Those with a Moroso vaccum pump...come inside
12-08-2006, 09:56 AM
#1
Those with a Moroso vaccum pump...come inside Are you guys having issues with it pulling a lot of oil. After one or two dyno passes I drain my catch can. About 1/2 a quart of oil drains out. I know it will pull some oil but this is crazy. We do have a baffle in the valve cover where it pulls from. How do you guys have you system plumbed? To the valve cover or another area? Are you having the same issues?
Here is where I have it plumbed.
Here is where I have it plumbed.
Last edited by Tony Shepherd; 12-08-2006 at 10:03 AM.
12-08-2006, 10:47 AM
#5
Originally Posted by JS
U need to screw this into the pump and run 2 shims.....
This goes on the suck side,valve cover to this into the pump out of the pump and to the puke tank...
Where can I get that and is it -12? Is that a relief valve on the side of it?
12-08-2006, 11:00 AM
#6
U can get it from moroso and yes u win a cookie,its number 12 
U then remove a few shims under the relief valve until u have 2 in there and your done.It will regulate up to about 14in. and then let the excess air escape,U MUST have one of these releif valves on the setup....
www.moroso.com
U then remove a few shims under the relief valve until u have 2 in there and your done.It will regulate up to about 14in. and then let the excess air escape,U MUST have one of these releif valves on the setup....www.moroso.com
12-08-2006, 11:05 AM
#7
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Yeah, that be a vacuum relief side from the looks of it. Alot of the local guys around here just put the vacuum relief in another hole in the valve cover or on the opposite valve cover.
Putting it on the pump inlet though is an interesting idea. That would limit the amount the pump actually pulls. Rather than having the relief valve on the valve cover to limit the measured crankcase vacuum(in which case the suction through the hose would not change.) Limiting the amount of actual suction through the hose should limit the amount of oil that gets picked up.
Pretty cool, glad someone turned me onto this idea before I started spending money on a vacuum pump setup. Sounds like it would really help with your issue Tony.
Putting it on the pump inlet though is an interesting idea. That would limit the amount the pump actually pulls. Rather than having the relief valve on the valve cover to limit the measured crankcase vacuum(in which case the suction through the hose would not change.) Limiting the amount of actual suction through the hose should limit the amount of oil that gets picked up.
Pretty cool, glad someone turned me onto this idea before I started spending money on a vacuum pump setup. Sounds like it would really help with your issue Tony.
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12-08-2006, 11:10 AM
#8
I've been putting this off for some time just because info on the subject for LT based setups seems rare & I know my setup needs much better internal breathing than it currently has. Any chance any of you would be willing to share some info, tips, etc? Not wanting to mirror anyones build or anything like that just hard to find info on this.
* Want some fabricated tall perimeter valve covers (AFR 210s) (my simple Jegs VC's are fine but I've wanted some custom fabbed for some time now that would work with AN fittings for a vacuum setup)
* Part #'s, etc for a full Morroso vacuum setup
* Some tips on where & how to locate, etc.
Pic from July I think, Holley TB is gone, AZM mono now and LTCC is no longer, should have plenty of room for a catchcan, etc with the ABS being removed, etc. Like I said open for suggestions.
* Want some fabricated tall perimeter valve covers (AFR 210s) (my simple Jegs VC's are fine but I've wanted some custom fabbed for some time now that would work with AN fittings for a vacuum setup)
* Part #'s, etc for a full Morroso vacuum setup
* Some tips on where & how to locate, etc.
Pic from July I think, Holley TB is gone, AZM mono now and LTCC is no longer, should have plenty of room for a catchcan, etc with the ABS being removed, etc. Like I said open for suggestions.
Last edited by BRETTINATOR; 12-08-2006 at 11:20 AM.
12-08-2006, 11:14 AM
#9
Here's how we did our LT1,I drilled and tapped a Moroso Screw in oil cap and threaded the releif into it..I only have that hole and the inlet bung on the one side of the valve cover,it looks real clean..Then I just set the relief to 2 shims and went out on the HWY and tested it and saw 14in of vacuum at 7200..
It works perfectly,if it see's higher than 14in it lets the relief open to the atmosphere.....Very little collects in the puke tank but check it now and again..
It works perfectly,if it see's higher than 14in it lets the relief open to the atmosphere.....Very little collects in the puke tank but check it now and again..
Last edited by JS; 12-08-2006 at 12:19 PM.
12-08-2006, 12:20 PM
#11
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Tony, pass that part # list over this way as well please.
Brettinator- Have any more pics and info of the way you relocated the altenator? It seems yours is very similar to the way I've been tinkering with setting it up. Getting the altenator to fit where the A/C compressor was, adding idler pulley to old alt. location, etc.
Brettinator- Have any more pics and info of the way you relocated the altenator? It seems yours is very similar to the way I've been tinkering with setting it up. Getting the altenator to fit where the A/C compressor was, adding idler pulley to old alt. location, etc.
12-08-2006, 01:22 PM
#13
Originally Posted by Fire67
Tony, pass that part # list over this way as well please.
Brettinator - Have any more pics and info of the way you relocated the altenator? It seems yours is very similar to the way I've been tinkering with setting it up. Getting the altenator to fit where the A/C compressor was, adding idler pulley to old alt. location, etc.
Brettinator - Have any more pics and info of the way you relocated the altenator? It seems yours is very similar to the way I've been tinkering with setting it up. Getting the altenator to fit where the A/C compressor was, adding idler pulley to old alt. location, etc.
Tony - Thanks for the pics and appreciate the parts list when you get around to it, thanks alot man.
12-08-2006, 01:38 PM
#14
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Vacuum Pump Info Some useful information on Vacuum pmp. useage from Uratchko Racing Engines.
The success level of a vacuum pump is all relative to the design of the ring package, health of the engine, application and how well the engine is sealed(to the outside world ie... gaskets/seals)
The big gains will be if you take advantage of the vacuum pumps ability by utilizing a very low tension ring package. In this case, the 30-40 horsepower claims out there, may be based on the fact that the ring package used, is just not capable of working well without a vacuum pump. They dyno it no pump, it's a sloppy mess in terms of ring seal, and then they stick the pump on it and it picks up 40 horsepower becuase now the rings are sealed. That's probably a more realistic viewpoint for the big hp claim folks.
But there is some hp in it regardless of the ring package, and with a nitrous engine it really improves oil control.
But that is a double edged sword. Now you have a condition where oil is being pulled from the cylinder, and that includes the pins. If you have a vacuum pump I always tell my guys to keep it unhooked unless you're making a pass... let the oil get up into the pins, let it soak the cylinders good... this has improved the pin bore wear DRAMATICALLY upon teardown, versus just leaving it connected all the time.
If this is a street deal, then put a regulator on it and keep the vacuum at just around a couple inchs.... that will be alright for street duty, and then when you get to the track crank the vacuum up to where you prefer to have it.
So to answer the question, do I recommend one? Always, but keep in mind what I'm suggesting for both a track car and street car.
Chris Uratchko
The success level of a vacuum pump is all relative to the design of the ring package, health of the engine, application and how well the engine is sealed(to the outside world ie... gaskets/seals)
The big gains will be if you take advantage of the vacuum pumps ability by utilizing a very low tension ring package. In this case, the 30-40 horsepower claims out there, may be based on the fact that the ring package used, is just not capable of working well without a vacuum pump. They dyno it no pump, it's a sloppy mess in terms of ring seal, and then they stick the pump on it and it picks up 40 horsepower becuase now the rings are sealed. That's probably a more realistic viewpoint for the big hp claim folks.
But there is some hp in it regardless of the ring package, and with a nitrous engine it really improves oil control.
But that is a double edged sword. Now you have a condition where oil is being pulled from the cylinder, and that includes the pins. If you have a vacuum pump I always tell my guys to keep it unhooked unless you're making a pass... let the oil get up into the pins, let it soak the cylinders good... this has improved the pin bore wear DRAMATICALLY upon teardown, versus just leaving it connected all the time.
If this is a street deal, then put a regulator on it and keep the vacuum at just around a couple inchs.... that will be alright for street duty, and then when you get to the track crank the vacuum up to where you prefer to have it.
So to answer the question, do I recommend one? Always, but keep in mind what I'm suggesting for both a track car and street car.
Chris Uratchko
12-08-2006, 01:47 PM
#15
Originally Posted by Tonyss1
Some useful information on Vacuum pmp. useage from Uratchko Racing Engines.
The success level of a vacuum pump is all relative to the design of the ring package, health of the engine, application and how well the engine is sealed(to the outside world ie... gaskets/seals)
The big gains will be if you take advantage of the vacuum pumps ability by utilizing a very low tension ring package. In this case, the 30-40 horsepower claims out there, may be based on the fact that the ring package used, is just not capable of working well without a vacuum pump. They dyno it no pump, it's a sloppy mess in terms of ring seal, and then they stick the pump on it and it picks up 40 horsepower becuase now the rings are sealed. That's probably a more realistic viewpoint for the big hp claim folks.
But there is some hp in it regardless of the ring package, and with a nitrous engine it really improves oil control.
But that is a double edged sword. Now you have a condition where oil is being pulled from the cylinder, and that includes the pins. If you have a vacuum pump I always tell my guys to keep it unhooked unless you're making a pass... let the oil get up into the pins, let it soak the cylinders good... this has improved the pin bore wear DRAMATICALLY upon teardown, versus just leaving it connected all the time.
If this is a street deal, then put a regulator on it and keep the vacuum at just around a couple inchs.... that will be alright for street duty, and then when you get to the track crank the vacuum up to where you prefer to have it.
So to answer the question, do I recommend one? Always, but keep in mind what I'm suggesting for both a track car and street car.
Chris Uratchko
The success level of a vacuum pump is all relative to the design of the ring package, health of the engine, application and how well the engine is sealed(to the outside world ie... gaskets/seals)
The big gains will be if you take advantage of the vacuum pumps ability by utilizing a very low tension ring package. In this case, the 30-40 horsepower claims out there, may be based on the fact that the ring package used, is just not capable of working well without a vacuum pump. They dyno it no pump, it's a sloppy mess in terms of ring seal, and then they stick the pump on it and it picks up 40 horsepower becuase now the rings are sealed. That's probably a more realistic viewpoint for the big hp claim folks.
But there is some hp in it regardless of the ring package, and with a nitrous engine it really improves oil control.
But that is a double edged sword. Now you have a condition where oil is being pulled from the cylinder, and that includes the pins. If you have a vacuum pump I always tell my guys to keep it unhooked unless you're making a pass... let the oil get up into the pins, let it soak the cylinders good... this has improved the pin bore wear DRAMATICALLY upon teardown, versus just leaving it connected all the time.
If this is a street deal, then put a regulator on it and keep the vacuum at just around a couple inchs.... that will be alright for street duty, and then when you get to the track crank the vacuum up to where you prefer to have it.
So to answer the question, do I recommend one? Always, but keep in mind what I'm suggesting for both a track car and street car.
Chris Uratchko
Last edited by Tony Shepherd; 12-08-2006 at 01:57 PM.
12-08-2006, 01:48 PM
#16
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Thats very nice tony, whish I had all that room in front of my motor... The procharger tends to complicate things in that area 
Do you know if its possible to run a vacuum pump off the serpentine belt? I know I can't fit a cog drive up front with that 12-rib blower pulley already being there.
Do you know if its possible to run a vacuum pump off the serpentine belt? I know I can't fit a cog drive up front with that 12-rib blower pulley already being there.
12-08-2006, 01:58 PM
#17
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Vaccum pumps
Originally Posted by Tony Shepherd
Good info. But the oil is being pulled from under the valve cover not the cylinders. It is sucking direct oil from the splash of the oiled rockers. My engine does not smoke so I know oil is not getting past the rings. I dont think it will be pulling oil from the pins. As long as you keep the vacuum to less than 18 in..........then you should be ok.
12-08-2006, 02:01 PM
#18
Originally Posted by Fire67
Thats very nice tony, whish I had all that room in front of my motor... The procharger tends to complicate things in that area
Do you know if its possible to run a vacuum pump off the serpentine belt? I know I can't fit a cog drive up front with that 12-rib blower pulley already being there.
Do you know if its possible to run a vacuum pump off the serpentine belt? I know I can't fit a cog drive up front with that 12-rib blower pulley already being there.
I tried to figure out a serpentine setup first. Had no luck so I went with the cog.
12-08-2006, 02:16 PM
#20
Originally Posted by JS
18in is too high for a street driven car,it will kill the pins too fast..We see under 3in under part throttle cruise with the 2 shims now and just under 14in under wot at 7200,thats as high as u should go on a street driven car....
I agree. I was talking about at WOT. Mine is at 16in right now at 8000 rpms. This relief valve will help. Right now it is only around 2-3in at part throttle.
I know the magic number for a race motor is 18in.