Budget calls for a ARE 393 all bore, help me select a cam:
12-09-2002, 01:02 PM
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Budget calls for a ARE 393 all bore, help me select a cam: ..that will still allow me to have some steetability, such as, decent idle, and no surging. Other than that, I want the most power I can get. I'm thinking a 114 LS.
Order is already in. Looks like:
ARE All Bore
4.100 B x 3.72 S = 393
11.5 compression
Stock crank, ofset ground, & treated
ASP head studs (custom order)
ARE custom 7/16 main studs ("labour" included <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" /> )
O-ring block & copper gaskets
Still have to get SVO 36 lb ers, and upgrade fuel pump. I'll get the motor tuned in, and then plan to spray at least 200, maybe 300 what ya think?
Should be a nice ride, ehh.
Keep in mind when selecting cam, that I drive the car alot. If it isn't raining or snowing, I'm out there. So it must have steet maners. I dont need a big lope to let everyone know what I have. I would rather have a smooth idle with minimal lope. Still would like some easy 10's on just motor.
Order is already in. Looks like:
ARE All Bore
4.100 B x 3.72 S = 393
11.5 compression
Stock crank, ofset ground, & treated
ASP head studs (custom order)
ARE custom 7/16 main studs ("labour" included <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" /> )
O-ring block & copper gaskets
Still have to get SVO 36 lb ers, and upgrade fuel pump. I'll get the motor tuned in, and then plan to spray at least 200, maybe 300 what ya think?
Should be a nice ride, ehh.
Keep in mind when selecting cam, that I drive the car alot. If it isn't raining or snowing, I'm out there. So it must have steet maners. I dont need a big lope to let everyone know what I have. I would rather have a smooth idle with minimal lope. Still would like some easy 10's on just motor.
12-09-2002, 03:11 PM
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Re: Budget calls for a ARE 393 all bore, help me select a cam: 232/236 114 +4
I can just about about get it to run smoothly (still some cold problems and small amount of surge at 1200 - 1400 rpms) in stock cubes. I'll bet with 393 cubes, it would work fine.
I can just about about get it to run smoothly (still some cold problems and small amount of surge at 1200 - 1400 rpms) in stock cubes. I'll bet with 393 cubes, it would work fine.
12-09-2002, 03:22 PM
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Re: Budget calls for a ARE 393 all bore, help me select a cam: congrats man, i have been talkig to them for about 2 weeks now about a solid roller AB382 for me. i will more than likely place my order next week. best of luck.did u try asking wade about a cam size. they already have mine designed just waiting for my go ahead. like i said congrats & i know u will be happy they do a great work.
12-09-2002, 04:03 PM
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Re: Budget calls for a ARE 393 all bore, help me select a cam: I already have the 232/236 on a 112, in my stock motor & ARE stage 2 heads.
I did ask Wade about the cam, and he's thinking about it. I thought I'd get some input from the folks on the sites. He said the 232/236 that I have now would work well with the 393, but would be on the small side.
I'm sure they could have come up with something off the top of their head, if I hadn't taken it from the 382 to 393 with the offset ground crank. Though there shouldn't be much difference, should there? Maybe I'm wanting something I can't have, ultimate power & a smooth idle.
I wish I could have afforded the extra $3000, I would have gotten the solid roller. Maybe in the future, when I go with a stroker crank.
I did ask Wade about the cam, and he's thinking about it. I thought I'd get some input from the folks on the sites. He said the 232/236 that I have now would work well with the 393, but would be on the small side.
I'm sure they could have come up with something off the top of their head, if I hadn't taken it from the 382 to 393 with the offset ground crank. Though there shouldn't be much difference, should there? Maybe I'm wanting something I can't have, ultimate power & a smooth idle.
I wish I could have afforded the extra $3000, I would have gotten the solid roller. Maybe in the future, when I go with a stroker crank.
12-09-2002, 04:31 PM
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Re: Budget calls for a ARE 393 all bore, help me select a cam: "All bore on juice?you won't make any torque...."
I know, but I'll rough it out until I can afford the stroker crank. <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_cheers.gif" />
I know, but I'll rough it out until I can afford the stroker crank. <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_cheers.gif" />
12-09-2002, 05:46 PM
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Re: Budget calls for a ARE 393 all bore, help me select a cam: </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Black Sunshine/ 00SS:
<strong>"All bore on juice?you won't make any torque...."
I know, but I'll rough it out until I can afford the stroker crank. <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_cheers.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">And new rods and pistons...
What does ARE recommend for that motor?
<strong>"All bore on juice?you won't make any torque...."
I know, but I'll rough it out until I can afford the stroker crank. <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_cheers.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">And new rods and pistons...
What does ARE recommend for that motor?
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12-09-2002, 09:58 PM
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Re: Budget calls for a ARE 393 all bore, help me select a cam: Just ordered it today, not going to be ready until Feb at least. So no decision on the cam yet from Wade.
I'm thinking 236/238 with lift in the 590-600 range, on a 114 ls.
I'm thinking 236/238 with lift in the 590-600 range, on a 114 ls.
12-09-2002, 10:03 PM
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Re: Budget calls for a ARE 393 all bore, help me select a cam: Sounds good cliff, I'm getting a 236/238 .610/.610 111 lsa cam in my 388 all bore. With tuning I think it will be fine <img border="0" alt="[devil]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_devil.gif" />
12-10-2002, 06:32 AM
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Re: Budget calls for a ARE 393 all bore, help me select a cam: do u know anyone on the board with a 393 or something close. then u could get some better rounded ideas. i have talked to Gearge C on the phone about his set up since i am going solid roller too & learned a lot & got many ideas. they are going to set my car up the came way as his as far as i know; just dropping the comp. to 11.5:1.i thought u would have got more responses by now, best of luck. <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_cheers.gif" />
12-10-2002, 01:12 PM
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Re: Budget calls for a ARE 393 all bore, help me select a cam: Yeah Im not sure where that lack of low end torque comment comes from, unless you go with a really huge cam it should have plenty of low end torque.
The thing I would be worried about with a raised CR and bigger valves from the heads (do you have 2.055 or 2.08?) would be Piston to valve clearance on a really big cam.
The thing I would be worried about with a raised CR and bigger valves from the heads (do you have 2.055 or 2.08?) would be Piston to valve clearance on a really big cam.
12-10-2002, 01:16 PM
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Re: Budget calls for a ARE 393 all bore, help me select a cam: Sounds like a strong build, I would not o-ring the block or use copper gaskets I would just use Cometic gaskets. ARP heads studs will help keep the heads from lifting unlike stock head bolts which can just stretch.
12-10-2002, 01:52 PM
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Re: Budget calls for a ARE 393 all bore, help me select a cam: Technically with a stroke of 3.72", you can not call it an 'All bore' motor. You are strokin' a little <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" /> Very nice setup anyway.
12-10-2002, 04:21 PM
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Re: Budget calls for a ARE 393 all bore, help me select a cam: Here is my limited experience:
I run a 4.125" bore, 3.72" stroke (396ci), LS6 heads, 2.1 intake valves.
With a MMS 229v2.1 (229 229 .578 .578 114ls) I put down 496rw peak, and the car idled very smoothly. I switched over to a 242/236 .612 .580 110ls camshaft, and the car picked up around 5-10rwhp across the band, at the cost of some idle quality.
I run a 4.125" bore, 3.72" stroke (396ci), LS6 heads, 2.1 intake valves.
With a MMS 229v2.1 (229 229 .578 .578 114ls) I put down 496rw peak, and the car idled very smoothly. I switched over to a 242/236 .612 .580 110ls camshaft, and the car picked up around 5-10rwhp across the band, at the cost of some idle quality.
12-10-2002, 04:46 PM
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Re: Budget calls for a ARE 393 all bore, help me select a cam: PS. The all bores make good power but torque is just so so. Gear accordingly. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />
12-10-2002, 06:33 PM
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Re: Budget calls for a ARE 393 all bore, help me select a cam: There wont be a problem with P to V clearance. The heads are going in to be enlarged. They already have 2.05 valves. I'm sure ARE will be checking for that. I actually would like a little extra room in the P to V area, so I can switch cams in the future, if need be.
"Sounds good cliff" Who the hell is cliff? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="gr_eek2.gif" />
JPR seems to be getting some great #'s, but nothing close to the ones that Terry is getting, 500 HP on a 396. Those are 422-436 #'s. Are you sure your dyno is working Terry? What are you doing to your motor that allows you to get 60 hp more that the JPR motor. I can see an extra 10-15 because of the LS6 heads, but where does the extra 50 come from?
I'm being optimistic, and hoping for something in the 450 range.
"Sounds good cliff" Who the hell is cliff? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="gr_eek2.gif" />
JPR seems to be getting some great #'s, but nothing close to the ones that Terry is getting, 500 HP on a 396. Those are 422-436 #'s. Are you sure your dyno is working Terry? What are you doing to your motor that allows you to get 60 hp more that the JPR motor. I can see an extra 10-15 because of the LS6 heads, but where does the extra 50 come from?
I'm being optimistic, and hoping for something in the 450 range.
12-10-2002, 06:43 PM
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Re: Budget calls for a ARE 393 all bore, help me select a cam: LOL, sorry Black Sunshine you sent me a pic of your dual exhaust setup once and it said from cliff, I don't weather you sent it under someone elses name. Terry's 396 had very minimal drivetrain lose when he dynoed the car, locked 4400 stall and a stock tranny and stock 4.10 rear. I believed he dynoed 20rwhp less after his new tranny and convertor swap though. But the mian thing that matters to me are track times, not dyno numbers; Terry's car seems to be running fine <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />
12-10-2002, 06:51 PM
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Re: Budget calls for a ARE 393 all bore, help me select a cam: </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">
JPR seems to be getting some great #'s, but nothing close to the ones that Terry is getting, 500 HP on a 396. Those are 422-436 #'s. Are you sure your dyno is working Terry? What are you doing to your motor that allows you to get 60 hp more that the JPR motor. I can see an extra 10-15 because of the LS6 heads, but where does the extra 50 come from?
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">FWIW I put down 446rwhp with my 346ci heads/cam setup. At first everyone doubted the numbers but the car ran consistent 10s@125+mph. When I went to the big bore I picked up ~50rwhp, which seams reasonable when you consider I added 50 cubic inches. Some potential differences between my setup and others is I have 12:1 CR, LS6 heads, light weight pistons, an EWP, and I run dual cutouts (IE no mufflers) at the track/dyno.
JPR seems to be getting some great #'s, but nothing close to the ones that Terry is getting, 500 HP on a 396. Those are 422-436 #'s. Are you sure your dyno is working Terry? What are you doing to your motor that allows you to get 60 hp more that the JPR motor. I can see an extra 10-15 because of the LS6 heads, but where does the extra 50 come from?
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">FWIW I put down 446rwhp with my 346ci heads/cam setup. At first everyone doubted the numbers but the car ran consistent 10s@125+mph. When I went to the big bore I picked up ~50rwhp, which seams reasonable when you consider I added 50 cubic inches. Some potential differences between my setup and others is I have 12:1 CR, LS6 heads, light weight pistons, an EWP, and I run dual cutouts (IE no mufflers) at the track/dyno.
12-10-2002, 08:51 PM
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Re: Budget calls for a ARE 393 all bore, help me select a cam: Sounds like a great build! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="gr_images/icons/cool.gif" />
For idle quality I think a 240/240 XE-R on 114LSA with NO advance would work really nice on motor and spray <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
(great power spread plus good idle and a peak around 6400rpm.)
If you are only running a 200 shot the single pattern will give better drivability.
Cheers,
Chris
For idle quality I think a 240/240 XE-R on 114LSA with NO advance would work really nice on motor and spray <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
(great power spread plus good idle and a peak around 6400rpm.)
If you are only running a 200 shot the single pattern will give better drivability.
Cheers,
Chris
12-11-2002, 12:28 AM
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Re: Budget calls for a ARE 393 all bore, help me select a cam: </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by 01-Z:
<strong>All bore on juice?you won't make any torque.... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">The all-bores are making decent torque even NA, just look at the report on JPR's 382. Seems like the all bore may be the best of both worlds. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
<strong>All bore on juice?you won't make any torque.... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">The all-bores are making decent torque even NA, just look at the report on JPR's 382. Seems like the all bore may be the best of both worlds. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />