Ubergeist

iTrader: (6)

Just had a question, not sure where this would apply so I posted it here. Has to do with bolt ons, cam, and tune.

Car is a 2002 T/A M6
I just got back from the track, and my traps were from 105-107 but avg 106. All i have is slp lid, and slp cai.

I really do not want to spend the cash for headers and catted y-pipe. Because if I do it, I want to buy the kooks stainless, as I heard they have the best fit. And I am not too keen on noise increase as well.

So my next mod is porting and polishing my stock TB. Prolly some 3.73's(if it will help). And maybe get a real cat-back as all I have is tips and a muffler.

At that point I would be near 325whp no? So my question is, if I got a tune at that point would I really gain anything?

And lastly, since I really don't want to deal with the header/y-pipe. Would getting a cam be even worth it on stock manifolds? Just trying to keep it quiet as possible, so a stealthy cam would be nice. A thunder racing cam? A little lope would be okay.

Now for the last question. If I got a nice street/stealth cam, with the aforemention bolt ons(cat-back, lid, cai, tb) what type of whp would I be looking at, and also et@mph.

Thanks

blkZ28spt

Get headers before you get a cam.

If you are only worried about good fit get coated Pacesetters. They aren't stainless, but they fit well.

If you are worried about the noise run high flow cats and either the SLP dual/dual, Hooker or Magnaflow cat-back. My vote would be for the Hooker due to price, and I like the tips.

A street/stealth cam with full bolt-ons and tune can make good power. Have you looked up Thunder Racings CheaTR?

A tune will add power to any car, even stock. The more mods, the more of a benfit you will see. If you don't plan on installing a cam for awhile getting a tune after finishing bolt ons (especially headers) is not a bad idea.

Ubergeist

iTrader: (6)

The stainless is kind of a must, due to the fact the car will be driven through snow and salt. And it is like 1500bux all said and done for the kooks. I figured just go with a stealth cam for the same power increase, as my funds are limited. I heard of the Cheater, but havn't looked it up yet.

What power would you estimate on the CheatR, with and with out headers.

blkZ28spt

You don't need stainless unless you want great looking headers (from under the car). I have coated Jet-Hots (same design as Pacesetter) that have been on my daily driver Z28 for several full years here in the rust belt. They still look alright from under the hood but are all rusted from under the car...and it doesn't bother me. They work perfectly and it's not like they are going to rust through or anything.

The CheaTR does work well with the stock exhaust, but you WILL be leaving power on the table versus going with headers and/or a slightly more aggressive cam.

bigman

iTrader: (1)

If you dont want headers, then the best cam is the CheatR cam by thunder racing. It is designed to run best on a non header car. I have pacesetters on my car and they went in with no prblems. You can get a set of pacesetters with a texas speed catted Y for about 700, which is about what Kooks cost alone. The quality may not be as good as the Kooks, but they are still quality headers.

radz

iTrader: (3)

I have a lid,plugs & wires and SLP LM, SLP MAF ( which I didnt need ) and a spec 3 and I made 311/326 before tune and 334/354 after.

Ubergeist

iTrader: (6)

You just convinced me not to get headers, lol. If I can put down between 330-340 with a tune. I will be happy. Most people I have seen that dyno LT's and y-pipe dyno at 350whp. Not worth the cash imo for 15-20whp. Maybe I am missing something, but what is a spec 3, I assume clutch?

The thunder CheatR how much additional whp are we looking at?

radz

iTrader: (3)

yea its a clutch, lots of people have problems with them but I havent had a single one. also get some nice tires and that will help a lot.

radz

iTrader: (3)

You would probably see 36X-370 with the CheatR cam. I must admit I am very impressed with the LS1 motor. For the little amount of power I have, the car is pretty quick. And Im coming from a 455ci 7.5 litre.

'02 SLP#686

iTrader: (1)

A tune when my car was full bolt-on minus intake was by the far the best seat of the pants mod - it was the only thing I ever did that actually made the car feel different. Totally owrth it in my opinion. While you won't gain HP numbers up top all that much - the mid range will increase significantly (for the money spent). That is where you spend most of your time driving anyway.

Just my $.02

'02 SLP#686

iTrader: (1)

And for what it is worth - everyone's dyno and car is different. I put down 329/343 (SAE) with LTs - No cats - Magnaflow - K&N FIPK II.

ChocoTaco369

i'd say goodness no for a cam with stock manifolds. that would be like eating dessert before dinner. too much cam and not enough exhaust airflow could actually damage the motor being it'll get a lot hotter in there.

i mean you could do it, but i'd recommend against. if you were certain to get a cam, i wouldn't get anything above a 224/224. even that's a little high. maybe the old man cam or something from thunder racing...but i'm no cam genius.

save your money for headers, then get a cam then get a tune. if that's too much action and noise for you, i'd just drive the car the way it is.

but if you're POSITIVE you don't want to put anything else into your car, get the tune. it'll really help, it would just suck to spend $500 on a tune then want headers and a cam down the road and need another tune. you want your tune to be your last mod.

3.90's or 4.10's work nice in an M6 too.

s346k

iTrader: (4)

what about the ls6 cam? would be a gain over stock, retain the stock idle, and you can get springs & cam for less than the price of only the cam from TR.

i'd say with most bolt-ons minus headers you could put down ~360-365 rwhp. include underdrive pulley, and don't change your gears unless you plan on jumping up to 410s.

edit: add ls6 heads (now $415 shipped to your door from patriot) and you've got a dead reliable stealthy setup that will run.

you could probably run low 12s @ 115-116 with a setup like that (assuming an easy launch due to the 10 bolt)

ChocoTaco369

^^^yea you could get the LS6 cam cheap but you'd still have to pay several hundred for install. i'd say if you're gonna do that, you may as well put up another $200-$300 at this point to see some real big gains. shoot, even the old man cam dynoed a 35hp increase over stock on TR. of course the car is modded more but if you have a good tuner you could squeeze 25hp outta that.

Ubergeist

iTrader: (6)

so your saying 415 for heads + 150 for z06 cam and springs, plus porting my throttle body, underdrive pulley and tune. I will be able to run low 12's?

Thats like 1k worth of stuff. Not bad at all. Less money than the headers and y-pipe, plus the car would be driving like stock.

I originally wanted to go with the ls6 cam, but everyone says its a waste of time.

Low 12's sounds good to me.

blkZ28spt

That's because you want stainless steel headers and not coated pacesetters. They would be cheaper and fit perfectly fine.

Still have to install all of that, which includes tools and bolts/gaskets and/or labor.

Don't know how easily you can get a Z06 cam and good springs for $150.

How much are you counting on spending for the tune?

shudog

iTrader: (3)

I put in the Z06 cam myself in my car with nothing other than regular tools and alot of research on this website. I've done 5 cam swaps now and it's really not hard. Give yourself a weekend with a helper and you'll be fine. The Z06 cam is nearly undetectable, but it definitely pulls harder from 3000 rpm and up with no loss of low end. I never had my car tuned afterward, so I know I'm missing out on about 25 hp but the car runs fine and I know I'm not done adding mods yet, so I'm going to wait on the tune!

Good luck, search is your friend!

02TaOwner

I have pacesetters ceramic coated,o2 extentions, o2 sims, ory (all for $700) going into my stock muffler with an electric cutout. Its sounds stock, unless i open it up. Just another set up you might want to consider, and it can handle a cam if you want later on.

FstBlkz28

iTrader: (13)

If your going to do a cam, you might as well put the cam in there that'll give you the most power. That will more than likely be the cheater, which on a full bolt on car and a tune will probably give you somewhere around 360-370 like mentioned before. It's got an off idle power band, so its got good lowend, and it pulls all the way up into the rev's. The cam was designed by Thunder for cars w/ stock exhaust setups aka ... it won't hurt your car running this cam and the stock manifolds. You could throw the CheaTR heads in there as well, which thunder has shown over 400rwhp with the complete package and stock exhaust if you still want more power over the cam. The reason it wont hurt your car is because the cam has significantly more exhaust duration than the intake. Allowing for the less hiflowing exhaust (stock).
This isn't to say that the cheaTR won't benefit from headers still if you decide to put them on at a later date, but you won't be hurting anything without the headers.

For comparison heres the stock specs and the cheaTR specs:

198/208 .500/.500
214/230 .601/.578 117 LSA

If you don't want the noise of headers, you don't have to get them to get a power increase. However, a nice set of headers w/ a good catted Ypipe and a mild catback will give you a nice rumble at idle, growl at part throttle, and then let whoever your beating at the time know that you aren't stock as they watch your *** end dissappear

donkey mule

I would get the headers first and then get a tune. You would be surprised at how much it will wake your car up!