TTopJohn

Okay, I know "drivable" is a VERY subjective term.

But I can't help but wonder - since a 224/224 112 cam, which once was on the large side, is baby stuff compared to what everyone on the first page of threads in this section is running,

Have there been advances in tuning to correspond with this move toward bigger and bigger cams? Or are y'all just becoming more tolerant of cars that can't idle along at a couple mph without touching the gas

Even my virtually bone stock car can buck a little when starting out in 1st from a stop if you aren't smooth with the gas and clutch. I have to wonder what a 227 or larger cammed car on stock cubes is doing.

Country Boy

iTrader: (24)

My G5X2 cammed car runs just fine actually. No hot start problems, no cold start problem, just needs some fine tuning on the tune. It only bucks below 1500 rpm in first gear. I can drive down the interstate in 6th at 1500 and not one problem. Im loving it!!! Its one bad ****!

Tin Indian

QUOTE: "Okay, I know "drivable" is a VERY subjective term".

It sure is subjective, but I can tell you; These 230+ duration cams in an [A4 car] with no PCM programming is not what I consider "drivable". At least not enjoyable in a daily driver in heavy traffic.

Well, to each his own. I will stick with my TR220. I am not going to get on the "My dick" ... I mean, "My Cam Is Bigger Than Yours" bandwagon!

General Jack

iTrader: (4)

Good question, I'm wondering the same myself...

TTopJohn

Good to hear! So, you have an M6 with some tuning? I wonder if the "fine tuning on the tune" will get rid of the bucking/surging below 1500?

The thing I'm worried about, is my driving style requires a good bit of time under 1500rpm - stop sign to stop sign around campus, driving through the apartment complex, cramped parking garages, etc....

TTopJohn

I agree with you - if you want a certain amount of drivability (i.e. This car is a primary mode of transportation drivability) it's going to be easier to accomplish with an M6 and Tuning.

I need something that can creep uphill in a parking garage at 1000 rpm if need be. Can tuning let the car do that with X size cam and stock cubes?

KGSloan

my car drive just fine almost all the time. i will occasionally get a little bucking in first gear at low rpms, but other than that there arn't any problems. i live in a college town and all i do most the time is creep around (fastest i ever go is about 30mph in town, and i am constantly driving only 50 feet at a time between stoplights). creeping around campus and appartments isn't bad at all. you can't sit there with it in first gear, but you let the clutch out to go and give it some gas and it works fine. then, when you need to coast, push the clutch in and let it idle. i love to hear these big cams idle, they sound beautiful. these big cams with a good tune are still pretty driveable.

soundengineer

iTrader: (16)

I have the MTI X1 cam to put in in 2 weeks..... its a 230 with 112lsa.....I've been told that I will have no problems with it(I have an M6)...and tuning will produce MONDO Horsepower.

Country Boy

iTrader: (24)

I do have a 6 speed. Its a mail order tune to get it in the ballpark and not exact for my mods. I also have a brand new motor Im breaking in also, so I cant really jump on it to get it to fully learn and I just got my a/c back today so it needs to learn the idle with the a/c. I still have some bugs to work out, but it drives just fine. It only bucks sometimes when its NOT under load, like trying to idle in first. If I put a load on it, its just fine in the low rpms in first.

I love my setup, it sounds incredible. I have alot of people complementing on it

Special K '01 WS6

iTrader: (2)

Mine is 100% driveable I don't have any problems at all I also have a M6 with dyno tuning as well though 231/237 cam

miner_49

Basically, it sounds like if you tend to sit in stop and go traffic where you can barely come off the clutch before having to shove it back down or if you are allowing the idle to move the car forward in 1st while riding the brake because of the slow traffic speed ...

I commute through that type of traffic for about 20 min. aday. But there are days when there are major accidents/raining etc. that I could be sitting in that for over an hour at a time.

You can forget about these large cams as they are not fun to drive in these circumstances. While I'm sure you can drive them in these situations, if you did this day after day, after a few months you would really start to hate your car. That is what driveability means. If you are in a situation where you can put it in 2nd gear or only have to deal with low rpms for a few minutes, you can get away with a less friendly cam, but that still doesn't mean its very driveable.

TTopJohn

Bingo - this is pretty close to my definition of drivable. I like that with the stock cam, I can let the clutch out without touching the gas pedal and the car goes. Or more often, barely breathe on the gas while letting the clutch out. Good for maunvering in tight confines, or stop n' go traffic. Or cruising the strip in Panama City

So, I wonder how big a cam you can run and accomplish this with an M6 with LS1 Edit dyno wideband o2 tuning? I'm going to guess that 224/224/112 is the outer limit.

Chicago Z06

the wider the lobe center also gives you drivability. my X2 is on a 114 and i do a lot of traffice driving with no issues for me.. only a little surging/ bucking when cold and not drvien properly... ie slpooy clutch engagement whe nyou and the car is not quite awake in the morning.. but all in all VERY drivable for my taste..

Wes

gator's 99TA

iTrader: (2)

i personally consider my cam and tranny combo on teh ragged edge of streetable but it does start up with sometimes no touch of the gas pedal and sometimes a bit of a touch to get the car to initally find its idle. if you have to question if the cam is too big for a daily driver, it probably is. i can say that there is nothing more frustrating having your only car not run well, esp if it is pretty new car. i would listen and get a ride in someone else's big cam car to see real life. i think it is complete BS when i hear these guys with HUGE 232/240 cams and say they idle near stock on these motors. it is rough. i know it. once my car finds its idle, takes about 15 seconds or less, it is smooth, but there is some bucking (automatic here). to me, anything over 224-226 range in an MN6 car is gonna be some trouble. my friend had a TR 224 MN6 combo car and it was SMOOOOOTH. mine, on the other hand is not even close. i run a 230/230 .573 111 lsa on a automatic car. mine is not a daily driver anymore. tuning will make a tremendous difference over the days we had only Hypercrap. good luck!

99 Black Bird T/A

iTrader: (4)

I hate that kind of driving with a M6 car, much rather have an A4 if having to deal with that lot's of stuff like that. With that said, my 224 XE-R is on a custom LSA to help idle, drivability, emissions etc. It's about as nicely mannered as the stock cam once it's warmed up since it's tuned. I also have 4.10's which help make the car easier to drive with the 224 cam. Car does fine driving in Charlotte, but I don't like being stuck in traffic for long periods in a M6 even with a stock cam. I would probably have went with a TR220 on a 114 LSA if faced with traffic jams on a daily basis something similar.

Are you going to do gears?

Ragtop 99

iTrader: (7)

I had a 232/236 and I found the issue was just as country boy described it. You can always get them to idle, even in A4 as long as you have a high stall converter so you can raise the idle without fighting the converter.

Driving in lower gears in the 1100 - 1400 rpm range had cam surge. This was a problem for me in 3rd gear lock-up around town. If I tuned it out with more idle air, I got the cruise control effect. Maybe I could have fixed it with the VE tables a bit, but I didn't know about that at that time.

If you have an M6 it is easier to control your rpms and stay out of the very low rpms. With an A4 you end up with some high lock up speeds to avoid the surge which can get tiring with a 4000 stall converter.

I would also point out that higher compression and the better flowing low lift heads available today also help improve drivability. I know a couple people who had cammed cars that found their idle improved from adding heads.

Cliff

iTrader: (19)

My cam is 237/242 572/595 @ 112 and with Ed Wright tuning. The car hates stop and go traffic and start ups. Runs fine when I am driving. After the idle was raised to 1000 rpm's I can sit at a stop light and not have to rev to keep it running. Very strong lope below 1000 rpm's. Loves too buck in lst/2nd/3rd gear if I am driving at low rpm's. For the street I would not recommend this cam but for racing it is great!!!

JF WS6

Cliff,

Wow that's a big cam for a 346" motor. Got any info. you could list as far as dyno #'s or anything with your mods? I'm just curious as to how well a cam that big in a 346 performs. I bet it has a crazy top end.

Cliff

iTrader: (19)

Sorry, I seen after you wanted cams sizes with 346 motor. I have a 396 I rebuilt. Long story.

VINCE

iTrader: (1)

I do not have a problem with cam surge? How often are you at 1100rpm? I usually cruise around town in 5th in with my 4.10's. That is between 1100 and 1500 and I have noticed no such cam surge. I have a FM-9 cam.. 232/236 lsa 114..