tt 427 build plan
03-12-2008, 12:48 PM
#1
tt 427 build plan i've searched out the wazoo but i cant seem to find any one setup that's quite like what i'm planning, so what do you think of what i've got in mind for an APS motor:
427 darton sleeved block w/ evans cooling system
lunati pro billet 4" crank and h-beam rods
-17cc dish pistons (around 10:1 SCR for good low boost performance)
afr 225s w/ 72cc chambers and hight lift springs (although i might wait for their new 235s)
gt11 cam
jesel j2k rockers (hardened push rods, morel lifters, blah blah blah)
fast 92/92
QTP oil pump and two piece timing cover
aeromotive fuel system (good to 1200hp)
meth system
zex lsx direct port nitrous system (125hp hit at most, probably only a 75hp tho)
there's plenty of other neat stuff but nothing really all that important for making power. so what do you think?? what am i missing or should i rethink?? its going to be a street car, mostly weekends and sometimes DD, road racing, auto X, NO DRAG STRIP TIME!!!!
427 darton sleeved block w/ evans cooling system
lunati pro billet 4" crank and h-beam rods
-17cc dish pistons (around 10:1 SCR for good low boost performance)
afr 225s w/ 72cc chambers and hight lift springs (although i might wait for their new 235s)
gt11 cam
jesel j2k rockers (hardened push rods, morel lifters, blah blah blah)
fast 92/92
QTP oil pump and two piece timing cover
aeromotive fuel system (good to 1200hp)
meth system
zex lsx direct port nitrous system (125hp hit at most, probably only a 75hp tho)
there's plenty of other neat stuff but nothing really all that important for making power. so what do you think?? what am i missing or should i rethink?? its going to be a street car, mostly weekends and sometimes DD, road racing, auto X, NO DRAG STRIP TIME!!!!
03-12-2008, 12:50 PM
#2
427 darton sleeved block w/ evans cooling system
aeromotive fuel system (good to 1200hp)
03-12-2008, 12:55 PM
#3
Looks good but why build a "boost" motor for a TT system then use 10:1comp? You won't get much boost out of it on pump gas. And if you're doing jesel lifters why a hydro valvetrain setup? Shouldn't you use solid lifters and cam? If it were mine I would do 8.5:1CR and hydro roller setup for the street on pump gas. Sleeved block is good for saving weight, if you don't care about that then go lsx or 6.0L block.
03-12-2008, 01:12 PM
#5
Well lots of serious overkill and wasted money. While I do not believe the naysayers that said the aps standard kit was too small for a 402 or 408 size engine and we have seen JM with his kit go 10.17 at 139mph with only 10psi I do think that the 20gs might be choked some on a bigger 427. Also your costs go up a lot on the 427. You can put out over 1000 engine hp with a good old 6.0 iron block .I would go 370 with stock crank or 408 iron like I just ordered from Canadian Performance. You can see my mod list in my sig. I have gt7 cam already so trying it.
APS had good results with the gt11 but the lift is very high and don't feel like changing fourth gen valve springs every 20 or 30 thousand miles. You don't need morel lifters you shouldn't really be spinning a 408 or 427 up that high anyway. ls7 lifters are fine and cheap..cadillac gm lifters for a bit more money. Going yella terra rockers..supposed to fit nice on the afr heads.Figure 225 heads are more than fine for me.Got 72cc version. Going wiseco pistons,hellfire rings,upgraded piston pins.Compstar crank and rods.Arp studs ,cometic gaskets. 9.5 to 1 ,plan on running alc/meth injection on pump premium.
Lots of arguements on compression ratio. 10 to 1 is considered pretty high .Most everyone on boosted cars runs 8.5 to 9.5. 9.0 would seem a good pump gas compromise. Some say they notice the car getting doggy when compression goes much under 9.0 some say they don't notice. Remember a big 408 or 427 would have lots of torque down low anyway. My old 400 cube 7.5 to 1 trans am has lots of bottom snap even NA and my talons seem to do fine with factory compressions of 7.5 to 8.0 to 1.
Higher compression will help spool up and make more power.Think its 5 % for each point or half point? I also figure should be able to hit my power goals of 850rwhp at maybe 15psi with 9.5 to 1. Rather do the power at 15 than 20.
I am running fast 90/NW 90. Fast works well on aps test mule and have seen good article on 1000 hp engine on afr site linked from magazine project that runs the fast. Fact second article on afr site showed car that ran carb type intake but then said they made more power with fast 90. The new 92 should be fine of course.Few upgrades to it.
I also plan on direct port kit for small amounts of boost but was a bit worried if the fast would leak boost out around the nozzles. its not a metal intake after all and just don't seem it would seal that great around the nozzles .So hoping to talk to someone that is running the direct port fast setup with boost.
APS might bring out there bigger wheels in standard turbos.Don't sound like they are putting out Gt35 R kit or upgrade opton anymore and if they do it will add quite a bit more to the price.
You should decide what your goals really are. Mine are 850rwhp with 408,fast 90/NW90,afr 225s, underdrive and gt7 or will go bigger cam if need be. 1000rwhp or so with direct port. Anything much over 600rwhp is a big handful on the street and JMs car is goign to be running 9s shortly at likely 11 or 12psi at over 140mph thru an auto.Thats plenty fast enough for me.
APS had good results with the gt11 but the lift is very high and don't feel like changing fourth gen valve springs every 20 or 30 thousand miles. You don't need morel lifters you shouldn't really be spinning a 408 or 427 up that high anyway. ls7 lifters are fine and cheap..cadillac gm lifters for a bit more money. Going yella terra rockers..supposed to fit nice on the afr heads.Figure 225 heads are more than fine for me.Got 72cc version. Going wiseco pistons,hellfire rings,upgraded piston pins.Compstar crank and rods.Arp studs ,cometic gaskets. 9.5 to 1 ,plan on running alc/meth injection on pump premium.
Lots of arguements on compression ratio. 10 to 1 is considered pretty high .Most everyone on boosted cars runs 8.5 to 9.5. 9.0 would seem a good pump gas compromise. Some say they notice the car getting doggy when compression goes much under 9.0 some say they don't notice. Remember a big 408 or 427 would have lots of torque down low anyway. My old 400 cube 7.5 to 1 trans am has lots of bottom snap even NA and my talons seem to do fine with factory compressions of 7.5 to 8.0 to 1.
Higher compression will help spool up and make more power.Think its 5 % for each point or half point? I also figure should be able to hit my power goals of 850rwhp at maybe 15psi with 9.5 to 1. Rather do the power at 15 than 20.
I am running fast 90/NW 90. Fast works well on aps test mule and have seen good article on 1000 hp engine on afr site linked from magazine project that runs the fast. Fact second article on afr site showed car that ran carb type intake but then said they made more power with fast 90. The new 92 should be fine of course.Few upgrades to it.
I also plan on direct port kit for small amounts of boost but was a bit worried if the fast would leak boost out around the nozzles. its not a metal intake after all and just don't seem it would seal that great around the nozzles .So hoping to talk to someone that is running the direct port fast setup with boost.
APS might bring out there bigger wheels in standard turbos.Don't sound like they are putting out Gt35 R kit or upgrade opton anymore and if they do it will add quite a bit more to the price.
You should decide what your goals really are. Mine are 850rwhp with 408,fast 90/NW90,afr 225s, underdrive and gt7 or will go bigger cam if need be. 1000rwhp or so with direct port. Anything much over 600rwhp is a big handful on the street and JMs car is goign to be running 9s shortly at likely 11 or 12psi at over 140mph thru an auto.Thats plenty fast enough for me.
03-12-2008, 01:14 PM
#6
Oh the fast and high boost seems to be mostly a myth. Found many examples of fast being run to 20 psi and doubt most guys need to run higher than that. The aps test mule runs to like 20psi on their fast 90/90 combo.Past 20 ok maybe stick with ls6 or one of those carb converted intakes.
03-12-2008, 01:22 PM
#7
Sorry didn't read your post that good. So a street car like mine..? Ok even more overkill. Don't need that crank either. compstar or stock 6.0 crank or eagle should be fine.
No fancy rods needed either. For fuel system aps has theirs which looks nice and neat and Nasty makes some nice setups with custom tank.Not sure why you want two piece timing cover unless you like swapping cams. And a melliing or tweaked stock oil pump should be more than fine.
Shouldn't need any evans cooling stuff. Might go with better water pump like new edelbrock and mabye a better rad. We will find out more how the aps cars cool over this summer.
You didn't say if you car is auto or m6. If m6 you of course need a good clutch..seems to be a few choices there.I am hoping my tex twin is up to the task.Aps think said they had not very good luck with their tex twins. I may go tex triple ,or may try another make like spec twin or may go auto like 480le. See how it goes.If you have a 460 its going to need beefing up for sure.Even t56 is likely going to need beefing up.And of course your stock rear end. Spend the money where you need to not on some unncessary overkill stuff like your initial list.
Also don't think its good idea to bore the 6.0 to 427 for boosted applications. If you are set on the 427 then guess go to the LSX block but again its overkill as is that displacement.
I would expect the 427 to spool up the standard APS turbos super quick bet might hit full boost by 2500 with 427. But it might lay down bad past 6000 although that might not matter. Many factory turbo cars purposely undersize the turbos to give quicker spool for the useable rpm ranges and give up some top end performance. Sometimes it a good trade off.
No fancy rods needed either. For fuel system aps has theirs which looks nice and neat and Nasty makes some nice setups with custom tank.Not sure why you want two piece timing cover unless you like swapping cams. And a melliing or tweaked stock oil pump should be more than fine.
Shouldn't need any evans cooling stuff. Might go with better water pump like new edelbrock and mabye a better rad. We will find out more how the aps cars cool over this summer.
You didn't say if you car is auto or m6. If m6 you of course need a good clutch..seems to be a few choices there.I am hoping my tex twin is up to the task.Aps think said they had not very good luck with their tex twins. I may go tex triple ,or may try another make like spec twin or may go auto like 480le. See how it goes.If you have a 460 its going to need beefing up for sure.Even t56 is likely going to need beefing up.And of course your stock rear end. Spend the money where you need to not on some unncessary overkill stuff like your initial list.
Also don't think its good idea to bore the 6.0 to 427 for boosted applications. If you are set on the 427 then guess go to the LSX block but again its overkill as is that displacement.
I would expect the 427 to spool up the standard APS turbos super quick bet might hit full boost by 2500 with 427. But it might lay down bad past 6000 although that might not matter. Many factory turbo cars purposely undersize the turbos to give quicker spool for the useable rpm ranges and give up some top end performance. Sometimes it a good trade off.
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03-12-2008, 11:12 PM
#8
well its an a4 now but it'll be an m6 by the time it's built. planning on a ram twin or maybe a triple if it comes to that. good lookin out on the fuel system btw. i'm looking for around 600-700hp to the wheels on low boost (8 psi) and 1000+ on higher boost (~15 psi). the qtp two piece cover is only really to accommodate their oil pump. the crank and rods are just for longer life because, at 7k rpms (hence the morel+jesel combo), i just don't want to trust mass produced nodular iron pieces when i could have precision steel instead. and yes, the sleeves are to keep weight down. the drive line is taken care of, and i'm thinking of using the turbos from their ls7 system to compensate for the increased displacement.
03-12-2008, 11:31 PM
#9
Well I guess whatever floats your boat. Its of course your money. I can see some of this stuff if the car was a track car and going to be subject to constant high rpm runs.
You must live in a great place as where I live and we still have some nice open roads ,getting caught these days at speeds much higher than 100mph on public roads is pretty much instant jail.Thank the Fast and Furious movies and stupid ricer kids for that.
I get to play a bit here and there but always have to watch out for Big Brother and do it out of town or in deserted industrial areas and no way could sustain high speeds on the public highway. One reason too is to have any traction at the power levels you want you will need to run et street radials and don't think they are made to sustain very high speeds for very long. They are a track tire. Nitto drag radials that I run also don't have the best speed ratings and would not trust them in sustained high speed use.
And it don't take 1000 hp to be going stupid fast over the speed limit in any city I know of.But hey if you can play and not get nailed go for it. I still build some pretty wild cars as you can see from my sig and am a 50 year old speed freak but its not like it used to be ,where we could just go out of town a mile or so and they even had the quartermile marked out and the muscle car guys would go at it and the cops never bothered us at all. And surprisingly no one was killed in all the years of that. The good old days!
I mostly just looked at the boosted lists and looked at what the fast guys were running. Surpisingly most were running some great times with 6.0 iron blocks ,some even with stock cranks. Some a bit higher compression than you would think. Some with higher gears than are generally recommended,with smaller cams than you would think sometimes also. APS has a nice combo on that built 346. They have the two dynos of the standard and modified base turbos. So figure should be able to hit 850rwhp with a 408 and simlar parts maybe a smaller cam which is better for valvetrain life. And can always just use that small shot to hit 1000rwhp. I don't want to go past 1000rwhp likely ever. Heck 700 or so on the street is plenty..plenty.The higher numbers are mostly for bragging rights but confess its nice to shut some guys up who get big egos with 400rwhp. And of course you say the words..twin turbo..427 and 1000 engine hp that would be a bit intimidating.
I would have went 427 but the extra cost and going to an lsx block is just not an option in my current budget. Maybe get a 427 in my next car..which is likely to be a c6 or c7 but still don't plan on selling my 99ta off.
You must live in a great place as where I live and we still have some nice open roads ,getting caught these days at speeds much higher than 100mph on public roads is pretty much instant jail.Thank the Fast and Furious movies and stupid ricer kids for that.
I get to play a bit here and there but always have to watch out for Big Brother and do it out of town or in deserted industrial areas and no way could sustain high speeds on the public highway. One reason too is to have any traction at the power levels you want you will need to run et street radials and don't think they are made to sustain very high speeds for very long. They are a track tire. Nitto drag radials that I run also don't have the best speed ratings and would not trust them in sustained high speed use.
And it don't take 1000 hp to be going stupid fast over the speed limit in any city I know of.But hey if you can play and not get nailed go for it. I still build some pretty wild cars as you can see from my sig and am a 50 year old speed freak but its not like it used to be ,where we could just go out of town a mile or so and they even had the quartermile marked out and the muscle car guys would go at it and the cops never bothered us at all. And surprisingly no one was killed in all the years of that. The good old days!
I mostly just looked at the boosted lists and looked at what the fast guys were running. Surpisingly most were running some great times with 6.0 iron blocks ,some even with stock cranks. Some a bit higher compression than you would think. Some with higher gears than are generally recommended,with smaller cams than you would think sometimes also. APS has a nice combo on that built 346. They have the two dynos of the standard and modified base turbos. So figure should be able to hit 850rwhp with a 408 and simlar parts maybe a smaller cam which is better for valvetrain life. And can always just use that small shot to hit 1000rwhp. I don't want to go past 1000rwhp likely ever. Heck 700 or so on the street is plenty..plenty.The higher numbers are mostly for bragging rights but confess its nice to shut some guys up who get big egos with 400rwhp. And of course you say the words..twin turbo..427 and 1000 engine hp that would be a bit intimidating.
I would have went 427 but the extra cost and going to an lsx block is just not an option in my current budget. Maybe get a 427 in my next car..which is likely to be a c6 or c7 but still don't plan on selling my 99ta off.
03-13-2008, 01:14 AM
#10
well...money won't really be the problem, but, like you've said, finding a good place to go fast is. i only wish i could have seen those good old days..."oh, brave new world"...anywho, i plan on running strong street tires, prob something in 315 on 18s. and yes, you are right, part of the reason i want the setup i want is vanity...but hey, horse power numbers are like shakes at the urinal, at some point you're just doing it for fun lol. i think a higher compression 427 will give me lots of power and especially lots of low end grunt (ergo, good street driveability) without having to boost to the moon. i plan on this being a 93 octane motor on low boost (turns out that a 10.6:1 rotating assembly based on a 67cc head becomes a ~9.8:1 motor with a 72cc head) and a 93 octane + methanol motor on high boost. if everything works out the way i'm thinking it will, my only problem will be finding enough space for a few GALLONS of methanol (road racing really burns thru the alky hehe).
03-15-2008, 01:56 AM
#11
Launching!
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Well lots of serious overkill and wasted money. While I do not believe the naysayers that said the aps standard kit was too small for a 402 or 408 size engine and we have seen JM with his kit go 10.17 at 139mph with only 10psi I do think that the 20gs might be choked some on a bigger 427. Also your costs go up a lot on the 427. You can put out over 1000 engine hp with a good old 6.0 iron block .I would go 370 with stock crank or 408 iron like I just ordered from Canadian Performance. You can see my mod list in my sig. I have gt7 cam already so trying it.
APS had good results with the gt11 but the lift is very high and don't feel like changing fourth gen valve springs every 20 or 30 thousand miles. You don't need morel lifters you shouldn't really be spinning a 408 or 427 up that high anyway. ls7 lifters are fine and cheap..cadillac gm lifters for a bit more money. Going yella terra rockers..supposed to fit nice on the afr heads.Figure 225 heads are more than fine for me.Got 72cc version. Going wiseco pistons,hellfire rings,upgraded piston pins.Compstar crank and rods.Arp studs ,cometic gaskets. 9.5 to 1 ,plan on running alc/meth injection on pump premium.
Lots of arguements on compression ratio. 10 to 1 is considered pretty high .Most everyone on boosted cars runs 8.5 to 9.5. 9.0 would seem a good pump gas compromise. Some say they notice the car getting doggy when compression goes much under 9.0 some say they don't notice. Remember a big 408 or 427 would have lots of torque down low anyway. My old 400 cube 7.5 to 1 trans am has lots of bottom snap even NA and my talons seem to do fine with factory compressions of 7.5 to 8.0 to 1.
Higher compression will help spool up and make more power.Think its 5 % for each point or half point? I also figure should be able to hit my power goals of 850rwhp at maybe 15psi with 9.5 to 1. Rather do the power at 15 than 20.
I am running fast 90/NW 90. Fast works well on aps test mule and have seen good article on 1000 hp engine on afr site linked from magazine project that runs the fast. Fact second article on afr site showed car that ran carb type intake but then said they made more power with fast 90. The new 92 should be fine of course.Few upgrades to it.
I also plan on direct port kit for small amounts of boost but was a bit worried if the fast would leak boost out around the nozzles. its not a metal intake after all and just don't seem it would seal that great around the nozzles .So hoping to talk to someone that is running the direct port fast setup with boost.
APS might bring out there bigger wheels in standard turbos.Don't sound like they are putting out Gt35 R kit or upgrade opton anymore and if they do it will add quite a bit more to the price.
You should decide what your goals really are. Mine are 850rwhp with 408,fast 90/NW90,afr 225s, underdrive and gt7 or will go bigger cam if need be. 1000rwhp or so with direct port. Anything much over 600rwhp is a big handful on the street and JMs car is goign to be running 9s shortly at likely 11 or 12psi at over 140mph thru an auto.Thats plenty fast enough for me.
APS had good results with the gt11 but the lift is very high and don't feel like changing fourth gen valve springs every 20 or 30 thousand miles. You don't need morel lifters you shouldn't really be spinning a 408 or 427 up that high anyway. ls7 lifters are fine and cheap..cadillac gm lifters for a bit more money. Going yella terra rockers..supposed to fit nice on the afr heads.Figure 225 heads are more than fine for me.Got 72cc version. Going wiseco pistons,hellfire rings,upgraded piston pins.Compstar crank and rods.Arp studs ,cometic gaskets. 9.5 to 1 ,plan on running alc/meth injection on pump premium.
Lots of arguements on compression ratio. 10 to 1 is considered pretty high .Most everyone on boosted cars runs 8.5 to 9.5. 9.0 would seem a good pump gas compromise. Some say they notice the car getting doggy when compression goes much under 9.0 some say they don't notice. Remember a big 408 or 427 would have lots of torque down low anyway. My old 400 cube 7.5 to 1 trans am has lots of bottom snap even NA and my talons seem to do fine with factory compressions of 7.5 to 8.0 to 1.
Higher compression will help spool up and make more power.Think its 5 % for each point or half point? I also figure should be able to hit my power goals of 850rwhp at maybe 15psi with 9.5 to 1. Rather do the power at 15 than 20.
I am running fast 90/NW 90. Fast works well on aps test mule and have seen good article on 1000 hp engine on afr site linked from magazine project that runs the fast. Fact second article on afr site showed car that ran carb type intake but then said they made more power with fast 90. The new 92 should be fine of course.Few upgrades to it.
I also plan on direct port kit for small amounts of boost but was a bit worried if the fast would leak boost out around the nozzles. its not a metal intake after all and just don't seem it would seal that great around the nozzles .So hoping to talk to someone that is running the direct port fast setup with boost.
APS might bring out there bigger wheels in standard turbos.Don't sound like they are putting out Gt35 R kit or upgrade opton anymore and if they do it will add quite a bit more to the price.
You should decide what your goals really are. Mine are 850rwhp with 408,fast 90/NW90,afr 225s, underdrive and gt7 or will go bigger cam if need be. 1000rwhp or so with direct port. Anything much over 600rwhp is a big handful on the street and JMs car is goign to be running 9s shortly at likely 11 or 12psi at over 140mph thru an auto.Thats plenty fast enough for me.
good luck!
03-15-2008, 03:13 PM
#12
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I own something very close to what your looking to do.
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show...1966966&page=2
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show...1966966&page=2