160* thermostat?
08-17-2006, 02:58 PM
#1
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160* thermostat? How much cooler on a hot day? With stock thermo. and lower fan settings, my car will not stay around 190-194* on an 80-90* day. How much cooler would a 160 put me?
08-17-2006, 03:04 PM
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My car runs in the mid to high 180's with a 160 stat. I also have a big old tranny cooler and FRA in front of the radiator, so without that stuff maybe a few degrees cooler.
08-17-2006, 03:09 PM
#3
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not a whole lot cooler. nowhere near 160* if that's what you're wondering. around 10 degrees is likely, that's about what i saw on my old firebird.
before you go and put in a t-stat if you're thinking about it, what are you running? i personally don't see the need to a t-stat unless you're running nitrous or FI or it's a dedicated track car. you're not going to see much of a hp gain from it. remember, it's cold air that shows horsepower gain. the engine running cooler isn't gonna give you a whole lot of performance. maybe a few horsepower at best, but it carries a price.
engines today are made to run hotter. they are designed by GM to run hotter because they produce less emissions, stay cleaner, get better mpg and wear less, not to mention fuel has higher energy at hotter temps.
when you lower the temperature of the engine itself, a few things happen:
1.) you don't heat up the oil enogh to boil the water out. water falls into the bottom of your oil pan and the hotter temperatures are a way of boiling it out. this is why you can run oils today for 3,000+ miles. back in the 60's and so, engines were tuned to run cooler because fluids (coolant, motor oil) broke down very quickly at high temperatures. you had to change your oil every 1,000 miles or so back then. now, the coolant/motor oil doesn't break down til over 250 degrees, so it's best to run the engine hot.
2.) your motor will be dirtier running cooler. the detergents in oil are heat activated. in order for them to clean best, they have to reach around 210-215 degrees. running your motor cooler will only keep it dirtier. like i said above, in the 60's, you had to do 1,000 mile oil changes since the engines ran cool and the oil did a poor cleaning job.
3.) your motor will wear more since your oil is not doing its job as well and while this will not blow up your motor or anything, overtime it can shorten its life.
4.) fuel mileage loss of up to 4 mpg have been made with a 160 degree t-stat. you will likely see a decrease in fuel economy due to a 160* thermostat.
sorry if i'm rambling on, i just don't particularly like the things. i stupidly put one in my old car. i lost fuel economy, felt no performance gains at all and noticed my oil was dirtier than usual on oil changes. never again, never again.
before you go and put in a t-stat if you're thinking about it, what are you running? i personally don't see the need to a t-stat unless you're running nitrous or FI or it's a dedicated track car. you're not going to see much of a hp gain from it. remember, it's cold air that shows horsepower gain. the engine running cooler isn't gonna give you a whole lot of performance. maybe a few horsepower at best, but it carries a price.
engines today are made to run hotter. they are designed by GM to run hotter because they produce less emissions, stay cleaner, get better mpg and wear less, not to mention fuel has higher energy at hotter temps.
when you lower the temperature of the engine itself, a few things happen:
1.) you don't heat up the oil enogh to boil the water out. water falls into the bottom of your oil pan and the hotter temperatures are a way of boiling it out. this is why you can run oils today for 3,000+ miles. back in the 60's and so, engines were tuned to run cooler because fluids (coolant, motor oil) broke down very quickly at high temperatures. you had to change your oil every 1,000 miles or so back then. now, the coolant/motor oil doesn't break down til over 250 degrees, so it's best to run the engine hot.
2.) your motor will be dirtier running cooler. the detergents in oil are heat activated. in order for them to clean best, they have to reach around 210-215 degrees. running your motor cooler will only keep it dirtier. like i said above, in the 60's, you had to do 1,000 mile oil changes since the engines ran cool and the oil did a poor cleaning job.
3.) your motor will wear more since your oil is not doing its job as well and while this will not blow up your motor or anything, overtime it can shorten its life.
4.) fuel mileage loss of up to 4 mpg have been made with a 160 degree t-stat. you will likely see a decrease in fuel economy due to a 160* thermostat.
sorry if i'm rambling on, i just don't particularly like the things. i stupidly put one in my old car. i lost fuel economy, felt no performance gains at all and noticed my oil was dirtier than usual on oil changes. never again, never again.
08-17-2006, 03:13 PM
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I have an LT1, don't know if that matters. I just installed my 160 degree stat, and already have manual fans. Here in northern Cali it's around 100 degrees everyday with a lot of traffic. My car doesn't go over 170 degrees. A great mod IMO
08-17-2006, 03:45 PM
#5
I've had a 160 stat in my car since 10k miles. My ect rarely climbs over 185 sitting in 110 degree weather. Usually stays around 178-184 degrees. My oil temps have absolutely no problem reaching 225 degrees (have a gauge in car). I tore into the engine at 60k miles and it was spotless, little to no wear at all, no sludge, looked like it had maybe 10k miles on it (synthetic oil run since 3k miles). The only downfall is the heater doesn't get quite as hot in the winter, but it rarely gets driven in that weather. I don't think it's a bad mod at all. Temps will stay close to 180 and that's plenty warm. I like that fact that it helps keep the tranny temps down as well....never goes above 180 going through factory cooler + external cooler in front of radiator. I noticed no change in fuel economy after t'stat change. My $.02.
08-17-2006, 03:54 PM
#6
Originally Posted by jmm98LS1
I've had a 160 stat in my car since 10k miles. My ect rarely climbs over 185 sitting in 110 degree weather. Usually stays around 178-184 degrees. My oil temps have absolutely no problem reaching 225 degrees (have a gauge in car). I tore into the engine at 60k miles and it was spotless, little to no wear at all, no sludge, looked like it had maybe 10k miles on it (synthetic oil run since 3k miles). The only downfall is the heater doesn't get quite as hot in the winter, but it rarely gets driven in that weather. I don't think it's a bad mod at all. Temps will stay close to 180 and that's plenty warm. I like that fact that it helps keep the tranny temps down as well....never goes above 180 going through factory cooler + external cooler in front of radiator. I noticed no change in fuel economy after t'stat change. My $.02.
08-17-2006, 04:25 PM
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Some old fart at AutoZone told me that my car would overheat if I put in a 160* t-stat... I personaly see no reason for that to be even remotely true. But I can believe the oil problems. What about the benefits gained from keeping the combustion chamber cooler and deterring detonation?
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08-17-2006, 05:04 PM
#8
Originally Posted by jmm98LS1
I've had a 160 stat in my car since 10k miles. My ect rarely climbs over 185 sitting in 110 degree weather. Usually stays around 178-184 degrees. My oil temps have absolutely no problem reaching 225 degrees (have a gauge in car). I tore into the engine at 60k miles and it was spotless, little to no wear at all, no sludge, looked like it had maybe 10k miles on it (synthetic oil run since 3k miles). The only downfall is the heater doesn't get quite as hot in the winter, but it rarely gets driven in that weather. I don't think it's a bad mod at all. Temps will stay close to 180 and that's plenty warm. I like that fact that it helps keep the tranny temps down as well....never goes above 180 going through factory cooler + external cooler in front of radiator. I noticed no change in fuel economy after t'stat change. My $.02.
08-17-2006, 10:38 PM
#9
Originally Posted by ChocoTaco369
2.) your motor will be dirtier running cooler. the detergents in oil are heat activated. in order for them to clean best, they have to reach around 210-215 degrees. running your motor cooler will only keep it dirtier. like i said above, in the 60's, you had to do 1,000 mile oil changes since the engines ran cool and the oil did a poor cleaning job.
professor choco concludes with this
.......and noticed my oil was dirtier than usual on oil changes.
Q: What does a Oil Detergent do?
My A: I think it cleans the engine and gets dirt out and prevents sludge buildup
Q: If your motor is running colder with a 160* tstat then detergents arent working to full potential?
My A: If you believe the above theory....Yes
Q: When a detergent is cleaning the engine and traping dirt and preventing sludge where do these contaminants go?
My A: The oil
How can this be tho? Choco said he put a 160 tstat in and when he changed oil later on he noticed it was dirtier.
When a detergent cleans, it gets the dirt out of the engine? shouldnt the oil be dirty with a detergent? do some magic srubbing bubbles get rid of dirt?
Should oil come out the exact color it went...like olive oil.....no
Dirt works its way into the engine sneaking past the air filter when you drive in really dirty dusty conditions and many other ways.
When a detergent works...oil gets dirty...linking dirtier oil to a dirtier running engine is BS and cant be said.
I feel bad for everyone that believes that having read your post.
what you said about linking 160 tstat to your dirtier oil is no link.no proof...its BS
08-17-2006, 10:53 PM
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Originally Posted by ChocoTaco369
not a whole lot cooler. nowhere near 160* if that's what you're wondering. around 10 degrees is likely, that's about what i saw on my old firebird.
before you go and put in a t-stat if you're thinking about it, what are you running? i personally don't see the need to a t-stat unless you're running nitrous or FI or it's a dedicated track car. you're not going to see much of a hp gain from it. remember, it's cold air that shows horsepower gain. the engine running cooler isn't gonna give you a whole lot of performance. maybe a few horsepower at best, but it carries a price.
engines today are made to run hotter. they are designed by GM to run hotter because they produce less emissions, stay cleaner, get better mpg and wear less, not to mention fuel has higher energy at hotter temps.
when you lower the temperature of the engine itself, a few things happen:
1.) you don't heat up the oil enogh to boil the water out. water falls into the bottom of your oil pan and the hotter temperatures are a way of boiling it out. this is why you can run oils today for 3,000+ miles. back in the 60's and so, engines were tuned to run cooler because fluids (coolant, motor oil) broke down very quickly at high temperatures. you had to change your oil every 1,000 miles or so back then. now, the coolant/motor oil doesn't break down til over 250 degrees, so it's best to run the engine hot.
2.) your motor will be dirtier running cooler. the detergents in oil are heat activated. in order for them to clean best, they have to reach around 210-215 degrees. running your motor cooler will only keep it dirtier. like i said above, in the 60's, you had to do 1,000 mile oil changes since the engines ran cool and the oil did a poor cleaning job.
3.) your motor will wear more since your oil is not doing its job as well and while this will not blow up your motor or anything, overtime it can shorten its life.
4.) fuel mileage loss of up to 4 mpg have been made with a 160 degree t-stat. you will likely see a decrease in fuel economy due to a 160* thermostat.
sorry if i'm rambling on, i just don't particularly like the things. i stupidly put one in my old car. i lost fuel economy, felt no performance gains at all and noticed my oil was dirtier than usual on oil changes. never again, never again.
before you go and put in a t-stat if you're thinking about it, what are you running? i personally don't see the need to a t-stat unless you're running nitrous or FI or it's a dedicated track car. you're not going to see much of a hp gain from it. remember, it's cold air that shows horsepower gain. the engine running cooler isn't gonna give you a whole lot of performance. maybe a few horsepower at best, but it carries a price.
engines today are made to run hotter. they are designed by GM to run hotter because they produce less emissions, stay cleaner, get better mpg and wear less, not to mention fuel has higher energy at hotter temps.
when you lower the temperature of the engine itself, a few things happen:
1.) you don't heat up the oil enogh to boil the water out. water falls into the bottom of your oil pan and the hotter temperatures are a way of boiling it out. this is why you can run oils today for 3,000+ miles. back in the 60's and so, engines were tuned to run cooler because fluids (coolant, motor oil) broke down very quickly at high temperatures. you had to change your oil every 1,000 miles or so back then. now, the coolant/motor oil doesn't break down til over 250 degrees, so it's best to run the engine hot.
2.) your motor will be dirtier running cooler. the detergents in oil are heat activated. in order for them to clean best, they have to reach around 210-215 degrees. running your motor cooler will only keep it dirtier. like i said above, in the 60's, you had to do 1,000 mile oil changes since the engines ran cool and the oil did a poor cleaning job.
3.) your motor will wear more since your oil is not doing its job as well and while this will not blow up your motor or anything, overtime it can shorten its life.
4.) fuel mileage loss of up to 4 mpg have been made with a 160 degree t-stat. you will likely see a decrease in fuel economy due to a 160* thermostat.
sorry if i'm rambling on, i just don't particularly like the things. i stupidly put one in my old car. i lost fuel economy, felt no performance gains at all and noticed my oil was dirtier than usual on oil changes. never again, never again.
I live in texas, its 105 here on a daily basis. So your saying I wouldnt see a gain with a 160 stat.
08-18-2006, 08:53 AM
#12
Tech Resident
Originally Posted by ilirw325
Choco lets play the Q&A game so you can inform me and anyone else who thinks like me.
Q: What does a Oil Detergent do?
My A: I think it cleans the engine and gets dirt out and prevents sludge buildup
Q: If your motor is running colder with a 160* tstat then detergents arent working to full potential?
My A: If you believe the above theory....Yes
Q: When a detergent is cleaning the engine and traping dirt and preventing sludge where do these contaminants go?
My A: The oil
How can this be tho? Choco said he put a 160 tstat in and when he changed oil later on he noticed it was dirtier.
When a detergent cleans, it gets the dirt out of the engine? shouldnt the oil be dirty with a detergent? do some magic srubbing bubbles get rid of dirt?
Should oil come out the exact color it went...like olive oil.....no
Dirt works its way into the engine sneaking past the air filter when you drive in really dirty dusty conditions and many other ways.
When a detergent works...oil gets dirty...linking dirtier oil to a dirtier running engine is BS and cant be said.
I feel bad for everyone that believes that having read your post.
what you said about linking 160 tstat to your dirtier oil is no link.no proof...its BS
Q: What does a Oil Detergent do?
My A: I think it cleans the engine and gets dirt out and prevents sludge buildup
Q: If your motor is running colder with a 160* tstat then detergents arent working to full potential?
My A: If you believe the above theory....Yes
Q: When a detergent is cleaning the engine and traping dirt and preventing sludge where do these contaminants go?
My A: The oil
How can this be tho? Choco said he put a 160 tstat in and when he changed oil later on he noticed it was dirtier.
When a detergent cleans, it gets the dirt out of the engine? shouldnt the oil be dirty with a detergent? do some magic srubbing bubbles get rid of dirt?
Should oil come out the exact color it went...like olive oil.....no
Dirt works its way into the engine sneaking past the air filter when you drive in really dirty dusty conditions and many other ways.
When a detergent works...oil gets dirty...linking dirtier oil to a dirtier running engine is BS and cant be said.
I feel bad for everyone that believes that having read your post.
what you said about linking 160 tstat to your dirtier oil is no link.no proof...its BS
*emphatically*: BECAUSE WHEN THE ENGINE RUNS COLDER, IT PRODUCES MORE HYDROCARBONS AND HIGHER EMISSIONS BY BEING LESS EFFICIENT AND BURNING LESS COMPLETELY, THEREBY MAKING THE OIL DIRTIER. WHEN ENGINES RUN HOTTER, THEY BURN CLEANER AND DIRTY THE OIL LESS.
i can't believe you just wasted your time making that post when it's obviously wrong. colder engines make more soot. that was an easy one.
simply put, my oil was thicker and blacker. i'm telling you what i saw - no power gain, a loss of about 1-2 mpg and more viscous, dirty oil.
theory behind it is sound also.
is my post BS? hardly. you're just up in arms because it's against what you have planted in your head. it's like talking to a brick wall sometimes
08-18-2006, 10:06 AM
#15
i cant see a 10 degree drop in coolant temperature doing what you say it does....because my oil comes out like it did before i had a 160 tstat.
if you had a real nasty cam then yes oil will get dirty faster, but a Stock car? give me a break
So really its just what i think vs what you think
and jmm98ls1 agrees
if you had a real nasty cam then yes oil will get dirty faster, but a Stock car? give me a break
So really its just what i think vs what you think
and jmm98ls1 agrees
I've had a 160 stat in my car since 10k miles. My ect rarely climbs over 185 sitting in 110 degree weather. Usually stays around 178-184 degrees. My oil temps have absolutely no problem reaching 225 degrees (have a gauge in car). I tore into the engine at 60k miles and it was spotless, little to no wear at all, no sludge, looked like it had maybe 10k miles on it (synthetic oil run since 3k miles). The only downfall is the heater doesn't get quite as hot in the winter, but it rarely gets driven in that weather. I don't think it's a bad mod at all. Temps will stay close to 180 and that's plenty warm. I like that fact that it helps keep the tranny temps down as well....never goes above 180 going through factory cooler + external cooler in front of radiator. I noticed no change in fuel economy after t'stat change. My $.02.
08-18-2006, 10:21 AM
#16
Nice sig ilirw325! Maybe next he'll tell us we're subhuman and have us drink poisoned cool aid while wearing nike shoes so that we'll reach a higher plane of being! For those of you who don't know what I'm talking about: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heaven%27s_Gate_%28cult%29
08-18-2006, 10:58 AM
#17
Tech Resident
allow me to clarify. on my car, it had a 195* thermostat. i saw about a 20* drop in temps according to the temp gauge, which was accurate in my car, albeit about 25* too low (read ~185* when it was ~210*, i know this because i got it scanned at a shop once and the PCM read 210 when it showed ~185*.) the 160* t-stat moved it to 165* on the gauge when it read 185* with the stocker.
for an LS1, i estimated 10* simply because i believe the stock t-stat is a 186* t-stat, so logically, the temp will drop a little less with a 160* t-stat than it would with a car with a 195* stocker.
for an LS1, i estimated 10* simply because i believe the stock t-stat is a 186* t-stat, so logically, the temp will drop a little less with a 160* t-stat than it would with a car with a 195* stocker.
08-18-2006, 11:32 AM
#18
So what's the argument here now? I'm a little lost.
For the thread starter, to make your 160 stat to work to its full potential reset the fan settings to come on sooner. It is your choice or best of your knowledge to what temperature should your fans to come on. I had mine set to 160 on low and 180 on high. Here in Arkansas where I've seen 100+ plus degree temperature constantly, it would benefit my car to run cooler even though it won't really run as cool as 160*. In actuality it will probably run at a cool of high 170 to high 180.
For the thread starter, to make your 160 stat to work to its full potential reset the fan settings to come on sooner. It is your choice or best of your knowledge to what temperature should your fans to come on. I had mine set to 160 on low and 180 on high. Here in Arkansas where I've seen 100+ plus degree temperature constantly, it would benefit my car to run cooler even though it won't really run as cool as 160*. In actuality it will probably run at a cool of high 170 to high 180.
08-18-2006, 11:49 AM
#19
There is some truth to what taco is saying but I really dont think lowering your temp 10 degree's is going to cause the dramatic results taco claims.( I have a 160 and didnt notice any difference) in anything.
IS he right about temps and oil. Yes there is a certain amount of accuracy there but swapping to a 160 term isnt going to be detrimental to your cars health. With all the seafoam and cleaning you've done to your engine Taco I'm not sure how you can claim an accurate result. You dont have many mods, which is not to say you havent mod'ed one in the past. Telling this guy he will hurt his motors longevity by swapping to a 160 really isnt an accurate statement and you have absolutely no scientific proof at all. How controlled are you experiments?? Do you know what a controlled experiment is?
You say you did the swap and found dirtier oil. Did you do it only once? What were the other conditions? weather humidity? Honestly you can not claim a fact by a one time experiment. Consistent results net factual claims.
Your right fire burns better when hotter.
IS he right about temps and oil. Yes there is a certain amount of accuracy there but swapping to a 160 term isnt going to be detrimental to your cars health. With all the seafoam and cleaning you've done to your engine Taco I'm not sure how you can claim an accurate result. You dont have many mods, which is not to say you havent mod'ed one in the past. Telling this guy he will hurt his motors longevity by swapping to a 160 really isnt an accurate statement and you have absolutely no scientific proof at all. How controlled are you experiments?? Do you know what a controlled experiment is?
You say you did the swap and found dirtier oil. Did you do it only once? What were the other conditions? weather humidity? Honestly you can not claim a fact by a one time experiment. Consistent results net factual claims.
Your right fire burns better when hotter.
08-18-2006, 12:19 PM
#20
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Man, people are so quick to jump down someones throught on these boards. Taco's statements do have validity to them. However, you're not going to notice any deterimental effects from running a 160* tstat under normal driving conditions. Compare it to the FDA and sacharin. Sure it causes cancer, but you would have to eat a bathtub full of the stuff. Anyways, engines are meant to run hotter these days, but you're not really going to noticably shorten the cars life. However, with that being said, if your car is just a daily driver, the 160* tstat isn't going to do you much good either.