP if you're buying from them and be done with it unless there is crap in it you don't need.
Thermostat
Do I need to change?
No NEED to change it, but if you do go to a 180 or 160 you'll need to set your fans to come on earlier for the thermostat to do any good at keeping things cooler.
Cat Back System
Either Magnaflow or SLP Loudmouth II. Any thoughts or problems with these? I am
trying to keep my costs under $1200 for full exhaust system (with headers & Y-Pipe).
I loved my LM setup with cats and shorties. When I moved to long tubes without cats, it sounds like absolute crap. The SLP LMII should be a bit quieter though and will probably sound great since you will still have cats. A lot of people like Magnaflow's sound better as it's a bit quieter and tends to have a bit less rasp. It's up to you though. Go to www.ls1sounds.com and listen to all the sound clips so you can make a decision.
Clutch
LS6 Package. Will this hold the desired power? Again price was a determining factor
on this selection.
If you're gonna hit mid 400's I'd go beefier than an LS6. I personally have a single disk McLeod clutch and it holds real well at the low to mid 400 rwhp. I think the LS6 may be a bit too weak if you're looking to hit those kind of numbers. Just remember, the stronger the clutch, the harder it'll be to drive in stop and go traffic. I think mine is a perfect balance thus far, but it's up to you. Again, ask around on the forum.
Shifter
PRO-5.0 Short throw. How is this compared to the Hurst package? Is one better?
I moved from the stock Hurst to the Pro 5.0 with a Lou's short stick and it feels like the perfect combo to me. It's just notchy enough to let you know when you're in gear (which some people dislike) but it feels great to me.
What’s missing and am I on the right track?
[/font][/size]
I think u're pretty much on the right track of the list of things you need. If your motor is high mileage, I'd get a set of Comp OE replacement lifters to be safe. Other than that, I think you're set. All of my advice is assuming you're staying with a 346 and not going to a stroker setup. If you are going stroker, some of it would change.
#4
I just wanted to let you know that you are not limited to a smog friendly cam in Fairfax County and I'm pretty sure the whole state. They have changed all their emissions testing to hooking up a computer to see if you have any codes thrown on 96 or newer cars. They changed this last summer.
As far as all the other questions my advice is to go with a budget HC setup for your HP criteria.
Heads: LS6 ported heads milled to 62cc
Gasket: Use a stock gasket, cometics may leak like mine did.
Cam:I would do something around 224\228 581\581 on 112 (this will be nice for low and midrange)
Clutch:LS7 clutch (best bargain out there for your power)
If you want to do this cheap use the above for reference and don't get the 90\90 unless you don't have an LS6 intake. For the rest of your questions I'm sure others will chime in.
As far as all the other questions my advice is to go with a budget HC setup for your HP criteria.
Heads: LS6 ported heads milled to 62cc
Gasket: Use a stock gasket, cometics may leak like mine did.
Cam:I would do something around 224\228 581\581 on 112 (this will be nice for low and midrange)
Clutch:LS7 clutch (best bargain out there for your power)
If you want to do this cheap use the above for reference and don't get the 90\90 unless you don't have an LS6 intake. For the rest of your questions I'm sure others will chime in.
#5
TECH Senior Member
iTrader: (14)
Oh really, FFX changed the standards? They ONLY use OBDII connection now and no sniffer? That'd surely make my day Do they still have the visual? I've been wondering about this for a while as my emissions is coming up in Feb and I'm nowhere near stock anymore. I figured I'd just have to get a waiver somehow.
#6
Originally Posted by ArcticZ28
Oh really, FFX changed the standards? They ONLY use OBDII connection now and no sniffer? That'd surely make my day Do they still have the visual? I've been wondering about this for a while as my emissions is coming up in Feb and I'm nowhere near stock anymore. I figured I'd just have to get a waiver somehow.
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#8
Staging Lane
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Originally Posted by 99T/A
First question is that you said (All of the supporting bolt-ons and mods you could afford). What does you budget look like and how much do you want to spend? Is there a $ amount that you don't want to exceed? How radical of a setup can you handle everyday if this is going to be a DD?
#9
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Originally Posted by Doomsday
HPE's big box of goodies.
#10
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Originally Posted by ArcticZ28
All of my comments are incorporated above in your original quote.
I think u're pretty much on the right track of the list of things you need. If your motor is high mileage, I'd get a set of Comp OE replacement lifters to be safe. Other than that, I think you're set. All of my advice is assuming you're staying with a 346 and not going to a stroker setup. If you are going stroker, some of it would change.
I think u're pretty much on the right track of the list of things you need. If your motor is high mileage, I'd get a set of Comp OE replacement lifters to be safe. Other than that, I think you're set. All of my advice is assuming you're staying with a 346 and not going to a stroker setup. If you are going stroker, some of it would change.
Thanks for all the info your help is greatly appreciated
#11
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Originally Posted by Ksett
I just wanted to let you know that you are not limited to a smog friendly cam in Fairfax County and I'm pretty sure the whole state. They have changed all their emissions testing to hooking up a computer to see if you have any codes thrown on 96 or newer cars. They changed this last summer.
As far as all the other questions my advice is to go with a budget HC setup for your HP criteria.
Heads: LS6 ported heads milled to 62cc
Gasket: Use a stock gasket, cometics may leak like mine did.
Cam:I would do something around 224\228 581\581 on 112 (this will be nice for low and midrange)
Clutch:LS7 clutch (best bargain out there for your power)
If you want to do this cheap use the above for reference and don't get the 90\90 unless you don't have an LS6 intake. For the rest of your questions I'm sure others will chime in.
As far as all the other questions my advice is to go with a budget HC setup for your HP criteria.
Heads: LS6 ported heads milled to 62cc
Gasket: Use a stock gasket, cometics may leak like mine did.
Cam:I would do something around 224\228 581\581 on 112 (this will be nice for low and midrange)
Clutch:LS7 clutch (best bargain out there for your power)
If you want to do this cheap use the above for reference and don't get the 90\90 unless you don't have an LS6 intake. For the rest of your questions I'm sure others will chime in.
I still have the stock LS1 intake. The price difference is huge between the two that’s for sure. I will have to weigh the 10 to 15 hp verses price. Maybe I will go with a more aggressive cam to offset the 10 to 15hp since the emissions rules changed.
Would 224\228 581\581 on 112 be considered Mild or aggressive these days?
Thanks for the help.
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Staging Lane
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Originally Posted by 99T/A
I kinda have to agree with doomsday on this. A 475HP package for $3,350. Then you still have money left for susp., ect, ect.
Thanks
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Originally Posted by rickJames
I heard about that in another post. Whats in that package? I went to check it out on the web site but could not find any info on it. Would that be 475 rwhp with the package alone and no other supporting mods? If so it might be
Thanks
Thanks
HPE cam kit
Fast 90mm intake
Nick Williams 90mm throttle body
TB-MAF coupler
Kooks SS 1 3/4 or 1 7/8 headers
Kooks off road Y/X-pipe
ASP underdrive pulley with belts
NGK TR55 plugs
MSD 8.5mm wires.
#15
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Originally Posted by rickJames
I heard about that in another post. Whats in that package? I went to check it out on the web site but could not find any info on it. Would that be 475 rwhp with the package alone and no other supporting mods? If so it might be
Thanks
Thanks
And by the way, the 224/228 is considered quite mild these days.
#16
Staging Lane
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Just found the info
Package 1
FAST 90mm intake manifold
FAST 90mm throttle body
Custom silicon hose coupler for tb-maf
Kooks 1 3/4 or 1 7/8 stainless headers
Kooks offroad y-pipe
HPE "S" or "R" cam
Isky tool room springs
Isky titanium retainers
7.400 chromemoly pushrods
ASP underdrive pulley
Underdrive belts
NGK TR55 plugs
Taylor 8mm wires
415-450 rwhp
for $3550
Package 2
Borla Stinger Catback
Kooks 1 7/8 stainless headers
Kooks offroad 3" x-pipe
HPE "S" cam
HPE Springs with Titanium retainers
7.400 chromemoly pushrods
Callaway Cold Air Induction
ASP underdrive pulley
Underdrive belts
NGK TR55 plugs
MSD 8.5mm wires
420-460 rwhp
for $3750
Are they making those number thru stock heads?
Package 1
FAST 90mm intake manifold
FAST 90mm throttle body
Custom silicon hose coupler for tb-maf
Kooks 1 3/4 or 1 7/8 stainless headers
Kooks offroad y-pipe
HPE "S" or "R" cam
Isky tool room springs
Isky titanium retainers
7.400 chromemoly pushrods
ASP underdrive pulley
Underdrive belts
NGK TR55 plugs
Taylor 8mm wires
415-450 rwhp
for $3550
Package 2
Borla Stinger Catback
Kooks 1 7/8 stainless headers
Kooks offroad 3" x-pipe
HPE "S" cam
HPE Springs with Titanium retainers
7.400 chromemoly pushrods
Callaway Cold Air Induction
ASP underdrive pulley
Underdrive belts
NGK TR55 plugs
MSD 8.5mm wires
420-460 rwhp
for $3750
Are they making those number thru stock heads?
#18
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Originally Posted by ArcticZ28
Remember, that's 475 flywheel hp, not to the rear wheels. It'll be more like 400-425 rwhp depending on your drivetrain. HPE doesn't have much up on the site so the best bet is always to call them. They will help you out with anything you want and give you more info than you could ask for.
And by the way, the 224/228 is considered quite mild these days.
And by the way, the 224/228 is considered quite mild these days.
#19
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Originally Posted by rickJames
I thought that was a little high after seeing the package's contents. They are claiming rwhp in the package details. Is the HPE "S" or "R" cam a monster? Would that explain their numbers or is it a misprint?
#20
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Originally Posted by 99T/A
As far as I know yes. I only live 8 minutes from them and I am off tomorrow so if you would like me to find out I can do so.
You don't have to do that. I will call them up tomorrow. It’s your day off relax and have a . Thanks for the offer i am gona have to mail you a Heineken for that.