Ported Exhaust Manifolds, anybody in particular worth sending them to, or DIY
11-21-2006, 07:43 PM
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Ported Exhaust Manifolds, anybody in particular worth sending them to, or DIY I'm curious if there is anybody in particular that offers porting for manifolds or is known for doing them etc. Or is this strictly a do it yourself mod.
I know everybody / many just jump right to LT's, but I have no interest in that for a few if ever on this particular car. Been around don't need to go there. Just interested in PEM's for now please.
Or, is there a thread that I've missed in searching that is specific to LS1 manifolds.
I've got a second set already with the intentions of doing them myself, but just thought I'd check first.
Thanks much for any help you might be able to offer.
I know everybody / many just jump right to LT's, but I have no interest in that for a few if ever on this particular car. Been around don't need to go there. Just interested in PEM's for now please.
Or, is there a thread that I've missed in searching that is specific to LS1 manifolds.
I've got a second set already with the intentions of doing them myself, but just thought I'd check first.
Thanks much for any help you might be able to offer.
11-21-2006, 08:11 PM
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My engine builder friend has worked on the OE LS1 exhaust manifold and says that significant gains can be had just by porting them. However, I don't know how much porting he had to do, nor how much of a gain was actually made. You could send them to Extrude Hone, however that process only enlarges the existing opening, doesn't necessarily improve velocity in all the right places.
11-21-2006, 08:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Rob Hood
My engine builder friend has worked on the OE LS1 exhaust manifold and says that significant gains can be had just by porting them. However, I don't know how much porting he had to do, nor how much of a gain was actually made. You could send them to Extrude Hone, however that process only enlarges the existing opening, doesn't necessarily improve velocity in all the right places.
The extrude honeing is very expensive, so......for my budget at the moment I think thats out.
Who is your engine builder friend. Maybe I could contact him????
In looking at them and my existing knowledge of manifold porting in general I can see the obvious. Such as enlargeing the opening to larger than the port on the head. Raising the roof. Creating an anti reversion step on the floor. The usual blending and smoothing. Removeing and bumps or casting flash. Then on the outlet end opening that up as it gets close to the gasket surface. Then polishing as far in as posible.
On some old muscle car manifolds you'll have one or both manifolds actually dumping into smaller than even a 2 1/2" headpipe and sometimes you can adapt another headpipe flange with a bigger opening and bump the headpipe up as well as enlarge the manifold opening, sometimes..........
11-23-2006, 05:28 AM
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There is a sponsor at ls1gto.com called LS2 Port Works. Cory Harris runs the show and ports LS2 throttle bodies and LS2 intake manifolds for a reasonable price. I remember seeing a reply of his where he does mention that he has ported both the LS6 and LS1 intake manifolds with lackluster results. Lackluster meaning that he has yet to confirm any consistent horsepower gains from the porting. Therefore, he does not sell that particular service for the LS1 and LS6 intake manifolds.
P.S. LS2 Port Works is located in Washington state. This might be the same place that we're talking about.
P.S. LS2 Port Works is located in Washington state. This might be the same place that we're talking about.
Last edited by damon_Z; 11-23-2006 at 09:45 AM.
11-23-2006, 09:17 AM
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I would be really surprised if you saw significant gains. I mean ported stock manifolds are still not as good as tubular shorty manifolds and on most n/a applications people only see 3-5rwhp at most going to shorties.
So logically speaking one would have to assume porting stock manifolds must be worth less than 3rwhp.
So logically speaking one would have to assume porting stock manifolds must be worth less than 3rwhp.
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11-23-2006, 01:02 PM
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Originally Posted by 300bhp/ton
I would be really surprised if you saw significant gains. I mean ported stock manifolds are still not as good as tubular shorty manifolds and on most n/a applications people only see 3-5rwhp at most going to shorties.
So logically speaking one would have to assume porting stock manifolds must be worth less than 3rwhp.
So logically speaking one would have to assume porting stock manifolds must be worth less than 3rwhp.
Sounds like I need to do further research and talk to some shops that have ported these things.
I won't be running headers on this car anytime real soon so I'm just looking into maximizing the manifolds at this point. Maybe in a year or so when or if my car isn't a DD and if I get more serious with it then I'd install headers. But thats a big if at this point.
After doing some searching I come to realize that my current thoughts for the car mirror somewhat PatrickG's manifolds thinking some time back. I want the torque and HP, just ............with the manifolds still in place for a few. I'll be nailing down the cam with my limiting parameters, then looking into heads.
Anyhoo, thanks for the help/input guys and heres a link to a page that got my hopes up on the manifolds working a little better than one would normally think.
http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles...e_header_test/
Wish I could fit vette manifolds on this thing, damn.........
11-23-2006, 04:59 PM
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i don't understand this post. pacesetters are $375. you're going to spend $100+ on porting the stupid stock manifolds when you can have real, coated longtubes for $375? that's just a bad idea. it doesn't matter if they flow better, you won't see a benefit in SCAVENGING, which is what headers do that show the significant gains. people think longtubes give big gains because they flow better. no, they give big gains because they scavenge the exhaust effectively throughout the rpm range. don't waste your hard earned money on porting the worthless stock manifolds. you'll see bigger gains adding a lid than porting them.
11-23-2006, 06:54 PM
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This sounds funny, but I understand............the lack of understanding on other peoples part as to my interest in sticking with the manifolds.
I've started the topic in some other forums before for other vehicles and its always the same. Some just don't get it. So as always, I'll give a little explanation and this is simply based on my experiences and my current situation so.........likely..........I'm the only one who will really understand.
While I can completely appreciate the quality and craftsmanship in a nice set of headers, frankly the only thing I've ever liked about headers is the added performance they offer. They are a pain to install. Some vehicles ofcourse being much much more difficult than others. They tend to take away from ground clearance. They tend to make the engine noiseyer under the hood. They tend to radiate more heat under the hood. They tend to increase your chance for exhaust leaks and the frequency of having to deal with them. On some vehicles, they tend to make starter access a nightmare. I'm sure I forgot something else, but..........you get the idea. The usual complaints.
This is my first late model muscle. I've strictly had early 70's Mopars, and other non Chev GM's. I've had lots of experience with headers on my previous vehicles. I've had ones that were easy to live with, and I've had ones that you hear nightmare stories about.
I realize or atleast it appears to me from the little I've looked into it that the headers on the market for these cars is in general of a much higher quality than the vast majority of headers I've had in the past. However, I've read some threads with just enough mentioning of those same old "header issues" and with where I'm at right now with this car I wouldn't even consider opening that door. Thats just for now. In a year or so, maybe things will be different and this will be the car I decide to get real serious with. One simple thing that keeps headers from even being an option for me right now is my living situation and the fact that the car is a DD. I don't live somewhere currently where I could even honestly get away with it. Nor with it being my DD would I even consider making the attempt as I know how things pop up and what you thought would be a no big deal weekend project now becomes more than a weekend.
I am fully aware that not running headers leaves a lot on the table performance wise. This does go against my nature and past habits, but I'm older now and priorities are different. I'll find it somewhere else for now, until the time is right.
On another note on that, I've always been really impressed with cars that run harder than they look like they should have when you see the hood popped after a lap. I'm also really impressed with the F.A.S.T. racing guys being previously only interested in muscle car era cars. So, I can see that it is possible to have little fun without automatically having to put headers on something. Hell, some of those FAST guys are running pretty hard and looking almost Pure Stock. Really amazing, scary to, but impressive and amazing. FAST record last time I looked was like a mid 10.
So...........anyhoo................its always hard to understand, I understand .......but for now I'm not going to be putting headers on my car likely anytime soon. If / when it happens it'll be QTP's or Kooks and the whole combo will be aimed at 10.80's and we'll work on it from there once achieved.
Hey, LOL...........I do have MAC equal length shorties on my rollerised 357 windsor in my Bronco. I am currently actually planning on taking them back off. The fit is horrible, the heat under the hood is horrible and cooking everything near them. The sparkplug access is horrible. I'm going to run very very modified nodular manis on that before the vehicle becomes my DD again. To offset the headers coming back off I have a KB compressor that I'm hopeing will wake it back up, and another set of heads with more port work than the current ones on there. As well as quite a few other mods to be done before that rig can go back into DD service. Then, maybe just maybe.....it'll be serious play time with the Camaro.
So, if anyone else knows of any individual or a shop that you've heard has done any LS1 exhaust manifold porting I'd love to know about them. I'll investigate having somebody mod the spares I have and if its reasonable I'll ship these out. Otherwise, I'll just use basic common sense and port my own (likely).
Thanks guys, appreciate the input/help.
I've started the topic in some other forums before for other vehicles and its always the same. Some just don't get it. So as always, I'll give a little explanation and this is simply based on my experiences and my current situation so.........likely..........I'm the only one who will really understand.
While I can completely appreciate the quality and craftsmanship in a nice set of headers, frankly the only thing I've ever liked about headers is the added performance they offer. They are a pain to install. Some vehicles ofcourse being much much more difficult than others. They tend to take away from ground clearance. They tend to make the engine noiseyer under the hood. They tend to radiate more heat under the hood. They tend to increase your chance for exhaust leaks and the frequency of having to deal with them. On some vehicles, they tend to make starter access a nightmare. I'm sure I forgot something else, but..........you get the idea. The usual complaints.
This is my first late model muscle. I've strictly had early 70's Mopars, and other non Chev GM's. I've had lots of experience with headers on my previous vehicles. I've had ones that were easy to live with, and I've had ones that you hear nightmare stories about.
I realize or atleast it appears to me from the little I've looked into it that the headers on the market for these cars is in general of a much higher quality than the vast majority of headers I've had in the past. However, I've read some threads with just enough mentioning of those same old "header issues" and with where I'm at right now with this car I wouldn't even consider opening that door. Thats just for now. In a year or so, maybe things will be different and this will be the car I decide to get real serious with. One simple thing that keeps headers from even being an option for me right now is my living situation and the fact that the car is a DD. I don't live somewhere currently where I could even honestly get away with it. Nor with it being my DD would I even consider making the attempt as I know how things pop up and what you thought would be a no big deal weekend project now becomes more than a weekend.
I am fully aware that not running headers leaves a lot on the table performance wise. This does go against my nature and past habits, but I'm older now and priorities are different. I'll find it somewhere else for now, until the time is right.
On another note on that, I've always been really impressed with cars that run harder than they look like they should have when you see the hood popped after a lap. I'm also really impressed with the F.A.S.T. racing guys being previously only interested in muscle car era cars. So, I can see that it is possible to have little fun without automatically having to put headers on something. Hell, some of those FAST guys are running pretty hard and looking almost Pure Stock. Really amazing, scary to, but impressive and amazing. FAST record last time I looked was like a mid 10.
So...........anyhoo................its always hard to understand, I understand .......but for now I'm not going to be putting headers on my car likely anytime soon. If / when it happens it'll be QTP's or Kooks and the whole combo will be aimed at 10.80's and we'll work on it from there once achieved.
Hey, LOL...........I do have MAC equal length shorties on my rollerised 357 windsor in my Bronco. I am currently actually planning on taking them back off. The fit is horrible, the heat under the hood is horrible and cooking everything near them. The sparkplug access is horrible. I'm going to run very very modified nodular manis on that before the vehicle becomes my DD again. To offset the headers coming back off I have a KB compressor that I'm hopeing will wake it back up, and another set of heads with more port work than the current ones on there. As well as quite a few other mods to be done before that rig can go back into DD service. Then, maybe just maybe.....it'll be serious play time with the Camaro.
So, if anyone else knows of any individual or a shop that you've heard has done any LS1 exhaust manifold porting I'd love to know about them. I'll investigate having somebody mod the spares I have and if its reasonable I'll ship these out. Otherwise, I'll just use basic common sense and port my own (likely).
Thanks guys, appreciate the input/help.
11-23-2006, 07:37 PM
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You know, my mentioning the shorties I have on my Bronco just made me remember an interesting note that is partly why I'd think porting these LS1 manifolds would/should be more than noticeable.
When I first started running my Broncos 357 after rebuilding it I didn't stay right on top of retorqueing the header bolts after the first several heat cycles and within a short time I had a leak at the head on one side that required gasket replacement. Wouldn't you know it ofcourse it was the pass. side thats tight as hell. Drivers side would have been a walk in the park, but pass. side forget it. Pulled the front wheel, pulled the wheelwell liner to get access and yanked that biatch back off. Well, I have a habit of looking at parts when I have them in my hand and analyzing if theres anything I could do without delaying things to much, to make the part work better. Without much looking I could quickly see why I've read some bad rep about the MAC headers (not many options for a late model Bronco). Lots of excess weld on the head flange to the primarys, and the same but worse looking into the collector. So, before putting the pass side back on I decided to take some time and see if I couldn't clean things up from the standpoint of flow/performance. I proceeded to really do just common sense things and started with a C clamp to actually remove some of the over crimping they do for header bolt head clearance that knocks the volume down big time right at the entry into the header. I really opened em back up just even with that. Then I recognised that while the excess weld was only inturding in a few places that really I could open the entry into the flange up quite a bit. So I did so, and simply blended the weld into the tubeing. Once I was done on the inlet side into the header I held the replacement gasket back up to it and was quite surprissed at just how much my massaging had really opened things up. Then, long story shorter, I simply did the same thing in the collector. Even broke through some of MACs crappy weld quality in my blending process and decided add my own excess metal but in the right places to help smooth that transition from the primarys into the collector. The header uses a ball style collector. I measured the opening and looked at the witness marks from where the headpipe was sealing at and realized I could open that collector opening up just a tiny little bit probably without sealing issues. So, I did that to.
End result, very basic, common sense little bit of opening here and there and blending. OK, real end result..........I put just the one side back on and could immediately first drive first 5 minutes could tell she'd picked up some definet benefit from that. How much, I don't know. I'm not going to sit here and make some claims that are not realistic. I will say the truck is likey 5000 to 5500 lbs with a mild decent headed sbf plugged into a big *** E4OD trans with a transfer case since its a 4x4. 33" heavy Interco MT's and I haven't changed the gears from the stock 3.55's yet. So, my feeling is that as noticeable as the header mod to just the one side was with the vehicle being one that is a total tank with numerous items there absorbing power, well............I'm thinking it was more than just a few ponies as I just don't think a few would have been really noticeable on this kind of heavyweight.
Damn, remembering all that as I was typing just made me get even more amped up and confident that I can find some power in these manifolds. Theres gotta be some hidden in there. Crap, I'm grabbing a beer and going out to look at those paper weights for a few right now LOL.
Hope you guys are having a great Thanksgiving Day, and have a great and safe weekend. Seriously, peace guys
When I first started running my Broncos 357 after rebuilding it I didn't stay right on top of retorqueing the header bolts after the first several heat cycles and within a short time I had a leak at the head on one side that required gasket replacement. Wouldn't you know it ofcourse it was the pass. side thats tight as hell. Drivers side would have been a walk in the park, but pass. side forget it. Pulled the front wheel, pulled the wheelwell liner to get access and yanked that biatch back off. Well, I have a habit of looking at parts when I have them in my hand and analyzing if theres anything I could do without delaying things to much, to make the part work better. Without much looking I could quickly see why I've read some bad rep about the MAC headers (not many options for a late model Bronco). Lots of excess weld on the head flange to the primarys, and the same but worse looking into the collector. So, before putting the pass side back on I decided to take some time and see if I couldn't clean things up from the standpoint of flow/performance. I proceeded to really do just common sense things and started with a C clamp to actually remove some of the over crimping they do for header bolt head clearance that knocks the volume down big time right at the entry into the header. I really opened em back up just even with that. Then I recognised that while the excess weld was only inturding in a few places that really I could open the entry into the flange up quite a bit. So I did so, and simply blended the weld into the tubeing. Once I was done on the inlet side into the header I held the replacement gasket back up to it and was quite surprissed at just how much my massaging had really opened things up. Then, long story shorter, I simply did the same thing in the collector. Even broke through some of MACs crappy weld quality in my blending process and decided add my own excess metal but in the right places to help smooth that transition from the primarys into the collector. The header uses a ball style collector. I measured the opening and looked at the witness marks from where the headpipe was sealing at and realized I could open that collector opening up just a tiny little bit probably without sealing issues. So, I did that to.
End result, very basic, common sense little bit of opening here and there and blending. OK, real end result..........I put just the one side back on and could immediately first drive first 5 minutes could tell she'd picked up some definet benefit from that. How much, I don't know. I'm not going to sit here and make some claims that are not realistic. I will say the truck is likey 5000 to 5500 lbs with a mild decent headed sbf plugged into a big *** E4OD trans with a transfer case since its a 4x4. 33" heavy Interco MT's and I haven't changed the gears from the stock 3.55's yet. So, my feeling is that as noticeable as the header mod to just the one side was with the vehicle being one that is a total tank with numerous items there absorbing power, well............I'm thinking it was more than just a few ponies as I just don't think a few would have been really noticeable on this kind of heavyweight.
Damn, remembering all that as I was typing just made me get even more amped up and confident that I can find some power in these manifolds. Theres gotta be some hidden in there. Crap, I'm grabbing a beer and going out to look at those paper weights for a few right now LOL.
Hope you guys are having a great Thanksgiving Day, and have a great and safe weekend. Seriously, peace guys
11-23-2006, 07:43 PM
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Ofcourse............ there has to be a freakin PINKS marathon on to torture me, and make me completely question my previous manifold vs headers thoughts. Hopefully the marathon will be over by tomorrow and with working on other things I will be back to thinking realisticly for my current situation and priorities. Now, if I just turned this lill SS into a mostly racecar then I wouldn't be worried about any negative header issues 
11-23-2006, 09:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Cop Car
pinks is gay, i want to punch the guy in the mouth, he dosent know squat about cars
My buddy has an original 68 R/T Hemi Coronet 4spd car (goes 10.80's at 4000+lbs) that we thought would make it on tv as the PINKS crew likes to film at a local track. They seemed to be amazed at my friends car with how it launches while being so heavy & big. We never spotted the footage when they said it would air. So I tried to contact the host. The guy never would respond back. I tried quite a few times just asking if or when we might see my friends car. My friend picked up trying to contact the guy when I gave up. Useing his direct email. The guy never ever has responded back. I could understand he's likely a busy guy at this point, but ........I'm sure he had the time back when we were attempting to reach him.
11-23-2006, 09:57 PM
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I've never heard of anyone porting stock manifolds since the most commong reason for doing it is eprformance. The fact that you can get lts for so chepa and if your spending the time or money or both to por tthem, most people rather just go to lts. i respect the idea though, you should try it, go to a dyno get a baseline and then swap in some ported manifolds, i'm curious as to what would happen. Then you have to weigh in the benefit of all of that work and time, or just going with shorties. I guess its all relative, but you should try it, but i doubt you'll find much, if any info on it. Good luck.
11-23-2006, 10:18 PM
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Thanks, I'll certainly be giving more thought to it before spending any more time/money on the manifolds. Other than continued researching that is.
Really need to read header threads more in here, and touch base with the handful of shops that have experience with porting the irons.
Theres got to be some interest in it (or so I thought) because I've seen the manifolds sell alot, and people/buyers referencing putting their car back to stock. Well, I'm thinking some of these folks really mean putting it back to looking stock. Been a common thing with older muscle for a long time. Just not nearly as common as running headers.
Really need to read header threads more in here, and touch base with the handful of shops that have experience with porting the irons.
Theres got to be some interest in it (or so I thought) because I've seen the manifolds sell alot, and people/buyers referencing putting their car back to stock. Well, I'm thinking some of these folks really mean putting it back to looking stock. Been a common thing with older muscle for a long time. Just not nearly as common as running headers.
11-23-2006, 10:38 PM
#19
I thought a lot about this and have been unenthusiastic about headers for a lot of the same reasons you describe. But the reaction has been universally negative about porting the manifolds ... usually because of the scavenging effect described above. So I've pretty much made up my mind to get LT's. But these guys do a lot of manifold porting for their conversions and claim about 10 rwhp. You might want to talk to them: http://hinsonsupercars.com/index.htm
11-23-2006, 10:42 PM
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Originally Posted by TuffSS
Thanks, I'll certainly be giving more thought to it before spending any more time/money on the manifolds. Other than continued researching that is.
Really need to read header threads more in here, and touch base with the handful of shops that have experience with porting the irons.
Theres got to be some interest in it (or so I thought) because I've seen the manifolds sell alot, and people/buyers referencing putting their car back to stock. Well, I'm thinking some of these folks really mean putting it back to looking stock. Been a common thing with older muscle for a long time. Just not nearly as common as running headers.
Really need to read header threads more in here, and touch base with the handful of shops that have experience with porting the irons.
Theres got to be some interest in it (or so I thought) because I've seen the manifolds sell alot, and people/buyers referencing putting their car back to stock. Well, I'm thinking some of these folks really mean putting it back to looking stock. Been a common thing with older muscle for a long time. Just not nearly as common as running headers.
well a lot of people going back to stokc are probably selling their car. The car with stock manifolds is worth more because you can sell the headers separatly. mods decrease value. The one benefit from this would be the cali guys, they can do shorties, but shorties cost just as much as coat lts. If the price was right, i'm sure there would be some interest for some side jobs, but if your paying someone to port it, I don't think it would be worth it. most people pay to get stuff installed because of lack of time..ect. Doing headers costs 300-400. So if you goingg to spend that kind of cash, which would you rather get? 20 hp or 5hp. But on the flip side, if you could sell the port manifold for 100-150(300-400 install, total 550 for 5-10hp might be worth it to some people) with actual gains and the fact that its not loud and such, you could have a lil market for it. good luck.