squealingtires

iTrader: (14)

I discovered this on MSD's website. These oxygen sensors appear to come in a 3 wire arrangement (1. Sensor output voltage 2. Heater input voltage 3. ground). These sensors appear to be very promising based upon the fact that they claim to hold temp at 1300 degrees farenheight! I think that this is about twice what OEM narrowbands need run at to be accurate, approx. 600*F, but I could be wong.

Anyways check out the page. The O2 sensors are mid-way down.

http://www.msdignition.com/fuel_12.htm

Would the 4 wire configured PCM fuss if it did not have the "sensor ground" signal since on a 3 wire configuration the signal and heater ground are shared through the chassis? (This could cause potential ground loop issues, I know)

MeentSS02

iTrader: (11)

Not sure the wiring harness and PCM would get along with a 3-wire sensor...I got tired of the marketing and hype and ditched my narrow band O2 sensors a couple years ago. Until they come up with something else...

I'm not exactly sure how they could hold a 1300* F temp though...

SilverSmoke

really? your OL all the time? You probably have the same huge temp swings in OH like we have here in NJ. How do you get around that with running your car. I want to go back to MAF so it can compensate better for the changes in the air.

MeentSS02

iTrader: (11)

I've honestly never had a problem...up until about 3 weeks ago, my car was daily driven (snow and all). At least 20,000 of those miles were open loop, speed density. Mine just seemed to tolerate the temp swings very well...it would run roughly the same AFR when it was 15* outside as it would when it was in the 60s.

SilverSmoke

Dang! Do you have STFT activated, and maybe a special table you are using with the IAT to compensate for air temp, like spark table?

GuitsBoy

iTrader: (4)

The computer does advanced airflow calculations based off the main VE table, factoring in RPM vs. MAP, ECT, IAT, and MAF if youre still using one (Meents is not). Many people run open loop full time, myself included. The computer does a pretty good job of keeping the AFR accurate through all sorts of weather conditions year round, although the hot wire MAF seems to help keep things accurate over speed density throughout the seasons.

Doing this requires great attention to detail tuning the VE table. It is also wide to check up on things from time to time. I log via widebang o2 sensor nearly every time i take the car out, just to verify things are running nicely.

MeentSS02

iTrader: (11)

Nope...no STFTs (they wouldn't work anyways without the narrowband O2 sensors installed), and no IAT compensation. Now, that said, I don't have the IAT sensor in the intake tract...it sits in its own little box towards the front of the car (close to the driver's side headlight). It keeps the summer time heat soak to a minimum.

It is something that is sort of an ongoing experiment I'm conducting...also, as eluded to by GuitsBoy, I keep a CONSTANT eye on the operation of the car from an AFR standpoint. My wideband O2 sensor is installed full time in my car in the driver's side header bung, and I get its readout on my XD-16 gauge that I watch very closely. If it does something I don't like, I fix it right there. I usually only have to touch up the tune every 6 months or so, or whenever I install a new mod that will affect the tune.

2002_Z28_Six_Speed

iTrader: (19)

I recently purchased the XD-16, but, I have not been able to install it yet.

SilverSmoke

That's interesting, I am in SD with STFT on, and my O2 sensors are not activated. I log them and they are none existant, but the STFT are working and balancing the AFR. How is this so?

squealingtires

iTrader: (14)

Help, I've been doh!

Wow, I just realized the hijacker cartoon is wearing a turbin...

ZL1Killa

iTrader: (17)

honestly, its not worth the $$ to me if i can just turn the p1133 and p1153 codes off....and the car runs fine. why is everyone complaining about these codes again.... I know dozens of people that just turn these codes off and their cars are ALL fine.

HOWEVER, it would be interesting to see if that does fix the problem, so someone invest, LOL.

squealingtires

iTrader: (14)

Well, I've got a flatlining O2 sensor on bank two so I've got to replace it with something. These are $87 bucks each through summit. I think the last Bosch O2 sensor was like $70 something so I think this is worth it. I'm planning on getting two sensors for balance.

Any advice on wiring a 3 wire to a 4 wire harness? can almost say for certain that it would not be a good idea to split the 3 wire sensor's ground and connect to both grounds on the harness (possible damage to the PCM)

MeentSS02

iTrader: (11)

That's gonna be the long pole in the tent...you'll have to figure out how to wire it so the PCM doesn't hate you.

SSpdDmon

iTrader: (10)

I think it'd be just like an LC1 setup. I think you need to ground the low signal wire, connect the sensor wire to the PCM, and then use the stock heater/ground wires for a power source.

SilverSmoke

I dont think you can guarantee sensor accuracy with a 3 pin-out design to a 4 by using an alternate ground, having ground loop as a possible variant. I don't think there is any way to calibrate an nbo2 is there?

squealingtires

iTrader: (14)

back up for more consideration