V8 Supra Builder

iTrader: (37)

I'm starting this thread using the black hole* theory in an attempt to pull all of the LS1>2JZ and 2JZ>LS1 posts from another thread.

Post away.

*A black hole is an object with a gravitational field so powerful that even electromagnetic radiation (such as light) cannot escape its pull. Roughly translated, certain engine swap threads exert a gravitational field so strong that few are able to resist debating an issue that the thread starter never intended to be debated.

Da Swami

iTrader: (6)

lol

Engine codes are neat things to make fun of.

lt4malibu

iTrader: (39)

67rsss

iTrader: (4)

What is a 2JZ?

pearceleather

It's right there under the hood!

That pic always makes me laugh.

flynbyu82

From Wikipedia...

The 2JZ-GTE was developed to power the fourth generation of the Supra sports car. It was based on the 2JZ-GE, but differed in its use of sequential twin turbochargers and the use of an intercooler.The 2JZ-GTE was one of the few Japanese 3-liter sports car engines on both the Japanese domestic and export markets during the '90s, sharing the title with Nissan's VG30DETT V6 and Mitsubishi's 6G72 V6.

The use of sequential twin CT12B turbochargers raised its power output from a mere 166 kW (225 hp DIN) to the market maximum of 206 kW (280 hp DIN) at 5600 rpm, limited by Japan's "Gentlemen's Agreement" between Japanese automakers, although real output and torque figures were well in excess of 300 hp (over 220 kW).

In the North American and European market, power was raised to 239 kW (320 hp SAE)/243kW (330hp [DIN]) at the same engine speed of 5600 rpm. The export version of the 2JZ-GTE achieved its higher power output due to different turbochargers (stainless steel for export models, ceramic for Japanese models), camshafts, and larger injectors (550 cc/min for export markets, 440 cc/min for Japanese models). Because the primary mechanical differences between the export (CT12B) and Japanese (CT20A) model turbines are the size and material of the exhaust-side shaft (stainless steel exhaust-side shaft for export models vs ceramic shaft for JDM models), one can replace the JDM's ceramic shaft with the steel variant found in export model. In tuning groups, in spite of the lack of actuators for both turbines, the factory turbochargers are often retained after mild engine modification due to the highly durable housings and use of stainless steel for the impeller and turbo fins in the export models. In light of the above as well as the due to the use of forged internals throughout the engine, the 2JZ-GTE is well-known for requiring no internal modification to cope with the stress associated with high-boosting turbines, and has actually achieved 1000HP at the flywheel with bone stock internals.

This engine is considered the main rival of Nissan's RB26DETT, and is very popular with the tuner niche for its upgrade flexibility and reliability that is supported very strongly by the aftermarket scene.

Applications:

1993-2002 (North American market only saw until 1998) Toyota Supra MkIV
Toyota Aristo

RussStang

I am a huge fan of both engines, but I am inclined to believe that if you are looking for big power numbers, the LSx engines are going to be cheaper. It isn't too hard to find an iron block LS type engine and bolt a good set of heads to it, and relatively speaking it isn't that expensive either. For basic mods the 2JZ probably takes the win. Usually it takes a mild to modert heads/cams/full bolt on car to run with a BPU Supra, although usually the BPU guys are running on race gas to get their better numbers, which can be a pain in the ***.

BLWN1

iTrader: (6)

Sotck for stock, 2jz will hold more power, either form from what I have been researching. I have a 6.0 going into a malibu and thinking about selling it all for a sc300..... I like both, but the 2jz bug has hit me, and not many in my area have fooled with them..... a 2jz fox coupe would rock out..........

ChrisUlrich

If you're looking for peak numbers... then yea the 2JZ is good for this arguement. But if you want a race engine (Like most Supra guys want) then you want a LSx block. To me it's pretty obvious... it is equally as strong (When built... not stock) and the power under the curve in a LSx is undeniably better.

GTOpowered240sx

iTrader: (1)

2JZ is a great engine for its size, but overrated. I hope you're a fast shifter. With a 6800 rpm redline and a big turbo you dont have much room to play.

Other than the stock bottom being very strong, it has no other advantages over an LSX. And without the turbo (s), it would be a joke.

Wonder what a single turbo LS1 would do to a single turbo 2JZ?

here, and watch for the bus lengths.
Single turbo WS6 (13psi) vs. Single turbo 2JZ (21 psi and meth)

And before one of the supra guys gets all bent out of shape like they did when I posted my opinion in the other thread, RELAX. Its just my opinion, and Im entitled to it. Now let the flaming begin

cnichols

iTrader: (23)

Just like on any car, the redline is not set in stone. Sure, that might be it from the factory, but those guys rev well beyond that with slight modifications.

http://www.turbo6.net/media/.8.18.06...50%20incar.wmv

http://www.turbo6.net

Watch this vid of my buddy's SC300 and you see that he spends all of maybe 1-2 seconds under 6800 rpms on the way to his 9.4 sec 1/4 mile pass.

This thread is stupid...both are kick *** engines, it's just whatever floats your boat. There is no clear winner as each has their advantages and both are capable of huge power numbers.

Jake the SSnake

iTrader: (11)

Thats the funniest thing i've seen in a while,unfortunately none of my friends would understand it so I cant share it

slow

iTrader: (7)

I would not pull a running 2JZ out of a MKIV supra, however, I would choose to put a LSx motor into just about anything.

Ryan

GTOpowered240sx

iTrader: (1)

Sweet vid and sweet car. And true, the redline is not set in stone, but a stock 2JZ head isnt good for much more. On a fully built 2JZ, thats not a problem, but thats true for any motor.

The ones that think they can slap a huge turbo on a stock 2JZ will have this issue though, and others.

Dont get me wrong, I think the 2JZ is a great motor, but there are a lot of misconceptions about it. None of this would have gotten blown out of porportion if one of the supra guys hadnt bash my opinion with his bad info.

young92rsowner

thats how it was w/ the ZR-1 Corvette. i was reading that it can reach over 7200rpms, but they limit it down to about 6500ish i dont remember but the reason they limit cuz the accessories would die a painfully short life. wat a great engine, LT-5 DOHC, a true beast

UCABlackChevy

iTrader: (10)

gnx7

iTrader: (28)

A 2JZ with mods can spin to 9K RPM+. They are both different engines.... however the overhead cam design provides great valvetrain stability.

mmdb

iTrader: (1)

In the same context, I had a dilemma between choosing an LS1 or a 2jz for my 240sx. The reason I went with LS1 was simple because it was lighter. A 2jz has an iron block which would hinder performance on the road course, more than an LS1. And an LS1 has more power lower in the power band which is easier when pulling out of a corner and also for daily driving.

2JZ would be great to run on the highway, but ultimately for the track it's might not be as desirable. For example, the JGTC (Japanese Gran Touring Circuit) Supras run 4 cylinders instead of the six because the six cylinders are too heavy. Also, take a look at a previous supra that's ran here in the states (G-Tech sponsored supra). I don't recall the racing league it ran in, but they didn't place up there due to the nature of running a turbo (lag) and weight. I've been told this information by the driver himself during an LA Autoshow event.

bboyferal

iTrader: (9)

^ The Supra is a lackluster road race car... Compared to Vettes, Vipers, etc.

Running in the JGTC against other Japanese cars is a fun event to watch, but it does not test the car's mettle in the world arena (even that four cylinder) of road racing. Production blocks like the LSx series, on the other hand, have proven themselves on world circuits, viz. Le Mans and so on.

Why? Due to those reasons you just mentioned.

I believe that the 2JZ has ENORMOUS potential in our local hobby/sanctioned drag races here in the U.S. more than it does in road racing (Um, Titan Motorsports? BADASS!). Running in the JGTC, for me, does not impress me for a Japanese car (they ONLY RUN AGAINST other Japanese low displacement cars that might have lag too etc.) AT ALL.

Making power is not all a block should do for road racing. You have weigh in its powerband and weight and so on.

In drag racing, powerband doesn't matter DICK... Because you're NOT GONNA BE out of your powerband unless you're not geared right or don't know how to drag race.

superlsx

geeze i think it was more of a pissing match over on my thread. that last post over on my put me over the edge. who in there right mind would spend 8 to 10g's on a single turbo uprade and nto touch the bottom end. i will bet that thing will not last 500 miles. give me 10g's and what 2jz???? you supra boys are to sesintive. "look i just got back from the dyno and put down 1200 whp. but on the way home i was walked on by a 500 whp ws6!!!
i went to streetfire and grabed the first supra dyno i could find enjoy that 6500 power curve...
<a href="http://videos.streetfire.net/video/800a36a8-3547-420b-8310-47f8a4526293.htm" target="_blank"><img src="http://thumbs.vidiac.com/800a36a8-3547-420b-8310-47f8a4526293.jpg" width="115" height="86"></a><br><a href="http://videos.streetfire.net/video/800a36a8-3547-420b-8310-47f8a4526293.htm" target="_blank">Click to see Video</a> sorry ill repost the vid