No Juice

iTrader: (11)

First off this is not a "this head is better than that head" or "my dick is bigger than yours" thread. I just wanted to get all the info in one place to make it easier for those looking to get a set of these heads and want to see all the facts not opinions. There are some info that I could not find so if you know please let me know
So in no particular order(If I didn't say that someone would get all pissy)

TSP / PRC
New 243 castings - CNC Ported - 2.00/1.55 Stock Valves - GM LS6/LS2 Valve Springs - Assembled - Milled to your spec
What do these have for retainers? Locks? Seals? Machined spring base?
$900
Competition Valve Job = +$100
Comp 918 Springs = +$150
Advertised Flow #'s (Intake Only) / (Exhaust??)
0.100 72
0.200 149
0.300 205
0.400 255
0.500 287
0.600 307
0.625 310
Intake Runner Volume = 237cc / Exhaust Runner Volume = ??

Patriot Performance
New 243 Casting - CNC Ported - 2.00/1.55 Stock Valves - Patriot Gold 0.650" Dual Valve Springs - Ti Retainers - Super 7 Locks - Viton Rubber Seals - Machined Spring Bases - Assembled - Milled to your spec
$1125
Bare Ported = $845 No valvetrain
GM LS6 Springs = $875
Ferrea 6000 2.02/1.57 valves & no springs = $1075
Ferrea 6000 2.02/1.57 valves & Patriot Gold 0.650" springs assembled = $1375, unassembled = $1275
Advertised Flow #'s (Intake) / (Exhaust)
0.100 72 / 65
0.200 140 / 124
0.300 202 / 160
0.400 244 / 196
0.500 280 / 220
0.550 291 / 226
0.600 304 / 229
Intake Runner Volume = 227cc / Exhaust Runner Volume = ??

Livernois Motorsports
Stage 1
New 243 Casting - CNC Ported - 2.00/1.55 Stock Valves - Livernois 0.580" Valve Springs - Assembled - Milled to your spec
What do these have for retainers? Locks? Seals? Machined spring base?
$949
Bare Ported = $830
Comp 918 Valve Springs = $1049
Stage 2
New 243 Casting - CNC Ported - 2.02/1.55 Valves - Livernois 0.580" Valve Springs - Assembled - Milled to your spec
What do these have for retainers? Locks? Seals? Machined spring base?
$1199
Comp 918 Valve Springs = $1249
Manley Dual Springs and Ti Retainers = $1499
Advertised Flow #'s (Stg 1 Int)(Stg 2 Int) / (Exhaust)
0.100 66 73 / 55
0.200 140 146 / 120
0.300 200 200 / 158
0.400 246 254 / 204
0.500 285 290 / 222
0.600 303 305 / 234
0.650 305 310 / 237
Intake Runner Volume = 220cc / Exhaust Runner Volume = ??
Note: This was confirmed from Rick @ Livernois

DART 205 / 225
205 Heads
New As Cast Heads - 2.02/1.60 Stainless Valves - Ti Retainers - 0.620" Valve Springs - Assembled - 62cc Combustion Chambers
$1300
205 Heads
New As Cast Heads - 2.05/1.60 Stainless Valves - Ti Retainers - 0.620" Valve Springs - Assembled - 62cc Combustion Chambers
$1300
Advertised Flow #'s (205)(225) / (Exhaust)
0.100
0.200 150 144 / 109
0.300 215 202 / 154
0.400 258 254 / 187
0.500 290 290 / 206
0.550 296 301 / 210
0.600 ??? 315 / 214
Intake Runner Volume = 205cc & 225cc / Exhaust Runner Volume = ??

TEA
Stage 1
5.7L 241 Castings Only - CNC Ported - 2.00/1.55 Stock Valves - Comp 918 Valve Springs - GM Locks - GM Seals - Machined Spring Bases - Assembled - Milled to your spec
$995 Exchange, $1245 Outright
Add 0.650" Dual Gold Springs and Ti Retainers = +$60
Stage 1.5
5.7L 241 Castings Only - CNC Ported - 2.02/1.55 Valves - TEA 0.650" Dual Valve Springs - Ti Retainers - GM Locks - GM Seals - Machined Spring Bases - Assembled - Milled to your spec
$1250 Exchange
Advertised Flow #'s (Stg 1)(Stg 1.5) / (Exhaust)
0.100 68.3 66.8 / 50.1
0.200 137.6 138.6 / 105.3
0.300 202.6 200.4 / 151.0
0.400 243.0 248.5 / 190.6
0.500 274.3 283.0 / 222.2
0.550 286.9 295.0 / 233.3
0.600 292.1 300.4 / 244.6
Intake Runner Volume = 225cc / Exhaust Runner Volume = ??

Again this is just some of the facts please add anything if I have missed it.

No Juice

iTrader: (11)

Now here are some flow sheet numbers (shipped with heads) that members on here have posted
Patriot Performance (intake) (exhaust)
0.100 79.3 61.9
0.200 155.7 120.6
0.300 218.7 165.1
0.400 256.3 199.7
0.500 284.5 216.8
0.600 300.0 225.6

Here are some independent Dart flow numbers
Independent Dart 205 Flow #'s (intake) (exhaust)
0.100 65.7
0.200 132.9
0.300 194.7
0.400 247.7
0.500 281.1 208
0.600 295.4 222.7

Independent Dart 205 Flow #'s (intake)
0.100 69.6
0.200 127.1
0.300 181.7
0.400 231.5
0.500 265.5
0.600 279.4

Independent Dart 225 Flow #'s (intake) (exhaust)
0.100 ???
0.200 140 98
0.300 203 136
0.400 252 165
0.500 285 181
0.600 285 190

Independent Dart 225 Flow #'s (intake) (exhaust)
0.100 65.7 60.4
0.200 128.8 104.0
0.300 185.9 143.7
0.400 237.5 180.9
0.500 274.5 195.3
0.600 294.1 204.1

It seems that the Darts don't flow quite as well as advertised

No Juice

iTrader: (11)

oops had some PP prices wrong

gollum

iTrader: (1)

The only comparison I see is price only. A truly good comparison would be to Dyno all these heads together and see which head makes better power for a certin combo.

black01_WS6

iTrader: (13)

any dart numbers?

No Juice

iTrader: (11)

Added some Dart stuff since they could be considered a Budget head. It seems the Darts pick up quite a bit if touched up some

No Juice

iTrader: (11)

Intake runner volume was confirmed to be 220cc for the Livernois heads not the 227 originally assumed

Brian Tooley Racing

iTrader: (13)

You should throw a quality perception into the mix, as I just saw one of these heads brand new with metal shavings falling out of the water jackets and the pushrod pinch was ported so thin it was about to break through.

I bet if someone started checking on some of the smoking problems of one of the above heads they would find they have holes into the crankcase from the intake port at the pushrod area.

How much more money is a head worth if you don't have to pull it off and replace it? Seems to me a few hundred more dollars for quality would be the right call for anyone.

KJ

iTrader: (1)

A couple of budget heads to think about also.... AFR's 205's & 225's cylinder head makes very good power, and leave out Edelbrocks new heads. Any of the threee are a good bang for the buck, and I could make you a good deal on them should you chose to go that direction!!

No Juice

iTrader: (11)

AFR's are certainly not a budget head at $2200

No Juice

iTrader: (11)

You're right, I was hoping people would chime in on some of the quality of these heads. This would provide a one stop shop for the budget heads.

Oh and sorry I haven't included yours yet but I'm working on it.
You have a pm

No Juice

iTrader: (11)

Added the TEA stuff

JZ'sTA

iTrader: (23)

HAHA, this is a budget head compairson. The top dogs aren't budget heads unless your Bill Gates.
Besides AFR has a very strick pricing policy, so I wouldn't try to give to good of a deal or AFR will be very unhappy.

Sharpe

iTrader: (7)

Man, thanks! This is a cool thread. I wonder how long the haters will manage to stay away.

Haters: there are a dozen active threads about cheap vs. quality, and there will be a dozen more by the end of the month. We can read all about the comparison there. Let this thread run its course so we can get some good info on how these heads perform!

People with these heads, post your dyno graphs!

GuitsBoy

iTrader: (4)

Ive not heard of this happening. I know patriot has a bad rap from the valve issue back in the day, but in recent years ive heard little else besides tons of satisfied customers. Plus gunnar is top notch to deal with if any issue does arise.

And any installer who dosnt clean out a head shouldnt be working with cars. Wne i buy a new cam from comp, futral or TSP ill certainly clean it out no matter how clean it looks on the outside. Its simply good practice.

Sharpe

iTrader: (7)

Boy, I'd like to see a PP vs. PRC shootout. Same car, same day, same dyno.

cantdrv65

iTrader: (3)

My TSP PRC LS6 heads looked great when I got em. They performed even better.... 435rwhp/400rwtq with a 228/228 114 + 4 LSA XER cam through the exhaust. I recently added a Fast 90/90 and should hit 450rwhp/410rwtq no problem the next time I dyno.... Car also made 320rwtq at 2500 rpms. Also I received my heads in a week but I got like the second or third set made, and no it didnt have the new competition valve job, any milling, and still utilized the stock valve size.....

Sharpe

iTrader: (7)

Bump.

a98ws6

iTrader: (48)

Me too!

N4cer

iTrader: (11)

You should add Livernois in there. I talked to the porter, and he tells me the runner is 215cc now, after some design refinements. But even if they're 220cc, they perform up there with the PP and PRC easily.