Those of you considering Carnival Cruises...
06-29-2007, 08:01 PM
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Those of you considering Carnival Cruises... Kenneth Williams is a patrol deputy with the Sheriff's Office - I know this to be a true story - it was in the news but not with this much detail and information
Subject: FW: Help Spread the Word - Jamaica robbery
Got this from Deputy Kenneth Williams
Please foward this to as many people as possible. This is our experience in Jamaica and I want to warn anyone who plans on going there. Thanks for your help
On June 10, 2007, my wife, 12-year old son, 10-year old daughter, and I set sail on the Carnival Conquest from Galveston, Texas. Being that this was our first cruise, we were looking forward to spending some quality time together as a family. The first stop was Jamaica, where my children and wife lost their safety and innocence, when we opted for a Carnival excursion, “Lethe Village Tour”. We selected this tour to show the kids the culture of Jamaican natives. We had no idea how this decision would change our lives forever.
I am a 17-year police veteran. Before my current profession, I proudly served in the U.S. Army. Safety and protection is my number one goal with anyone, especially with my wife and children. With this in mind, I attended the excursion meeting that was held on the ship by the Cruise Director, Mr. Price.
During that excursion meeting, the Director's exact words were… “In order to see the true Jamaica, you have to take a Carnival Shore Excursion." He added, “The Carnival Shore Excursions are guaranteed safe." He explained that in the port city, we may encounter some undesirables, attempting to sell marijuana or pressureing you to take their cab. He explained that the Red-Tag cabs were the only registered cabs. He continued to persuade us to take a Carnival Excursion. It was definitely a sales pitch for Carnival Shore Excursions, using safety as a very attractive sale point. There were no other warnings spoken of, other than the marijuana and high pressure taxi sell. After the meeting, I was confident in my decision to take the Carnival Excursion, because of the “guaranteed” safety.
We arrived in Montego Bay on June 13th, where my family and I boarded the excursion bus, along with 13 other passengers. Two of the passengers were my father and step-mother. My father, who is 67 years old has had two major heart attacks, the last one in July of 2006. This was the perfect relaxing Excursion for him.
We drove approximately 30-40 minutes into the country of Lethe, Hanover. Along the way, we observed extreme poverty, which made me uncomfortable and feeling as though we were not safe at all. The people looked at us as though they were angry with us for some reason.
We arrived at the plantation and met with a few natives, who explained a few things about bananas and coconuts. Then, we boarded a green and yellow trolley, connected to an old John Deer tractor. The excursion tour guide had turned us over to an elderly Jamaican plantation worker, Dalton, who pulled the trolley further into the plantation, surrounded by lush, thick jungle vegetation. I was relaxed and felt secure, as my family and I observed the flowers and tropical plants. Dalton had given a presentation on the banana plant and was pulling us through the plantation, towards a botanical garden to view some flowers and listen to a kindergarten class sing to us.
As we traveled further through the plantation, we approached a side-road to our right that was also surrounded with vegetation. It was here that our world came crashing down… Two men ambushed our trolley, approaching with guns and a knife. They immediately took control of our lives, pointing a pistol at the driver and ordering him to stop. Visibly shaken, Dalton exited and pleaded for the men not to hurt anyone.
The two gunmen began yelling, "f_ _king foreigners. Give us your f_ _king money, man. Don't f_ _k with us, man. We're f_ _king crazy." They approached on opposite sides and were either madmen or on some form of drug. My two children were sitting behind my wife and me, next to my stepmother and my father.
One of the gunmen placed an 8" revolver in my 10-year-old daughter’s face. My daughter was crying and pleading with the gunman not to kill her. I have never felt so helpless in my life! I still get physically sick thinking about this. As visions of my daughter’s life passed before my eyes, all I could think of was how badly I wanted her in my arms. The gunman kept the gun in her face, as he stole her disposable camera and all the belongings of the other passengers. These gunmen were jerking passengers around as they removed the valuables. One gunman took his knife and cut a camera from around one of the passengers neck. There was no doubt that these guys were violent and on the verge of hurting one of us. They continuously called us F_____king foreigners and it appeared as though they were angry about us being there. Once they had stolen everything, both gunmen disappeared back into the jungle, leaving my family and all the other victims visibly shaken, violated, and terrified.
The driver brought us back to the starting point of the plantation, where we exited the trolley and told other tourists of our nightmare. They all loaded back onto their buses, and were taken back to the Carnival Conquest, leaving us at the plantation still in fear and shock.
The other plantation workers were upset about us being robbed and grabbed their machetes and some sharpened cane poles. They wanted to go back to the robbery site to search for the gunmen. I had never seen the sharpened cane poles, but later I figured that they knew it was dangerous around there or they never would have had the weapons. As a police officer, it was easy to tell that these guys must have known this area was dangerous and they needed these weapons on hand for protection. Carnival should have known, it was a Carnival Excursion.
Approximately 20-minutes later, the Jamaican police arrived. One officer took shorts statements from all of us, however, I wrote out a statement for him. He stated that he was new at this and he appeared to be overwhelmed with the number of victims. He kept saying that some more officers were suppose to come and help with statements. They never showed, but I believe all available officers were out searching for the robbers. The officer told me that they were notifying the local villages to look out for the suspects. I did find out that the owner of the Lethe Village Tour Plantation was running for the Ministry of Tourism. I couldn’t help but laugh, knowing that we had just been violently robbed on this person’s plantation. I thought if it could happen here, it can happen anywhere in Jamaica.
After approximately 3 ˝ -hours, we were transported back to the Carnival Conquest, where some of the crew shuffled us back onto the ship and into a debriefing room. They apologized, stating that they had no idea that something like this could happen to us.
After the debriefing, we were released back to the cruise. We began hearing from Carnival employees, regarding their knowledge of how dangerous Jamaica can be, and their reason for not leaving the ship. Every crewmember to whom I spoke with stated that they do not leave the ship, because they fear for their safety; yet, Carnival allowed us and other passengers to leave the ship, guaranteeing our safety.
The next day, I was told that the two gunmen tried to exit the jungle approximately 2 miles from the plantation around 10:00PM, where the encountered the Jamaican Police and tried to shoot their way out. One gunmen was shot and killed and the second one got away.
Carnival brought a Crisis Intervention Therapist onboard, who met with us. She remained on the ship, all the way back to Galveston, Texas. At the end of the cruise, she recommended that our family seek further counseling in order to deal with this traumatic event. My wife and I agreed. A letter was also delivered to our cabin from the CEO of Carnival, apologizing for the incident. It also stated that Guest Relation Supervisor, Dorothy Georges, would be standing-by for our phone call on Monday morning, June 18th. When I called on Monday to inquire about the additional counseling, Ms. Georges was not available. I left a message.
Subject: FW: Help Spread the Word - Jamaica robbery
Got this from Deputy Kenneth Williams
Please foward this to as many people as possible. This is our experience in Jamaica and I want to warn anyone who plans on going there. Thanks for your help
On June 10, 2007, my wife, 12-year old son, 10-year old daughter, and I set sail on the Carnival Conquest from Galveston, Texas. Being that this was our first cruise, we were looking forward to spending some quality time together as a family. The first stop was Jamaica, where my children and wife lost their safety and innocence, when we opted for a Carnival excursion, “Lethe Village Tour”. We selected this tour to show the kids the culture of Jamaican natives. We had no idea how this decision would change our lives forever.
I am a 17-year police veteran. Before my current profession, I proudly served in the U.S. Army. Safety and protection is my number one goal with anyone, especially with my wife and children. With this in mind, I attended the excursion meeting that was held on the ship by the Cruise Director, Mr. Price.
During that excursion meeting, the Director's exact words were… “In order to see the true Jamaica, you have to take a Carnival Shore Excursion." He added, “The Carnival Shore Excursions are guaranteed safe." He explained that in the port city, we may encounter some undesirables, attempting to sell marijuana or pressureing you to take their cab. He explained that the Red-Tag cabs were the only registered cabs. He continued to persuade us to take a Carnival Excursion. It was definitely a sales pitch for Carnival Shore Excursions, using safety as a very attractive sale point. There were no other warnings spoken of, other than the marijuana and high pressure taxi sell. After the meeting, I was confident in my decision to take the Carnival Excursion, because of the “guaranteed” safety.
We arrived in Montego Bay on June 13th, where my family and I boarded the excursion bus, along with 13 other passengers. Two of the passengers were my father and step-mother. My father, who is 67 years old has had two major heart attacks, the last one in July of 2006. This was the perfect relaxing Excursion for him.
We drove approximately 30-40 minutes into the country of Lethe, Hanover. Along the way, we observed extreme poverty, which made me uncomfortable and feeling as though we were not safe at all. The people looked at us as though they were angry with us for some reason.
We arrived at the plantation and met with a few natives, who explained a few things about bananas and coconuts. Then, we boarded a green and yellow trolley, connected to an old John Deer tractor. The excursion tour guide had turned us over to an elderly Jamaican plantation worker, Dalton, who pulled the trolley further into the plantation, surrounded by lush, thick jungle vegetation. I was relaxed and felt secure, as my family and I observed the flowers and tropical plants. Dalton had given a presentation on the banana plant and was pulling us through the plantation, towards a botanical garden to view some flowers and listen to a kindergarten class sing to us.
As we traveled further through the plantation, we approached a side-road to our right that was also surrounded with vegetation. It was here that our world came crashing down… Two men ambushed our trolley, approaching with guns and a knife. They immediately took control of our lives, pointing a pistol at the driver and ordering him to stop. Visibly shaken, Dalton exited and pleaded for the men not to hurt anyone.
The two gunmen began yelling, "f_ _king foreigners. Give us your f_ _king money, man. Don't f_ _k with us, man. We're f_ _king crazy." They approached on opposite sides and were either madmen or on some form of drug. My two children were sitting behind my wife and me, next to my stepmother and my father.
One of the gunmen placed an 8" revolver in my 10-year-old daughter’s face. My daughter was crying and pleading with the gunman not to kill her. I have never felt so helpless in my life! I still get physically sick thinking about this. As visions of my daughter’s life passed before my eyes, all I could think of was how badly I wanted her in my arms. The gunman kept the gun in her face, as he stole her disposable camera and all the belongings of the other passengers. These gunmen were jerking passengers around as they removed the valuables. One gunman took his knife and cut a camera from around one of the passengers neck. There was no doubt that these guys were violent and on the verge of hurting one of us. They continuously called us F_____king foreigners and it appeared as though they were angry about us being there. Once they had stolen everything, both gunmen disappeared back into the jungle, leaving my family and all the other victims visibly shaken, violated, and terrified.
The driver brought us back to the starting point of the plantation, where we exited the trolley and told other tourists of our nightmare. They all loaded back onto their buses, and were taken back to the Carnival Conquest, leaving us at the plantation still in fear and shock.
The other plantation workers were upset about us being robbed and grabbed their machetes and some sharpened cane poles. They wanted to go back to the robbery site to search for the gunmen. I had never seen the sharpened cane poles, but later I figured that they knew it was dangerous around there or they never would have had the weapons. As a police officer, it was easy to tell that these guys must have known this area was dangerous and they needed these weapons on hand for protection. Carnival should have known, it was a Carnival Excursion.
Approximately 20-minutes later, the Jamaican police arrived. One officer took shorts statements from all of us, however, I wrote out a statement for him. He stated that he was new at this and he appeared to be overwhelmed with the number of victims. He kept saying that some more officers were suppose to come and help with statements. They never showed, but I believe all available officers were out searching for the robbers. The officer told me that they were notifying the local villages to look out for the suspects. I did find out that the owner of the Lethe Village Tour Plantation was running for the Ministry of Tourism. I couldn’t help but laugh, knowing that we had just been violently robbed on this person’s plantation. I thought if it could happen here, it can happen anywhere in Jamaica.
After approximately 3 ˝ -hours, we were transported back to the Carnival Conquest, where some of the crew shuffled us back onto the ship and into a debriefing room. They apologized, stating that they had no idea that something like this could happen to us.
After the debriefing, we were released back to the cruise. We began hearing from Carnival employees, regarding their knowledge of how dangerous Jamaica can be, and their reason for not leaving the ship. Every crewmember to whom I spoke with stated that they do not leave the ship, because they fear for their safety; yet, Carnival allowed us and other passengers to leave the ship, guaranteeing our safety.
The next day, I was told that the two gunmen tried to exit the jungle approximately 2 miles from the plantation around 10:00PM, where the encountered the Jamaican Police and tried to shoot their way out. One gunmen was shot and killed and the second one got away.
Carnival brought a Crisis Intervention Therapist onboard, who met with us. She remained on the ship, all the way back to Galveston, Texas. At the end of the cruise, she recommended that our family seek further counseling in order to deal with this traumatic event. My wife and I agreed. A letter was also delivered to our cabin from the CEO of Carnival, apologizing for the incident. It also stated that Guest Relation Supervisor, Dorothy Georges, would be standing-by for our phone call on Monday morning, June 18th. When I called on Monday to inquire about the additional counseling, Ms. Georges was not available. I left a message.
06-29-2007, 08:01 PM
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When Ms. Georges returned my call, I expressed my concerns and asked how we would go about having Carnival pay for our counseling. She stated that she could not confirm whether or not Carnival would pay for the counseling, and would not have an answer on this for a few days. This infuriated me even more, thinking that if it were THEIR 10-year old girl, who had a gun shoved in her face and forced to plead for her life, they would have immediately said, “Yes” to my counseling request. At this point Carnival began handling this incident as ‘strictly business’. There was no compassion whatsoever!
My wife continues to shake at times, so much that she has been unable to return to work. My son claims that he sometimes sees one of the gunmen in our house. My daughter has broken out in hives. I for one get so angry and upset that I physically shake and then cry. I go back and forth. I am nauseated just writing this story. We all have nightmares in relation to this incident. It is ridiculous and totally neglectful on the part of Carnival that we were not given the true facts and information about Jamaica. I would never have subjected my family to this if I had received this valid information, in advance, and I will now live with that decision forever.
I wish to strongly encourage anyone, who is considering traveling to Jamaica, to STOP! It is not worth the risk. They prey on the tourists, knowing that they carry money and other valuables. The natives earn approximately $50-$100 dollars a week. The two gunmen, who robbed us, escaped with approximately two to three thousand dollars. This is the equivalent to someone robbing a bank in the USA. This will only continue. They have no choice. The poverty is too bad.
Word of this cash crop will spread and there will be more excursion robberies. I am hoping to get this information out to the public and caution all tourists, who are contemplating a cruise or trip to Jamaica. It’s not safe! I want to warn you, because Carnival will not.
My wife continues to shake at times, so much that she has been unable to return to work. My son claims that he sometimes sees one of the gunmen in our house. My daughter has broken out in hives. I for one get so angry and upset that I physically shake and then cry. I go back and forth. I am nauseated just writing this story. We all have nightmares in relation to this incident. It is ridiculous and totally neglectful on the part of Carnival that we were not given the true facts and information about Jamaica. I would never have subjected my family to this if I had received this valid information, in advance, and I will now live with that decision forever.
I wish to strongly encourage anyone, who is considering traveling to Jamaica, to STOP! It is not worth the risk. They prey on the tourists, knowing that they carry money and other valuables. The natives earn approximately $50-$100 dollars a week. The two gunmen, who robbed us, escaped with approximately two to three thousand dollars. This is the equivalent to someone robbing a bank in the USA. This will only continue. They have no choice. The poverty is too bad.
Word of this cash crop will spread and there will be more excursion robberies. I am hoping to get this information out to the public and caution all tourists, who are contemplating a cruise or trip to Jamaica. It’s not safe! I want to warn you, because Carnival will not.
06-29-2007, 09:16 PM
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anyone with any common sense knows to stay out of Jamaica. it isnt safe for adults and it sure as hell isnt safe for kids. someone should bitch slap this kenneth williams for being a dumbass and endangering his family. all he had to do is some research with respectable travel agents and he would have been informed about the danger. he wouldnt endanger his children by taking them to a ghetto at night to show how those people live, so what makes him think he could get away with basically the same thing, only in another country.
06-29-2007, 09:41 PM
#4
Jamaica is a third world country....to think any American would be safe in such a place, is just foolish and naive IMO. People can not act like they will be safe as they usually are in this country. Many people in third world coountries have nothing to lose.
This was a truly terrible situation and I feel terrible for everyone that was violated.
This was a truly terrible situation and I feel terrible for everyone that was violated.
06-29-2007, 10:12 PM
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That is EXACTLY why Carnival should take responsibility for having a dangerous excursion offered through their service.....I almost took the same excursion while in Jamaica.....If they offer it you ASSUME its safe....obviously it isn't. Simply put Carnival sucks....
Safety is a concern on ANY carribean island along with Mexico....
This is also why I prefer to go to Maui where YOU are the poor part of the population.
The 7 day cruise I took from Galveston in Feb actually cost more $$$$$ total than my trip to Maui in April. As for a comparison of fun, beauty etc etc etc there is none.
Safety is a concern on ANY carribean island along with Mexico....
This is also why I prefer to go to Maui where YOU are the poor part of the population.
The 7 day cruise I took from Galveston in Feb actually cost more $$$$$ total than my trip to Maui in April. As for a comparison of fun, beauty etc etc etc there is none. Last edited by cantdrv65; 06-29-2007 at 10:19 PM.
06-29-2007, 11:52 PM
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that is some scary ****. He & his family should be very grateful to hAve made it out alive. I honestly cant imagine something that traumatic happening to me, tho its niave to think it doesnt happen at other vacation hotspots or even here in the states. **** i read about robberies, murders, etc.. on daily basis and that's here in Dallas. Either way, its good that they made it out unharmed.
06-30-2007, 10:20 AM
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He is a cop of 17 years, and a veteran, and he didn't do research on a family vacation? C'mon, lets get a brain.
Im not siding with Carnival either. All of those cruise lines are crap. They are all filthy boats with minimal cleaning going on (Google it, people get sick on cruises all the time from bad food and a dirty cooking environment). All they want is your money, just like everyone else, and they will skimp everywhere to gain more profit. Just because they didn't ambush you with a gun and knife doesn't mean they didn't rob you.
Besides, 2 on 17... with a cop? Ill tell you what, if there is only 1 other guy and some Jamacian asshat sticks a gun in my kids face????? That gun wouldn't be there for long. Especially if their upper hand is less than an arms reach from me. Beat the **** out of him right quick and point gun at other robber.
Im not siding with Carnival either. All of those cruise lines are crap. They are all filthy boats with minimal cleaning going on (Google it, people get sick on cruises all the time from bad food and a dirty cooking environment). All they want is your money, just like everyone else, and they will skimp everywhere to gain more profit. Just because they didn't ambush you with a gun and knife doesn't mean they didn't rob you.
Besides, 2 on 17... with a cop? Ill tell you what, if there is only 1 other guy and some Jamacian asshat sticks a gun in my kids face????? That gun wouldn't be there for long. Especially if their upper hand is less than an arms reach from me. Beat the **** out of him right quick and point gun at other robber.
Last edited by DSIM; 06-30-2007 at 10:26 AM.
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06-30-2007, 12:20 PM
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Originally Posted by DSIM
He is a cop of 17 years, and a veteran, and he didn't do research on a family vacation? C'mon, lets get a brain.
Im not siding with Carnival either. All of those cruise lines are crap. They are all filthy boats with minimal cleaning going on (Google it, people get sick on cruises all the time from bad food and a dirty cooking environment). All they want is your money, just like everyone else, and they will skimp everywhere to gain more profit. Just because they didn't ambush you with a gun and knife doesn't mean they didn't rob you.
Besides, 2 on 17... with a cop? Ill tell you what, if there is only 1 other guy and some Jamacian asshat sticks a gun in my kids face????? That gun wouldn't be there for long. Especially if their upper hand is less than an arms reach from me. Beat the **** out of him right quick and point gun at other robber.
Im not siding with Carnival either. All of those cruise lines are crap. They are all filthy boats with minimal cleaning going on (Google it, people get sick on cruises all the time from bad food and a dirty cooking environment). All they want is your money, just like everyone else, and they will skimp everywhere to gain more profit. Just because they didn't ambush you with a gun and knife doesn't mean they didn't rob you.
Besides, 2 on 17... with a cop? Ill tell you what, if there is only 1 other guy and some Jamacian asshat sticks a gun in my kids face????? That gun wouldn't be there for long. Especially if their upper hand is less than an arms reach from me. Beat the **** out of him right quick and point gun at other robber.
I guess your hand is quicker than somebodie's finger on the trigger? You would take that risk?
I do agree though that the cruise line and the tourists are both to blame.
06-30-2007, 12:50 PM
#10
I've been to Jamaica a couple times, both while cruising, once was last year on the same cruise you were on. I like the Carnival cruise lines...but I am timid to take shore excursions where you have to leave the actual city you port in. Montego Bay is still pretty dirty and poverty striken but with so many police everywhere, not too much goes down (at least from my perspective).
I'm really sorry to hear what happened...freaking makes me sick to see what the world has come to. Thank God we live in the USA!
I'm really sorry to hear what happened...freaking makes me sick to see what the world has come to. Thank God we live in the USA!
06-30-2007, 01:02 PM
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I went on that same cruise about a year or two ago. Jamaica just sucks. If you are not in one of the compounds, that keeps the locals out, it is very unsafe. It is very clear that the only reason they have you there is for your $$$$$.
06-30-2007, 01:38 PM
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Thats why I don't want to leave the states. I knew a girl that was robbed at gunpoint and it serisouly freaked her out for a long long time. She had to go to see a counselor for a quite a while. Its a sad thing that such stuff is happening.
06-30-2007, 02:51 PM
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How about we just never vacation anywhere south of Texas...
I've heard similar horror stories from Mexico (multiple destinations including Cancun,) the Bahamas, Jamaica, etc. Whether you cruise there or fly to a Resort, you're never "100% safe."
Now I would expect Carnival to cover the counseling for the man's family, and they're lucky not to have been sued, but I don't think you can say "Well I'm never going on another cruise or vacation outside of the US" b/c out of the 1000s of people who do every year, only a small percentage ever have a problem...
I've heard similar horror stories from Mexico (multiple destinations including Cancun,) the Bahamas, Jamaica, etc. Whether you cruise there or fly to a Resort, you're never "100% safe."
Now I would expect Carnival to cover the counseling for the man's family, and they're lucky not to have been sued, but I don't think you can say "Well I'm never going on another cruise or vacation outside of the US" b/c out of the 1000s of people who do every year, only a small percentage ever have a problem...
06-30-2007, 06:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Black_Tx_WS6
How about we just never vacation anywhere south of Texas...
I've heard similar horror stories from Mexico (multiple destinations including Cancun,) the Bahamas, Jamaica, etc. Whether you cruise there or fly to a Resort, you're never "100% safe."
Now I would expect Carnival to cover the counseling for the man's family, and they're lucky not to have been sued, but I don't think you can say "Well I'm never going on another cruise or vacation outside of the US" b/c out of the 1000s of people who do every year, only a small percentage ever have a problem...
I've heard similar horror stories from Mexico (multiple destinations including Cancun,) the Bahamas, Jamaica, etc. Whether you cruise there or fly to a Resort, you're never "100% safe."
Now I would expect Carnival to cover the counseling for the man's family, and they're lucky not to have been sued, but I don't think you can say "Well I'm never going on another cruise or vacation outside of the US" b/c out of the 1000s of people who do every year, only a small percentage ever have a problem...
07-02-2007, 07:30 AM
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Originally Posted by LS1x2
I guess your hand is quicker than somebodie's finger on the trigger? You would take that risk?
The guy was ex-military and a police officer. Maybe these days they don't teach you how to remove a weapon from a suspect.....
07-02-2007, 07:49 AM
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Originally Posted by cantdrv65
My point is why take the risk? I've been on several cruises and they all basically sucked. They take you to impoverished countries and it WILL end up costing you more than taking a trip to Maui. Cruise lines suck.....
07-03-2007, 10:55 AM
#17
Cruises don't suck at all...in fact, I would say for the $$, probably the best bang for your buck if you're on a budget. They do however take you to some crappy places...such as Jamaica. As far as the Conquest goes, Grand Caymans are really nice and I enjoy going to Cozumel even though I've been there umpteen times and it's the same thing...
Best cruise I ever took was out of San Juan and went down as far south as Barbados, then made its way back up to the US Virgin islands stopping at various islands along the way. I went on an Alaskan cruise once also...that was also pretty neat.
I do hate how they charge you $5.50 for a friken drink at the bar. I usually smuggle some on for good measure.
Best cruise I ever took was out of San Juan and went down as far south as Barbados, then made its way back up to the US Virgin islands stopping at various islands along the way. I went on an Alaskan cruise once also...that was also pretty neat.
I do hate how they charge you $5.50 for a friken drink at the bar. I usually smuggle some on for good measure
. 