View Poll Results: heads
Dart 205
37
31.36%
Livernois
33
27.97%
PRC Stage 1
48
40.68%
Voters: 118. You may not vote on this poll
dart 205/Livernois /prc stage 1
#2
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The reason I decided on the Livernois with my X3:
1 - I have seen the Livernois Stage 1 and a G5X2 work GREAT together.
2 - I like their smaller intake runner size better than some other options.
3 - I wanted the Darts but they don't have enough people using them and posting experience to convince me that it's worth taking the chance.
4 - I haven't heard horror stories about the rocker mounts breaking like with some competitors.
Honestly, I'd like to see you do the G5X2 and some Dart 205s. I almost got that setup, and I think it'd be sweet. But I think any of the above 3 heads will do a great job for you after we've talked about your goals. But I voted for the Livernois because I've seen that setup work for sure.
1 - I have seen the Livernois Stage 1 and a G5X2 work GREAT together.
2 - I like their smaller intake runner size better than some other options.
3 - I wanted the Darts but they don't have enough people using them and posting experience to convince me that it's worth taking the chance.
4 - I haven't heard horror stories about the rocker mounts breaking like with some competitors.
Honestly, I'd like to see you do the G5X2 and some Dart 205s. I almost got that setup, and I think it'd be sweet. But I think any of the above 3 heads will do a great job for you after we've talked about your goals. But I voted for the Livernois because I've seen that setup work for sure.
#3
FormerVendor
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Go with what is known to make power, don't go by internet hype or people who sit behind a computer and act like they know what they are talking about. The PRC stage 1 head cannot be beaten for the money, it is proven to make great power. Go with what has been proven to make power!! Pick up this month's GM High Tech Performance and see what the PRC heads did during dyno testing. Don't spend more money for a product that is NOT going to perform as well.
If you need any pricing or info let me know and I'll be glad to help!
Zach
If you need any pricing or info let me know and I'll be glad to help!
Zach
#4
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iTrader: (11)
There ya go. My sentiments exactly. You can't go wrong with the PRCs or the Livernois. There's tons of happy PRC 243 users on here. And I've personally witnessed happy customers with the PRCs (well the only set I've seen a local have) and the Livernois. I actually don't know anyone who wishes they hadn't bought either of those 2 heads.
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#10
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I say go with the Darts. I used them with a Futral cam and msde 452 rwhp and 423 rwtq. I have the 205s, but would suggest the 225s for later growth. There are numerous people using the Darts here in Louisiana and making great power.
#11
FormerVendor
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BTW, a dart 205 out of the box does not even compare to either PRC or Livernois stage 1 heads. The last out of the box 205 we put on the flowbench went 265 or something like that, it does not flow well whatsoever. Go pick up the new GM High Tech magazine and look at what they flowed the Dart at, a whopping 261 @ .600
#14
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Originally Posted by Zach@Texas-Speed
Go pick up the new GM High Tech magazine and look at what they flowed the Dart at, a whopping 261 @ .600
#15
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Originally Posted by Zach@Texas-Speed
BTW, a dart 205 out of the box does not even compare to either PRC or Livernois stage 1 heads. The last out of the box 205 we put on the flowbench went 265 or something like that, it does not flow well whatsoever. Go pick up the new GM High Tech magazine and look at what they flowed the Dart at, a whopping 261 @ .600
If the Dart heads flow so poorly, why is Allen Futral continuing to order set after set for customer cars? Probably because they don't flow quite so poorly.
For the record my Dart 205s flowed 280 cfm. On the same bench your heads went 30x cfm.
Ben T.
#16
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iTrader: (11)
I'm curious about the same thing, Ben. Maybe TSP will show their faith by allowing some independent flowbenching, and showing something like CFM per cc of intake runner volume. That would help sell their products to people who know more than just follow the advertising.
#19
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The Dart heads we flowed(that went 265 on our bench) were out of the box Darts. If you have seen this months GMHTP article, then you know that they flowed 261CFM(on an independent bench). Our stage 1 CNC head flows 308CFM at .600" on our bench. Absurd? No. With numbers from 2 different benches flowing this low, it wouldn't be a hard decision on which head to go with. I'm not saying they don't have the potential to flow well with a good port, but out of the box Darts aren't that impressive. In fact, the Darts that we used to port flowed very well.
No bother, my car made 409-410RWtq with a 237cc runner, so if you're going with the theory that big runner heads don't make torque then...
You're right, we do have faith in our products. We are willing to put any of our heads up against any other head. If I remember correctly, we tried to do that once...somehow we had some heads ready but it turned out the "other" company couldn't send heads (We were going to dyno test heads back to back on an independent dyno). We won't speak for what other companies do or do not use. We always post honest results. Customers verify whatever shops advertise for flow numbers, so why would we lie? Our heads were flow-tested at the School of Automotive Machinists in Houston, and they flowed MORE than what we advertise on their bench! Thunder Racing has also flow-tested our cylinder heads. The last thing we lack is credibility. The heads are more than proven, and time and time again people want to think that more money has to translate to a better product. Just because our cylinder heads cost less does NOT mean that it's an inferior head. It's nothing more than mind over matter in a numbers game. We're well aware that peak numbers aren't everything. Remember, we're the ones with a cylinder head company. Assuming peak numbers are everything is just as bad as assuming that you won't make any torque with a larger runner port. I doubt that the flow numbers that GMHTP published are bogus. If they are, I would expect there to be HUGE liability for them.
Brian
No bother, my car made 409-410RWtq with a 237cc runner, so if you're going with the theory that big runner heads don't make torque then...
You're right, we do have faith in our products. We are willing to put any of our heads up against any other head. If I remember correctly, we tried to do that once...somehow we had some heads ready but it turned out the "other" company couldn't send heads (We were going to dyno test heads back to back on an independent dyno). We won't speak for what other companies do or do not use. We always post honest results. Customers verify whatever shops advertise for flow numbers, so why would we lie? Our heads were flow-tested at the School of Automotive Machinists in Houston, and they flowed MORE than what we advertise on their bench! Thunder Racing has also flow-tested our cylinder heads. The last thing we lack is credibility. The heads are more than proven, and time and time again people want to think that more money has to translate to a better product. Just because our cylinder heads cost less does NOT mean that it's an inferior head. It's nothing more than mind over matter in a numbers game. We're well aware that peak numbers aren't everything. Remember, we're the ones with a cylinder head company. Assuming peak numbers are everything is just as bad as assuming that you won't make any torque with a larger runner port. I doubt that the flow numbers that GMHTP published are bogus. If they are, I would expect there to be HUGE liability for them.
Brian
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01 NBM Z28- A4 w/3.23s, TSP Black Lid, Hooker Catback, Pacesetter Headers w/ORY, ASP Pulley, Ported Throttle Body, TSP Torq. v3(231/234) Camshaft, TCI 4400, PRC Stg 1 Heads
Texas Speed & Performance
www.texas-speed.com
(806) 866-0734
01 NBM Z28- A4 w/3.23s, TSP Black Lid, Hooker Catback, Pacesetter Headers w/ORY, ASP Pulley, Ported Throttle Body, TSP Torq. v3(231/234) Camshaft, TCI 4400, PRC Stg 1 Heads
Texas Speed & Performance
www.texas-speed.com
(806) 866-0734
#20
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Originally Posted by KingSS
I dont' think GM High tech got thier flow numbers from Texas Speed's flow bench, so wouldnt that make 2 different flow benches flowing pretty close to the same numbers?