Choose a supercharger for LS1?
07-06-2007, 06:55 PM
#1
Choose a supercharger for LS1? Guys, my close friend on here wants to install a Vortech on his 2000 A4 Z28. I am leaning towards the Procharger but those of you who know, could you help point him in a direction? I did a search but nobody really mentions Vortech, are they that bad? Looking for 500rwhp.
07-06-2007, 07:34 PM
#2
I had the v9 g trim kit on my old camaro. Never any problem's out of it. Made over 500rwhp also.I think the only down fall is people do not like tapping the oil pan for the drain and other than the ysi head unit that is about as big as you can go with vortech unless something is custom built.Otherwisw I think they are excellant head unit's!IMOA. 
07-06-2007, 07:40 PM
#3
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Vortech is not that bad but most would say procharger is better......... Just about everyone will also tell you that you should go with exotic performance plus because they are top notch from what everyone has told me and do probly the most procharger set up's in the country and will help you with whatever you need. I would tell him to stick towards the procharger just for simple reasons. And if he has any problems he can get tons of help from bob at epp or on here since so many people have used them on ls1's..... My .02
07-06-2007, 09:28 PM
#4
I'm the ******* who has one of each. I like them both, but I hate the fact that Procharger initially supplied only a 6-rib setup. I have experienced belt slip. On one occasion very bad slip that allowed a Viper truck to walk me on the highway. 
Ok, he was also spraying, but I still should have shown him my taillights easily. Vortech's base kit for the LS1 F-body starts out with an 8-rib right out of the box. The Vortech air to water intercooler has worked well for me, while I think the twin air to airs with my Procharger kit are just OK. The guys who have ditched the small twins for a FMIC have all picked up a nice power increase (at least all those I have seen). I like the Procharger being self oiling (self contained oil that is). You don't share oil with the motor, so no tapping the pan... but more importantly the motor is not making the same oil that goes through your head unit dirty.
Just a bunch of random jumbled thoughts. I'm not a super wizard at FI. I just have a couple kits.
And I just remembered: the electric fan that came with my Procharger kits is a POS that doesn't push enough air. I cannot run my A/C on really hot days or coolant/engine temps start to climb. Exactly the days I'd most want to run A/C, duh.
One day I'll get off my *** and upgrade to an 8-rib setup and a better fan. My race car has claimed all my time and money lately.
Ok, he was also spraying, but I still should have shown him my taillights easily. Vortech's base kit for the LS1 F-body starts out with an 8-rib right out of the box. The Vortech air to water intercooler has worked well for me, while I think the twin air to airs with my Procharger kit are just OK. The guys who have ditched the small twins for a FMIC have all picked up a nice power increase (at least all those I have seen). I like the Procharger being self oiling (self contained oil that is). You don't share oil with the motor, so no tapping the pan... but more importantly the motor is not making the same oil that goes through your head unit dirty.Just a bunch of random jumbled thoughts. I'm not a super wizard at FI. I just have a couple kits.
And I just remembered: the electric fan that came with my Procharger kits is a POS that doesn't push enough air. I cannot run my A/C on really hot days or coolant/engine temps start to climb. Exactly the days I'd most want to run A/C, duh.
One day I'll get off my *** and upgrade to an 8-rib setup and a better fan. My race car has claimed all my time and money lately.
07-06-2007, 11:50 PM
#6
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07-07-2007, 12:28 AM
#9
I agree with most of what TWS stated.
Unless you live in an area with very mild summers don't even think about installing an ATI without upgrading the fan system and/or radiator if you want to run AC.
You'll find you won't be able to run the AC or when you do the car will climb to 210 + and your IAT's will jump to detonate temps. Forget about getting into too much boost with your IAT's at 190 or above.
To handle all three (run ac, lower temps to 185-190, and get your IAT's down) you will need to replace the ATI supplied puller fan with a SPAL Extreme (pulls 3000 cfm) and with an additional 9 inch low profile puller fan installed just above the head unit on the driver side. Most on here also replace the inadequate stock radiator with a two row BeCool or Griffin radiator.
Also during the install make sure you super clean the AC condsensor unit - it's probably 35 percent clogged with dirt and debris which severly stresses the AC system and adds to overheating problems since the hot air off of it is drawn directly across and into the radiator fins by the puller fans aft of the radiator. It's not the best design by all means with a front end designed like the f-body. In city traffic or running stoplight after stoplight your car will overheat with the AC on.
The upgraded fans and radiator will cool down the motor but you will also need to lower the IAT's with an FMIC intercooler or possibly the newer 4 1/2 inch ATI twin intercoolers. The ideal is to replace the ATI twin intercoolers with an FMIC kit but this means you will have to hack your front bumper brace to make room for the FMIC.
If you do all of the above and you still aren't where you want to want to be tune-wise - consider a methanol kit. It will assure that you get your IAT's down so you can bump the boost and timing to make some good horesepower and not worry about blowing ringlands - if shortblock is still stock.
To sum up: budget $300 for the fans, $500 for the radiator, and $800 - $1000 for the FMIC kit and then another $400 for a retune. A good alcohol kit runs from $400 (Snow) to $600 (Alkycontrol). And the preceding assumes you provide your own labor for the installations and have upgraded the fuel delivery system with a higher capacity fuel pump and fuel injectors. IMO start with 60's and don't get talked into 42's.
Get all of that done - then be prepared to shred tires and start breaking things - tranny, driveshaft, rear-end etc. You'll need to upgrade all of these too.
Hindsight is golden. I should have just went out and bought a new Vette instead. But 500 - 600 rwhp is fun and dangerous.
Unless you live in an area with very mild summers don't even think about installing an ATI without upgrading the fan system and/or radiator if you want to run AC.
You'll find you won't be able to run the AC or when you do the car will climb to 210 + and your IAT's will jump to detonate temps. Forget about getting into too much boost with your IAT's at 190 or above.
To handle all three (run ac, lower temps to 185-190, and get your IAT's down) you will need to replace the ATI supplied puller fan with a SPAL Extreme (pulls 3000 cfm) and with an additional 9 inch low profile puller fan installed just above the head unit on the driver side. Most on here also replace the inadequate stock radiator with a two row BeCool or Griffin radiator.
Also during the install make sure you super clean the AC condsensor unit - it's probably 35 percent clogged with dirt and debris which severly stresses the AC system and adds to overheating problems since the hot air off of it is drawn directly across and into the radiator fins by the puller fans aft of the radiator. It's not the best design by all means with a front end designed like the f-body. In city traffic or running stoplight after stoplight your car will overheat with the AC on.
The upgraded fans and radiator will cool down the motor but you will also need to lower the IAT's with an FMIC intercooler or possibly the newer 4 1/2 inch ATI twin intercoolers. The ideal is to replace the ATI twin intercoolers with an FMIC kit but this means you will have to hack your front bumper brace to make room for the FMIC.
If you do all of the above and you still aren't where you want to want to be tune-wise - consider a methanol kit. It will assure that you get your IAT's down so you can bump the boost and timing to make some good horesepower and not worry about blowing ringlands - if shortblock is still stock.
To sum up: budget $300 for the fans, $500 for the radiator, and $800 - $1000 for the FMIC kit and then another $400 for a retune. A good alcohol kit runs from $400 (Snow) to $600 (Alkycontrol). And the preceding assumes you provide your own labor for the installations and have upgraded the fuel delivery system with a higher capacity fuel pump and fuel injectors. IMO start with 60's and don't get talked into 42's.
Get all of that done - then be prepared to shred tires and start breaking things - tranny, driveshaft, rear-end etc. You'll need to upgrade all of these too.
Hindsight is golden. I should have just went out and bought a new Vette instead. But 500 - 600 rwhp is fun and dangerous.
Last edited by dlandsvZ28; 07-07-2007 at 12:35 AM.
07-07-2007, 12:43 AM
#10
Originally Posted by JayplaySS2
Thanks guys. Mike, you getting all this. You buy it, I'll install it. Then add the 100 shot and we race. 
a good stall converter, sticky tires, cam(ms3 or 4 IMO) lt's, nx or tnt kit. 10's.
sorry jay
07-07-2007, 12:47 AM
#11
Originally Posted by Subliminal Hit
Mike,
a good stall converter, sticky tires, cam(ms3 or 4 IMO) lt's, nx or tnt kit. 10's.
sorry jay
a good stall converter, sticky tires, cam(ms3 or 4 IMO) lt's, nx or tnt kit. 10's.
sorry jay
07-09-2007, 08:10 PM
#14
Originally Posted by Got Me SOM
I wouldn't advise spraying a 100 shot on top of 9 lbs of boost on a stock bottom end.
I'll give it 1-2 runs max before you blow a ringland.
I'll give it 1-2 runs max before you blow a ringland.
Excessive pressure can make your rings butt ends and lift a ringland or if you lucky, multiple ringlands.
They will crack right off. Ask me how I know.
07-10-2007, 06:29 AM
#17
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Vortech needs to get off their *** and make the T-trim the head unit that comes with their kit. It fits right in there. Do they wonder why they hardly sell a kit anymore?
07-10-2007, 06:44 AM
#18
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Originally Posted by Got Me SOM
I wouldn't advise spraying a 100 shot on top of 9 lbs of boost on a stock bottom end.
I'll give it 1-2 runs max before you blow a ringland.
I'll give it 1-2 runs max before you blow a ringland.
07-10-2007, 11:54 AM
#20
Just make sure the Vortech is intercooled or methenol. Had a car last week to tune and it only made 40hp more than stock on the 90 degree day because the inlet temp would hit over 150 degree's which caused alot of KR.A procharger at the same boost ussually makes an extra 120-140rwhp on the same day.