'99 5.3L Into '96 S10 4x4 V6??
12-06-2006, 04:45 PM
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'99 5.3L Into '96 S10 4x4 V6?? My truck is a '96 S10 4x4 4.3L Automatic.
Will my current 4L60E bolt up to the Vortec 5300?
Can I use my current 4.3L Accessories on the 5300?
Will the stock 5300 oil pan fit?
Does anyone make headers / motormounts that will fit this swap, or will any OEM ones work?
Thanks in advance!
Need a swap for my truck ASAP!!!
Will my current 4L60E bolt up to the Vortec 5300?
Can I use my current 4.3L Accessories on the 5300?
Will the stock 5300 oil pan fit?
Does anyone make headers / motormounts that will fit this swap, or will any OEM ones work?
Thanks in advance!
Need a swap for my truck ASAP!!!
12-06-2006, 04:57 PM
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Not too sure about all of your questions, Im judging from what I know about the fullsize truck 4.3 to V8 swap.
Your transmission should bolt up, and you will need accessories from a 4.8/5.3/6.0. No clue on the oil pan. On fullsize 4.3 trucks, the stock motor mounts have to be removed, and V8 mounts used. Id say you are looking at some pretty extensive fab work. Have fun.
Your transmission should bolt up, and you will need accessories from a 4.8/5.3/6.0. No clue on the oil pan. On fullsize 4.3 trucks, the stock motor mounts have to be removed, and V8 mounts used. Id say you are looking at some pretty extensive fab work. Have fun.
12-06-2006, 05:00 PM
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96' 4l60E is different from the new 60E but it should still bolt on. If you plan on abusing it it will die, go th350 IMO
your accesories will most likly not fit (can't say for sure, never tired it) I think they would bolt directly onot a genI sbc though
stock oil pan should fit, but might hang too low
as for headers and motor mounts I am sure someone makes them, I have seen quite a few of theses converted, maybe someone else can chime in for links
I will be swaping the same engine into my bug in a couple weeks, can't wait!!
your accesories will most likly not fit (can't say for sure, never tired it) I think they would bolt directly onot a genI sbc though
stock oil pan should fit, but might hang too low
as for headers and motor mounts I am sure someone makes them, I have seen quite a few of theses converted, maybe someone else can chime in for links
I will be swaping the same engine into my bug in a couple weeks, can't wait!!
12-06-2006, 05:02 PM
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heres a longer thread, i havent read anything in it though. might check it out.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/conversions-swaps/424515-s10-ls1ers.html
https://ls1tech.com/forums/conversions-swaps/424515-s10-ls1ers.html
12-06-2006, 06:33 PM
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Check out the s-10 ls1er's thread farther down and make sure you have time. If you change the bellhousing pump and converter you can use the factory transmission. Or I am going to try it this weekend use a flywheel and spacer from a stock 6.0 with a 4l80e and open up the torque converter bolt holes a little and it should be fine. I am going to experiment this weekend. AS for all of the your transmission will die BS the guts in all 4l60e's are the same internally regardless of if it's 4.3,5.0,5.7,4.8,5.3,6.0 ho in a yukon. Tell it to someone who is not a mechanic and has not rebuilt them. The only difference in the ls tranny is the pump bellhousing and converter. Behind that they are all the same. The ls pumps have more vanes for more oil flow, and the newer ones have a heavier planetary set in the rear. For mounts look to current performance or jags that run. The headers will have to be custom made. Good luck and make sure you have plety of fabrication skills and about 5k to back up this project. It is not for the faint of heart. I am fixing to get started on my second one here PDQ.
12-07-2006, 09:03 AM
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I can tell you for a fact that your trans will bolt up to a 5.3L. You will need the GM spacer and bolts, and you will need to slot the holes on the dished 5.3L flexplate. You do NOT need to swap parts on the tranny itself. All that being said, the few people that I know that have used the S10 4L60E (including myself), have had the tranny die within 6 months. Take it for what its worth...
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12-07-2006, 10:48 AM
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Hey There....
I've done that swap....It is neither easy nor cheap.
Here's what I can say:
Accessories: Your 4.3l access won't work (at all). The 5.3L access can be made to work, however the Corvette accessories work better (leave more room up front). The truck access will require you to move the radiator forward, and you are likely to need pusher electric fans (in front of the radiator), which are less effective than puller type (behind the radiator).
Oilpan: Nothing stock has a chance, due to the front pumpkin. Turbotime has a custom oilpan (for like $550) or you can build your own (the option I chose). You will need to mount the oil filter on a remote bracket and run lines to the motor. Trying to run the filter in the stock location eats up sump space that you need for oil capacity. Don't bother trying to modify a stock pan, its less work to build a new one. If you do try to modify a stock pan, start with a brand new un-used pan. Cast aluminum is somewhat porous, which means a used pan ends up with oil in the aluminum, which makes it nearly impossible to get a good weld.
Mounts: Turbotime has a set of these that work ($100) or you can build your own. I ended up modifying the turbotime set to move the engine forward about 3/8" (engine / trans / transfer case fit better). The Turbotime mounts utilize F-body block mounts, so you'll need a set of those (truck mounts won't work).
Headers / manifolds: You're on your own there. Nobody makes anything (as of yet). I've got a set of f-body manifolds that I modified / hacked / chopped / welded /extended to make fit. Good luck there. Rest of the exhaust system is going to be custom too.
Transmission: I don't know what's different between the 4.3L trans and the LSx trans, but my opinion is that all 4L60E's are junk (pushed way too close to the limit). Hell, there are aluminum parts in the power path (drum splined to shaft, what a stupid idea). My stone stock 4.3L v6 (195hp) blew up the rear planetary. I didn't think there was any reason to put a series of ones in behind the 6.0L LQ4 (stock for now, won't be all that long....) so I went with the 4L80E.
Harness / PCM: There are a couple of vendors who can provide harnesses / pcms / modifications. I used Current Performance Wiring, but I expect that Speartech and a number of others can do the job.
Intake: The stock truck intake is close in 2 places. The EVAP solenoid on the top didn't look like it would clear. And the heater hoses ran out of the firewall and directly into the back of the intake (no room). I swapped to the LS6 intake to fix the problem. I'm not sure if the heater ports are in the same spot on your '96 as they were in my '99, but I expect if you have that problem you could figure out some way to re-locate / bend / modify the port location to clear the manifold. For me, it was easier to swap manifolds.
Make sure you have plenty of time and money available. I started in April '06, worked on it fairly regularly (was pretty well motivated) and finally finished in October '06. I'm sure I could have spent more time on it and gotten it done quicker, but after the first couple of weeks, you can't put off things like mowing the lawn, going on already planned vacations, etc. And I think I've got somewhere north of $7k in the swap. That does include a used 6.0L V8 ($1200), used 4L80E ($800 complete), rebuilt transfer case (custom NV146 / 246, $1000), harness / PCM changes ($1100) and a bunch of little stuff (like all the C5 accessories, fresh radiator, driveshaft shortening, hoses, etc.). I originally though I could do it for $5k, but obviously the price escalated (I didn't plan on changing Tcases originally).
Good luck with it. My advice: Do lots of research before you jump in, and make sure you've got the $$$ before you start.
'JustDreamin'
I've done that swap....It is neither easy nor cheap.
Here's what I can say:
Accessories: Your 4.3l access won't work (at all). The 5.3L access can be made to work, however the Corvette accessories work better (leave more room up front). The truck access will require you to move the radiator forward, and you are likely to need pusher electric fans (in front of the radiator), which are less effective than puller type (behind the radiator).
Oilpan: Nothing stock has a chance, due to the front pumpkin. Turbotime has a custom oilpan (for like $550) or you can build your own (the option I chose). You will need to mount the oil filter on a remote bracket and run lines to the motor. Trying to run the filter in the stock location eats up sump space that you need for oil capacity. Don't bother trying to modify a stock pan, its less work to build a new one. If you do try to modify a stock pan, start with a brand new un-used pan. Cast aluminum is somewhat porous, which means a used pan ends up with oil in the aluminum, which makes it nearly impossible to get a good weld.
Mounts: Turbotime has a set of these that work ($100) or you can build your own. I ended up modifying the turbotime set to move the engine forward about 3/8" (engine / trans / transfer case fit better). The Turbotime mounts utilize F-body block mounts, so you'll need a set of those (truck mounts won't work).
Headers / manifolds: You're on your own there. Nobody makes anything (as of yet). I've got a set of f-body manifolds that I modified / hacked / chopped / welded /extended to make fit. Good luck there. Rest of the exhaust system is going to be custom too.
Transmission: I don't know what's different between the 4.3L trans and the LSx trans, but my opinion is that all 4L60E's are junk (pushed way too close to the limit). Hell, there are aluminum parts in the power path (drum splined to shaft, what a stupid idea). My stone stock 4.3L v6 (195hp) blew up the rear planetary. I didn't think there was any reason to put a series of ones in behind the 6.0L LQ4 (stock for now, won't be all that long....) so I went with the 4L80E.
Harness / PCM: There are a couple of vendors who can provide harnesses / pcms / modifications. I used Current Performance Wiring, but I expect that Speartech and a number of others can do the job.
Intake: The stock truck intake is close in 2 places. The EVAP solenoid on the top didn't look like it would clear. And the heater hoses ran out of the firewall and directly into the back of the intake (no room). I swapped to the LS6 intake to fix the problem. I'm not sure if the heater ports are in the same spot on your '96 as they were in my '99, but I expect if you have that problem you could figure out some way to re-locate / bend / modify the port location to clear the manifold. For me, it was easier to swap manifolds.
Make sure you have plenty of time and money available. I started in April '06, worked on it fairly regularly (was pretty well motivated) and finally finished in October '06. I'm sure I could have spent more time on it and gotten it done quicker, but after the first couple of weeks, you can't put off things like mowing the lawn, going on already planned vacations, etc. And I think I've got somewhere north of $7k in the swap. That does include a used 6.0L V8 ($1200), used 4L80E ($800 complete), rebuilt transfer case (custom NV146 / 246, $1000), harness / PCM changes ($1100) and a bunch of little stuff (like all the C5 accessories, fresh radiator, driveshaft shortening, hoses, etc.). I originally though I could do it for $5k, but obviously the price escalated (I didn't plan on changing Tcases originally).
Good luck with it. My advice: Do lots of research before you jump in, and make sure you've got the $$$ before you start.
'JustDreamin'
12-07-2006, 02:05 PM
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A classic SBC is alot easier.....
You can use your 4.3 access.
You can buy mounts, oilpan, exhaust, etc.
You will have to work out emissions legality for your swap (if you've got tough emissions laws, you may be seriously limited as to your options).
If I had it to do over, I think I would do a 5.7L Vortec swap from a 1998 pickup. The limiting factor in those motors is the intake design. Instead of individual fuel injectors, they've got this common injector / spider design, which seriously limits horsepower (you can only get so much fuel, which limits total power). What I found after I was committed to the LSx motor is that there is a Mercruiser intake that fits the heads, and has individual injectors. Might have been a better solution.
'JustDreamin'
You can use your 4.3 access.
You can buy mounts, oilpan, exhaust, etc.
You will have to work out emissions legality for your swap (if you've got tough emissions laws, you may be seriously limited as to your options).
If I had it to do over, I think I would do a 5.7L Vortec swap from a 1998 pickup. The limiting factor in those motors is the intake design. Instead of individual fuel injectors, they've got this common injector / spider design, which seriously limits horsepower (you can only get so much fuel, which limits total power). What I found after I was committed to the LSx motor is that there is a Mercruiser intake that fits the heads, and has individual injectors. Might have been a better solution.
'JustDreamin'
12-08-2006, 03:22 PM
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Originally Posted by 01WS6/tamu
The vortec intake does use individual injectors but they are located in a common housing under the upper intake. But are not upgradeable due to their design for use in performance applications
The Mercruiser Vortec intake is similar in design, except that it is set up for individual injectors. Which means you can upgrade them to higher flow rates, allowing the system to make more horsepower (since you can't make power without adequate fuel). If I had it to do over again, I'd be looking seriously at it.
The LSx platform has an edge when it comes to factory performance. But you pay for it (increased cost over a SBC). Just compare simple things like camshafts. A new SBC camshaft can be had for $100 (or less). An aftermarket LSx camshaft will probably set you back $350 (or more). That's just the way it is, because the LSx hasn't been around since 1955. Prices of LSx stuff are falling, but for now there's a pretty significant difference between the LSx and the SBC.
'JustDreamin'
12-09-2006, 03:23 PM
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I spoke with jared at currentperformance and he was VERY helpful to me. He informed me that I would also save about 500 bucks on the wiring if I went with the vortec 5.7 cause he can just mod my stock harness to run that engine.
i am very interested in going the vortec 5.7 because of that, and all the reasons you guys are mentioning - such as its easy and inexpensive to get the mounts, and I think they even make headers that will fit with my 4x4.
i am very familiar with the injection system on it, because my 4.3 is a 96 and it runs the same setup. i am not to worried about the injection system because i actually own a business that builds custom fuel injection systems and intake manifolds and what not - just not for this type of vehicle. but surely I will be able to just take the mercruising intake and setup my own fuel injection setup, I am also very familiar with wiring engine management systems and all that, as i used to own a performance shop building street/strip cars.
the thing is with this truck is that its my daily driver and these engines are not what i have experience with, and i need to have a pretty quick start-to-finish on this project just to get the truck back on the road from when i take it apart because its my daily driver, and the weather is very poor here now so i cannot drive my race car to work even for a few days. so i may even pickup a core harness to send out and get mod'd before i even pull mine out, and also get a core trans to send to FLP to get done up (i spoke with them twice on this project and they were also extremely helpful).
i found a vortec 5.7L out of a 2001 full size fan in a local yard for $700..... that is pretty hard to decline. I think I should go pick it up and start researching a cam and maybe some rockers or something... I am just worried about having iron heads, that sounds pretty limiting to me, I have never tried to make performance out of a car with iron heads.
I definatly would want change out for some nice aluminum heads this spring while I can drive my other car for a while.
basically i am about ready to do this, i am just looking to find out if my truck with the 5.7 vortec and a FLP built 4L60E will even be remotely quick at all, enough that I am at least happy that I did the swap, if I did all that and its still just a 15-16 second truck I would wish that I just took the time and money and went LSX.
Anyhow, sorry for the very long post, I am sort of rambling as I am still have issues pulling the trigger on this.
i am very interested in going the vortec 5.7 because of that, and all the reasons you guys are mentioning - such as its easy and inexpensive to get the mounts, and I think they even make headers that will fit with my 4x4.
i am very familiar with the injection system on it, because my 4.3 is a 96 and it runs the same setup. i am not to worried about the injection system because i actually own a business that builds custom fuel injection systems and intake manifolds and what not - just not for this type of vehicle. but surely I will be able to just take the mercruising intake and setup my own fuel injection setup, I am also very familiar with wiring engine management systems and all that, as i used to own a performance shop building street/strip cars.
the thing is with this truck is that its my daily driver and these engines are not what i have experience with, and i need to have a pretty quick start-to-finish on this project just to get the truck back on the road from when i take it apart because its my daily driver, and the weather is very poor here now so i cannot drive my race car to work even for a few days. so i may even pickup a core harness to send out and get mod'd before i even pull mine out, and also get a core trans to send to FLP to get done up (i spoke with them twice on this project and they were also extremely helpful).
i found a vortec 5.7L out of a 2001 full size fan in a local yard for $700..... that is pretty hard to decline. I think I should go pick it up and start researching a cam and maybe some rockers or something... I am just worried about having iron heads, that sounds pretty limiting to me, I have never tried to make performance out of a car with iron heads.
I definatly would want change out for some nice aluminum heads this spring while I can drive my other car for a while.
basically i am about ready to do this, i am just looking to find out if my truck with the 5.7 vortec and a FLP built 4L60E will even be remotely quick at all, enough that I am at least happy that I did the swap, if I did all that and its still just a 15-16 second truck I would wish that I just took the time and money and went LSX.
Anyhow, sorry for the very long post, I am sort of rambling as I am still have issues pulling the trigger on this.
Last edited by phunk; 12-09-2006 at 04:06 PM.
12-09-2006, 06:51 PM
#14
No need to pay someone else to modify the harness for you. Especially on one that easy. All you have to do is change the main injector plug on top of the intake and run four more wires to the pcm to control the number 8 and 7 injector. Just get a pin out for the 96' 350 pcm and put the 7 and 8 wires where they go and you are finished. You then will have to A reflash your pcm for a 96 350 fullsize pickup. If you start getting into the newer truck computers they are the same but they moved a few of the pins around on certain functions to add to your frsutration. You will also have to delete the passlock on any 97' or newer computer bc it will not start. The best thing you can do is have your stock pcm custom tuned to avoid the issues of tinkering with a in shop reflash. When they tune it it will take care of everything. On the 96 trucks the EVAP on the s series used an intank pressure sensor that the fullsize trucks did not use, so unless you have a custom tune you will have MIL problems and false evap codes. All of these little quirks can be addressed when your tuner tunes it. Just do not bother with these handheld POS's. Take it to someone who knows their stuff.
12-10-2006, 07:35 AM
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The Vortec heads are really good castings. They're pretty much the best GM SBC castings ever. They've even got the legendary fuelie heads covered. They're better than the LT1 castings, basically on par with the LT4 castings, but for a conventional flow cooling system (unlike the LT1 & 4 which are reverse cool).
You should be able to make anywhere between 350 & 500 hp on a Vortec headed 5.7, depending upon how well you piece together the rest of the setup (and what you do with the intake to supply enough fuel for that level of motor, since the stock intake starts running out of fuel around 350hp, hence the mercruiser suggestion). I would suggest looking for some of the magazine buildups, since they actually provide some useful information.
Also, YOU need to figure out what level of emissions compliance you need to meet (varies by state, Cali is about the worst). You'd hate to build a truck and then have the Emissions ****'s make you take it back apart (some states they can keep you from renewing plates).
I would be very concerned about not having another car during this swap. I would strongly suggest that you need to have something lined up as an alternate. Not having a car will keep you very motivated, but there is always something that pops up that Summit is the only one who has it in stock (and they're 2 days away by UPS). The racecar doesn't sound like adequate transportation. Surely there is somebody you can beg or borrow a car from. Or a shop truck? Or line up a cheap rental car as a backup? Sorry, it just always seems that when I desperately need something to run so that I can drive it to work the following day that I either make mistakes (because of rushing) or don't have a part that I need (that I didn't realize I needed until 15 minutes after Autozone closed). Just my experience. Which is probably why I've got 5 cars and there are only 2 drivers (wife and I).
I do think you're on the right track, making detailed plans as to what to use, who will do what work, etc. I'd just suggest you finish the plans (to the best of your ability) and get all the parts you need together prior to taking the truck apart.
'JustDreamin'
You should be able to make anywhere between 350 & 500 hp on a Vortec headed 5.7, depending upon how well you piece together the rest of the setup (and what you do with the intake to supply enough fuel for that level of motor, since the stock intake starts running out of fuel around 350hp, hence the mercruiser suggestion). I would suggest looking for some of the magazine buildups, since they actually provide some useful information.
Also, YOU need to figure out what level of emissions compliance you need to meet (varies by state, Cali is about the worst). You'd hate to build a truck and then have the Emissions ****'s make you take it back apart (some states they can keep you from renewing plates).
I would be very concerned about not having another car during this swap. I would strongly suggest that you need to have something lined up as an alternate. Not having a car will keep you very motivated, but there is always something that pops up that Summit is the only one who has it in stock (and they're 2 days away by UPS). The racecar doesn't sound like adequate transportation. Surely there is somebody you can beg or borrow a car from. Or a shop truck? Or line up a cheap rental car as a backup? Sorry, it just always seems that when I desperately need something to run so that I can drive it to work the following day that I either make mistakes (because of rushing) or don't have a part that I need (that I didn't realize I needed until 15 minutes after Autozone closed). Just my experience. Which is probably why I've got 5 cars and there are only 2 drivers (wife and I).
I do think you're on the right track, making detailed plans as to what to use, who will do what work, etc. I'd just suggest you finish the plans (to the best of your ability) and get all the parts you need together prior to taking the truck apart.
'JustDreamin'
12-10-2006, 05:21 PM
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I am looking at doing a similar swap....except my 5.3 is an 01. my truck is a little different than most doing this swap. I dont have the factory frame up front (tube frame), I dont have ABS, A/C, heat or cruise control. I dont have the stock axles either, I am running 1 ton running gear, so that stuff isnt going to give me any problems. I just need to bolt in the motor and do the wiring stuff.....
Brian
Brian
