02LS1Z28BC

iTrader: (4)

Hello, I have an 02 B4C with (RPO) GU5 (3.23 ratio) and G80 (posi traction limited slip). I want to overhaul the bearings/shims/seals on both the pinion gear and both axles (overhaul kit and axle bearings/seals). Money IS a problem and I hope to not have to replace the crush sleeve (seeing as some have said it takes 400ft/lbs to set this right). Can I reuse the old crush sleeve and forgo the high torque part of this overhaul? I will be reusing the ring and pinion but hope to replace both the forward and rear pinion bearings and races. Are all bearings/races the same thickness (if so then I might be able to reuse the crush sleeve). Anyway, I am having a lot of movement in the front pinion bearing (its not the u-joint) and some clunking and growl. I figure if I overhaul I should be able to cover all bases unless the pinion or ring gears are damaged. I will not know any of these things until I put the car on stands and open it up. I have been driving the car regularly and gingerly (a friend said rear ends take a helluva beating and mine didn't sound too bad but that damn front pinion shaft movement and clunking has me concerned). As a footnote, it was over 14 oz low on rear fluid when I got the car in june. I sucked a lot of the old fluid out replacing it with the synthetic oil recommended. I also did add the 4 onces of additive when I changed a lot of the old nasty fluid, I just rechecked it and its still at its level (to the plug hole), with no leaking or staining on the concrete slab where its parked.

02LS1Z28BC

iTrader: (4)

Is this the right forum for my questions?

Starion

iTrader: (5)

Overhauling the rear and re-using the crush sleeve is a bad idea from what I've read. You can buy a solid spacer instead of a crush sleeve that I don't think needs anywhere near 400ft/lbs to set. If you do it yourself I'd bet money you'll end up with noisy gears without the proper equipment.

DMONEY06

iTrader: (2)

yea get a new crush sleeve and a bearing kit

camaroguy26

iTrader: (21)

the crush sleeve HAS to be replaced unless you're just replacing the pinion seal but even then it's still a critical process to get it bolted and torqued down correctly. I've tried it, don't do it. reuse the old shims if you aren't replacing the gears. the shims have no wear to them at all so they will still be good, that is unless someone put new ones in and didn't use the right thicknesses, but if they're stock ones use them again definately. I replaced all my bearings and seals and reused my gears and the same shims, and also did check backlash and gear pattern to make sure it was still seating right which it is. The bearings are pretty hard to pull off, I even had a press I used and it was still really difficult. It's doable but use patience and a lot of sweat. It might not even be a bad idea though to take the carrier and pinion to a shop to have them do the bearings for you, it shouldn't be more than an hour's labor. So changing bearings and seals in a rearend overall is a very simple task anyone with the right tools or help can do. While you're in there you should replace the carrier bearing cap bolts with studs, it's 20 bucks of insurance. As for the crush sleeve, yes it does take 400 lbft but there's a couple tricks. One is to crush the sleeve prior to installation. But if you do this only crush it a minimal amount, this method is only to begin the process as the start of it is the hardest part so only crush it maybe .005 or so. Vices work good if it's strong enough, I actually broke my dad's vise trying this but it was over 20 years old and beat on a lot lol. Some shops just use their impact wrench and once the sleeve is crushed and the pinion/yoke is tight they call it good, but my compressor wasn't big enough for the job. I ended up putting the carrier in and using pry bars to hold onto the carrier as I used my foot to crush the sleeve lol. it really did take a LOT of force. I stopped once everything was tight and there was no play and I've put a few thousand miles on the car since with no problems or noises whatsoever. Hope this helps ya and good luck with the install! For bearings get a kit with Timkens from a sponsor. They include carrier/pinion bearings, carrier/pinion shims if u need them, crush sleeve, pinion seal, cover seal, loctite, and new ring gear bolts, and a new yoke nut which you need to replace also. don't forget to loctite every bolt and nut!

camaroguy26

iTrader: (21)

oh yeah the solid spacer's are nice, but must be set up with precision, the crush sleeve has more lenience. stay with the crush sleeve even though it takes more work

COOKIE MONSTER

iTrader: (5)

I'm done "F"ing around, I'm on a quest for a 9"

02LS1Z28BC

iTrader: (4)

Starion: I already have a lot of noise... Thanks though, I had not heard of a "solid spacer" before. How hard are they to set up?

Dmoney: Thanks, seems new it is and I want to go ahead and use a new one after reading the replys from you n camaroguy26...

Camaroguy26: Valuable input, especially about the vise/precrush thing. Given I have a lot of yoke/ujoint play I thought that my front (yoke side) bearing was toast. I figured if that bearing was toast, the rear one might also be toast. If the bearings pinion bearings are toast, I figure the races are as well.

I wonder how much the sleeve actually crushes? Can you estimate how much torque will be needed after the sleeve is crushed (started) in a vise? Also, any tricks to get the bearing sets off both the pinion and carrier? I was bantering around heating up the bearings to remove them, then cooling down the pinion shaft and carrier with CO2 while warming up the bearings in new oil hoping they will slide right on. Has anyone done this or have a better idea when you don't have a bearing press? Keep it coming, there is a lot of experience out there!

1bdtram: why rant, I don't want or have the $ to change out the rear. I'm glad you do though. looks like you've put a lot of $ in yours. I on the other hand have extremely limited resources (and money). I would love to be able to say "I did it" and credit helpful people who've been there done that with regards to doing it themselves.

Sure would like some more tips before I order the overhaul kit and the axle bearings (like best kit, bearings, and the most economical shipping if its not local to Sumter South Carolina 29150).

Thanks folks!!!

camaroguy26

iTrader: (21)

I got my kit from drivelinesolutions with new gears. it was a packaged deal but I never put the gears in. came with everything including timken bearings which most people say are the best. for the crush sleeve... measure your old one to get an idea of what the new one should be at, but don't crush it as much, I don't know the actual torque though sorry.

getting bearings off is the tricky part, use a LOT of patience!! I guess the easiest way without a press is cutting off the bearing retainer to get to the inner race and using a 3-jaw puller. You'll have to get some metal to set up the puller right though since the carrier is hollow and the puller won't reach the pinion bearing. or carefully cut and chisel the inner races off. A shop should be able to do it quickly and cheaply for you if you just take them the pinion/carrier. To put them on heat the bearings up on a hot plate or stove or oven for an hour or so, and put the carrier and pinion in the freezer or a cooler with dry ice overnight. the bearings should slip right on, usually not needing persuasion but you can lightly tap on it with a hammer to help. the outer races slip right onto the carrier, but the pinion's are tapped out from the housing with a punch. and tap the new ones in, I used the old ones against the new ones so I wouldn't ding the new ones up, be sure all bearings and races are seated fully!

02LS1Z28BC

iTrader: (4)

camaroguy26, your insight is great! I might just research taking the pinion and carrier downtown and have them pop off the bearings from the carrier and pinion shaft (would hate to **** up either part). I think all I have to watch out for is making sure the pinion spacers are all accounted for (???) before putting on the bearing (also, will cooling the pinion/heating the bearing work for this assembly too?)...

I just love the cooling the carrier and heating the bearings part! I think I can definately handle the races for the pinion gear/shaft in the tail housing. OK, curious, what gears do you have left over (maybe a 3.23?)... I don't wish to change anything from stock, I'm not in it for the screaching tires and exibition driving tickets (can't aford the crime so don't do the offense)... If you have the 3.23, and after dismantling the rear I see it needs a gearset, maybe we could make a deal?

Anyway, thanks for the help so far, when (if) I get everything lined up I'll let you all know how (and if) its progressing. Given my finances and apprehension, it might be a couple months before I get up the $ and nerve to attack this job.

I can do it, I can do it (does clicking my heels together help like it did with Dorothy?)

camaroguy26

iTrader: (21)

sorry I have 3.73's. but even if they were 3.23's you still would have to set up backlash and tooth patterns. Every set is unique. and yeah it works to cool the pinion too to put the bearing on, but you're right make sure that shim is under the bearing before you push it on

02LS1Z28BC

iTrader: (4)

Yeah camaroguy26, I am totally inexperienced in this area. Should I worry the bearings/races thickness would come into play when reassembling? Are all bearings and races the same thickness? I figure this would come into play when the pinion gear comes to match the ring gear. I would remember to place the shim back on the pinion before putting the bearing on but am concerned this (matching the pinion gear to the ring gear) might be different if the thicknesses of different brands of bearings/races. Sounds to me like I need a good micrometer, and document everything, before teardown, so I can be sure during reassembly that they match back up. Of course this all might be academic if the current setup is damaged at either pinion bearing set (front or rear). I am thinking I might need to just open it all up and come back here before buying anything. I do have the time, but just not a lot of $...

camaroguy26

iTrader: (21)

actually someone needs to step in to answer that ? for ya. I honestly didn't measure either sets of bearings when I removed old ones or installed new ones even though I had the caliper. I did hold up them up together for a quick glance and they seemed the exact same so I just threw them in and had no problems. I did recheck backlash and tooth pattern before I buttoned it up though

XX11SECZXX

iTrader: (1)

when you crush your new crush collar you want it tightened down so you have about 2 ft/lbs of rotational drag.

hazard2k

iTrader: (10)

New bearings should have a 35 in/lb preload on them, used bearing more around 15 in/lb.

To remove the old bearings from the carrier, use some wire cutters to cut the bearing cage off. The bearing will fall apart and leave you with only the inner race. Use a dremel cut off wheel and score the bearing back and forth as evenly as possible. The ideal situation is to cut through the race just until you get through it. I have a pretty steady hand and can do this pretty easily. Its not an exact science, and its ok if you go a little too deep, the new bearing will cover it  Once you get most of the way through, the pressure from the bearing being pressed on will actually “pop” and it will split the rest of it. You can then slide it off easily. Do this for both bearings and you are all set.

Another thing on replacing the inner and outer pinion races in the housing. Look into the rear end housing at the races. If looking from the cover side, the race closer to the front of the car (outer pinion bearing) can be removed. There are two slots, one on the left and one on the right of the race. Use a long punch, or a extension and alternate hitting the left and right side of the race until it is out. Now you can go in from the pinion side of the rear end and hit the other race out the same way. Autozone rents a kit for installing bearing races. It’s a set with around 7 or 8 aluminum pieces that fit into the race. The aluminum will not damage the races and is ideal for installing them. Hammer them in until it is bottomed out. You will be able to tell when it is fully seated because it will make a different noise and your hammer will bounce off.

Also, My old pinion bearings and my new ones were not EXACTLY the same. I used my old bearing and grinded down the inside so it would slip on and off the pinion with out a press (for mocking up ONLY). After getting the pinion depth correct with that bearing, I pressed the new bearing on, and it was a different reading, so I ended up having to press it off again anyways. This may have just been because the old one was worn down a little bit.

Good luck with whatever you end up doing!
-Jeff

02LS1Z28BC

iTrader: (4)

Fantastic advice from you guys, I really appreciate it! Some of these tricks are simply great! I'm almost convinced I can do this with only a little bit of trouble.

Going to be a little busy the next couple of days so you may not hear from me but please keep up the thread, I will read everything!

Let me see if I can also post a picture of my car on here.....

And if this worked, here it is. Its one of 320 B4C's in Onyx Black.

Please keep the hints, advice, and tips coming!

02LS1Z28BC

iTrader: (4)

OMG I stepped into this and come out smelling almost decent! I took my car to a place locally that works on F Bodies doing performance upgrades and work. I asked them if they could check a noise I was having, and made an appointment for this morning. After putting it on the lift, the guy said my torque arm bushing was toast. While taking this associated brackets off for it, he noticed my tranny mount toast as well. After scavenging his parts, he found a spare torque arm mount, and a call to a local jobber found the tranny mount. Both new parts in and NO MORE NOISE! Wooohoooo! After about 2 hours on the lift and only about 20 minutes of that involving taking the two mounts out and putting the two mounts in, it cost me $87.92. This shop normally throws out the mounts from customers when they upgrade to poly mounts and bushings, so I lucked out on the torque arm mount. All-in-all, I think I got off very reasonably given the rear end didn't have to be opened up. The guy did say my pinion gear bearing was a little loose, but also said it wasn't that bad.

Big sigh of relief, not to mention the save to my wallet!

Thanks everyone on being patient with me, I really appreciate it a lot!