Re: BlackNite post about LS1 Motorsports
04-18-2004, 12:32 PM
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Re: BlackNite post about LS1 Motorsports I just read the thread. Two sides to every story.
First of all, the order was placed online and we only ever received ONE ORDER. We DID NOT BILL HIS CREDIT CARD OURSELVES EVER. He was notified that we did not have TNT kits in stock, and that it would take about 2-3 weeks to get delivered from TNT. He was okay with that, but later called back and said he noticed that his cc was billed twice. Penny asked him if he could fax us a copy of his cc bill so we could quickly verify it and take care of it. He said he would, but never did. He then called back Friday and started telling Penny that "HE BETTER GET HIS F'ING MONEY BACK OR ELSE!!!". She told him not to speak to her that way, he continued, she hung up. Penny callled our cc company to have them do a search on his cc number and did indeed verify that it was billed twice...it was ordered online and then re-ordered online within 1 minute of the original order. They said that it's common when that happens that the vendor would only get one order. That's why it says "DO NOT HIT THE SUBMIT BUTTON MORE THAN ONCE OR YOU MAY BE DOUBLE-BILLED". The online merchant provider is MIVA Merchant Services....if he doesn't like the way their software works, he can complain directly to them also.
His "lawyer" then called Penny and asked her if we were going to refund his money. She said yes, it would be refunded by the end of the day now that the double billing had been verified. He asked when his "client" would have their money, and Penny told him probably within 7-10 business days (though the law allows up to 30 business days). Keep in mind, as soon as we run the credit, it is pulled from our account at midnight of the same day. From there, we have no control over when his bank posts the credit. His lawyer said that since "we took the money immediately, we should refund it immediately". I explained to him that that was exactly what we were doing, but he wanted the money in their account by the next day. I told him that wasn't possible, and he asked me if we were a "backwoods hillbilly cousin-marrying business that ***** people for a living"? Really sounds like a lawyer to me...
. I hung up on him. He called back 3 more times, we exchanged more insults, and I hung up. The refund was ran and it's now in the bank's hands.
Regarding the "other" billed and unreceived items....I need to know specifics privately and I will take care of them. Though I assume that most, if not all, were from the problem we had with our old credit card provider (Card Service International), who held MANY people's money from us. Both in the form of online orders we never received money for, as well as refunds we issued that were pulled from our account, but never returned to the customer. We have been in legal preceedings with them since December. They were in fact just found guilty in court for the same illegal practices, along with Humboldt Bank of America, and sued for 3.5million dollars in punitive damages. This is public record and can be found by anyone interested.
PM me if you have any specific matter to discuss.
First of all, the order was placed online and we only ever received ONE ORDER. We DID NOT BILL HIS CREDIT CARD OURSELVES EVER. He was notified that we did not have TNT kits in stock, and that it would take about 2-3 weeks to get delivered from TNT. He was okay with that, but later called back and said he noticed that his cc was billed twice. Penny asked him if he could fax us a copy of his cc bill so we could quickly verify it and take care of it. He said he would, but never did. He then called back Friday and started telling Penny that "HE BETTER GET HIS F'ING MONEY BACK OR ELSE!!!". She told him not to speak to her that way, he continued, she hung up. Penny callled our cc company to have them do a search on his cc number and did indeed verify that it was billed twice...it was ordered online and then re-ordered online within 1 minute of the original order. They said that it's common when that happens that the vendor would only get one order. That's why it says "DO NOT HIT THE SUBMIT BUTTON MORE THAN ONCE OR YOU MAY BE DOUBLE-BILLED". The online merchant provider is MIVA Merchant Services....if he doesn't like the way their software works, he can complain directly to them also.
His "lawyer" then called Penny and asked her if we were going to refund his money. She said yes, it would be refunded by the end of the day now that the double billing had been verified. He asked when his "client" would have their money, and Penny told him probably within 7-10 business days (though the law allows up to 30 business days). Keep in mind, as soon as we run the credit, it is pulled from our account at midnight of the same day. From there, we have no control over when his bank posts the credit. His lawyer said that since "we took the money immediately, we should refund it immediately". I explained to him that that was exactly what we were doing, but he wanted the money in their account by the next day. I told him that wasn't possible, and he asked me if we were a "backwoods hillbilly cousin-marrying business that ***** people for a living"? Really sounds like a lawyer to me...
. I hung up on him. He called back 3 more times, we exchanged more insults, and I hung up. The refund was ran and it's now in the bank's hands.Regarding the "other" billed and unreceived items....I need to know specifics privately and I will take care of them. Though I assume that most, if not all, were from the problem we had with our old credit card provider (Card Service International), who held MANY people's money from us. Both in the form of online orders we never received money for, as well as refunds we issued that were pulled from our account, but never returned to the customer. We have been in legal preceedings with them since December. They were in fact just found guilty in court for the same illegal practices, along with Humboldt Bank of America, and sued for 3.5million dollars in punitive damages. This is public record and can be found by anyone interested.
PM me if you have any specific matter to discuss.
04-18-2004, 10:23 PM
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Well I guess I should get my flame suit on, here's been my experience:
On 4/4 I ordered some MSD Wires and NGK plugs, everything looks normal. On 4/5 I get an automated email with a tracking number and I'm all happy and such. I check the tracking # a coupla days later and it says "Billing information recieved". I'm a little curious about this but let it slide. A week later still no change. I email them and call them as well.
My personal experience was that Penny was very courteous on the phone and gave me a tracking number (went home and checked it and it was the same crap) So next day I replied to her email asking her to check it and see what it says, and to maybe check and see if my shipment got left on their shipping dock.
Well next day I check the tracking number and it's on the way
I got it two days later.
My only complaint was that I ordered on 4/4 and it shipped on 4/14
but other than that I did get my merchandise. It would have been nice if they could have figured out why it took so long.
I'm not trying to bash QMP or support them. I'm just posting my personal experience. I'm undecided on if I'll buy from them again after reading some other posts but I'll have to see how it plays out.
On 4/4 I ordered some MSD Wires and NGK plugs, everything looks normal. On 4/5 I get an automated email with a tracking number and I'm all happy and such. I check the tracking # a coupla days later and it says "Billing information recieved". I'm a little curious about this but let it slide. A week later still no change. I email them and call them as well.
My personal experience was that Penny was very courteous on the phone and gave me a tracking number (went home and checked it and it was the same crap) So next day I replied to her email asking her to check it and see what it says, and to maybe check and see if my shipment got left on their shipping dock.
Well next day I check the tracking number and it's on the way
I got it two days later. My only complaint was that I ordered on 4/4 and it shipped on 4/14
but other than that I did get my merchandise. It would have been nice if they could have figured out why it took so long.I'm not trying to bash QMP or support them. I'm just posting my personal experience. I'm undecided on if I'll buy from them again after reading some other posts but I'll have to see how it plays out.
04-18-2004, 11:04 PM
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We normally ship all orders within 24-48 hours. I don't know what the specific reason for the delay on your order was (you should have received an email about it, but apparently didn't). I do know that we were out of TR6's for about a week, but we normally have about 20-30 sets of both the plug wires and plugs on hand at all times. I never said we don't make mistakes, and I do sincerely apologize for the delay. I don't think anyone will flame you, you definitely have the right to complain. We apparently dropped the ball.
I will try and make sure it doesn't happen to anyone else.
I will try and make sure it doesn't happen to anyone else.
04-19-2004, 03:19 PM
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A word of advice. You better read before you post! (I'm done putting up with false claims and slanderous statements that injure our business)
As upheld by the US Supreme Court:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
LIBEL ON THE INTERNET
Internet users have been "flaming" others on Internet e-mail, news groups and in Chat lines for years. For those of you who are new to the Internet, "flaming" [as defined in Eric Raymond's Hacker's Dictionary] means posting messages "intended to insult and provoke". In other words, someone posts a message for others to read which insults and/or provokes readers against another person or company.
People and companies are now suing these "flame" posters and/or the Internet site host for Libel. Before we look at some of these lawsuits, let me explain what is legally defined as Libel.
DEFINITION: Libel is the publication of a false statement, (and is not a privileged communication) which injures one's business or personal reputation.
A plaintiff who sues for Libel must prove all of the above and be able to demonstrate some type of resulting damage. This could include being shunned by friends and associates, inability to obtain work because potential employers believed the false accusations. Some states allow for a jury to assess damages based generally on reputational harm.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Statements like these:
1. "LS1 Motorsports are theives"
2. "They SUCK and I advise everyone to NEVER do business with these thieves!!!!"
3. "They bill your account before they ship or even stock something you order"
4. "I'm suing your *** for 3 times the amount, and I will file fraud charges for theft as well!!!" ****That's a REALLY bold statement there. Hope you plan to back it up.
5. "His name is Rob and he rob's people for a living"
Blacknite383 - I hope your lawyer is as good as you think he is. You may need him VERY soon. I've printed off everything that was posted and fax'd it over to our lawyer this morning. Since we've already got him suing the credit card company, I figure it wouldn't be that much trouble to go ahead and file a "Libel Lawsuit" as well.
At last count, there were 1420 views of that thread. I believe we have quite a case here that we can prove without a doubt that our business was in fact falsely accused and suffered potential damages. In fact, if there ever was an open and shut case, I believe we have one here.
As upheld by the US Supreme Court:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
LIBEL ON THE INTERNET
Internet users have been "flaming" others on Internet e-mail, news groups and in Chat lines for years. For those of you who are new to the Internet, "flaming" [as defined in Eric Raymond's Hacker's Dictionary] means posting messages "intended to insult and provoke". In other words, someone posts a message for others to read which insults and/or provokes readers against another person or company.
People and companies are now suing these "flame" posters and/or the Internet site host for Libel. Before we look at some of these lawsuits, let me explain what is legally defined as Libel.
DEFINITION: Libel is the publication of a false statement, (and is not a privileged communication) which injures one's business or personal reputation.
A plaintiff who sues for Libel must prove all of the above and be able to demonstrate some type of resulting damage. This could include being shunned by friends and associates, inability to obtain work because potential employers believed the false accusations. Some states allow for a jury to assess damages based generally on reputational harm.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Statements like these:
1. "LS1 Motorsports are theives"
2. "They SUCK and I advise everyone to NEVER do business with these thieves!!!!"
3. "They bill your account before they ship or even stock something you order"
4. "I'm suing your *** for 3 times the amount, and I will file fraud charges for theft as well!!!" ****That's a REALLY bold statement there. Hope you plan to back it up.
5. "His name is Rob and he rob's people for a living"
Blacknite383 - I hope your lawyer is as good as you think he is. You may need him VERY soon. I've printed off everything that was posted and fax'd it over to our lawyer this morning. Since we've already got him suing the credit card company, I figure it wouldn't be that much trouble to go ahead and file a "Libel Lawsuit" as well.
At last count, there were 1420 views of that thread. I believe we have quite a case here that we can prove without a doubt that our business was in fact falsely accused and suffered potential damages. In fact, if there ever was an open and shut case, I believe we have one here.
04-19-2004, 09:10 PM
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Not exactly true. If the part is considered a "Special Order" part, it is perfectly legal to charge for it up front. And in this specific case, the burden was on him as he technically charged his own card himself by ordering it online. Our website clearly states that if you place an order online, your card is automatically billed at that time. We don't force anyone to order online. If he had called to place the order and requested not to be billed at that time, we would have simply done a capture on his cc and billed him once the kit shipped.
The only thing illegal here is his libel post.
The only thing illegal here is his libel post.
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04-19-2004, 10:30 PM
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Just curious but how is he making false claims if your company still has his money and he doesn't have the product? I would have to ask the lawyer of my family, but I always assumed that slander could only be filed if the claims were not true. Does this mean that he lied and that you did actually credit his account for both charges that you put on his card prior to this?
If you could just show that proof, all these problems would be solved and your reputation wouldn't be harmed any more than it already is.
If you could just show that proof, all these problems would be solved and your reputation wouldn't be harmed any more than it already is.
04-20-2004, 08:12 AM
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His statements are lies. He said we are "thieves". His problem wasn't that we wouldn't refund his money, but that we could not refund his money "immediately"...as in "the money would be in his account within 24hrs". That's impossible! We told him that we would run his credit immediatelty, and that it usually takes 7-10 business days for a credit to post, and he had a fit!
He said that "we charged him twice", when in fact, he essentially ordered the kit twice himself by hitting the submit button once, and then again less than a minute later. He stated that we intentionally billed him twice.
He says that I "make a living robbing people". That's another slanderous, libel statement.
End of story here.
If you don't believe me, use the internet, look up the law. It's very black and white in the case of libel. He is CLEARLY libel here.
He said that "we charged him twice", when in fact, he essentially ordered the kit twice himself by hitting the submit button once, and then again less than a minute later. He stated that we intentionally billed him twice.
He says that I "make a living robbing people". That's another slanderous, libel statement.
End of story here.
If you don't believe me, use the internet, look up the law. It's very black and white in the case of libel. He is CLEARLY libel here.
04-20-2004, 09:12 AM
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So I guess the lid and IAT sensor that I ordered online from your company that I was billed for (which, BTW, was out of stock and the order was cancelled via a direct phone conversation the same day) was a "special order" too?
Rob, maybe you should reconsider the practice of direct charging peoples' cc's when they order things online. It may save you some headaches in the future. Nevertheless, it won't be a problem for me anymore.
Rob, maybe you should reconsider the practice of direct charging peoples' cc's when they order things online. It may save you some headaches in the future. Nevertheless, it won't be a problem for me anymore.
04-20-2004, 09:15 AM
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First of all, the order was placed online and we only ever received ONE ORDER.
They said that it's common when that happens that the vendor would only get one order.
Those are some comments made in ROBS post. How does this type of circumstance happen to so many of your customers? It would be really bad if this forum was to find out you had to manually run all cards when a order was placed. (hope thats not the case though) It just dont add up that your server or software is setup like you say. why would you only show one order placed but have double the money in your account? If he did hit the submit button twice then you would have showed two orders correct? I know that if there was say 400 or 500 hundred extra in my account I sure would know.Isnt there supposed to be a batch at the end of the day with the CC machine or do you not do that in internet sales?It all just dont add up and I hope everyone can see the same thing im seeing BULLSHIT!!!!!!!
They said that it's common when that happens that the vendor would only get one order.
Those are some comments made in ROBS post. How does this type of circumstance happen to so many of your customers? It would be really bad if this forum was to find out you had to manually run all cards when a order was placed. (hope thats not the case though) It just dont add up that your server or software is setup like you say. why would you only show one order placed but have double the money in your account? If he did hit the submit button twice then you would have showed two orders correct? I know that if there was say 400 or 500 hundred extra in my account I sure would know.Isnt there supposed to be a batch at the end of the day with the CC machine or do you not do that in internet sales?It all just dont add up and I hope everyone can see the same thing im seeing BULLSHIT!!!!!!!
04-20-2004, 11:39 AM
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My lawyer has instructed me to make no further comments about this publicly. I will be happy to speak with anyone about their particular situation by phone.
FWIW, only one person has contacted me since these posts about any type of credit (which was a mistake on our end and has been taken care of). Which just goes to show that most people just "bandwagon". Anyone can type anything they want, it doesn't mean it's true. But if it's not true, I will now deal with them legally.
FWIW, only one person has contacted me since these posts about any type of credit (which was a mistake on our end and has been taken care of). Which just goes to show that most people just "bandwagon". Anyone can type anything they want, it doesn't mean it's true. But if it's not true, I will now deal with them legally.
04-20-2004, 11:42 AM
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By the way, here is some legal info about the charges and how to go about taking care of things. You all might want to read up on this!
http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/pubs/credit/billed.htm
http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/pubs/.../mailorder.htm
http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/pubs/credit/fcb.htm
http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/pubs/credit/billed.htm
http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/pubs/.../mailorder.htm
http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/pubs/credit/fcb.htm
04-21-2004, 01:37 AM
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Originally Posted by ls1fromohio
First of all, the order was placed online and we only ever received ONE ORDER.
They said that it's common when that happens that the vendor would only get one order.
Those are some comments made in ROBS post. How does this type of circumstance happen to so many of your customers? It would be really bad if this forum was to find out you had to manually run all cards when a order was placed. (hope thats not the case though) It just dont add up that your server or software is setup like you say. why would you only show one order placed but have double the money in your account? If he did hit the submit button twice then you would have showed two orders correct? I know that if there was say 400 or 500 hundred extra in my account I sure would know.Isnt there supposed to be a batch at the end of the day with the CC machine or do you not do that in internet sales?It all just dont add up and I hope everyone can see the same thing im seeing BULLSHIT!!!!!!!
They said that it's common when that happens that the vendor would only get one order.
Those are some comments made in ROBS post. How does this type of circumstance happen to so many of your customers? It would be really bad if this forum was to find out you had to manually run all cards when a order was placed. (hope thats not the case though) It just dont add up that your server or software is setup like you say. why would you only show one order placed but have double the money in your account? If he did hit the submit button twice then you would have showed two orders correct? I know that if there was say 400 or 500 hundred extra in my account I sure would know.Isnt there supposed to be a batch at the end of the day with the CC machine or do you not do that in internet sales?It all just dont add up and I hope everyone can see the same thing im seeing BULLSHIT!!!!!!!
Also what scares me is one - they're sueing their own cusomters and two as soon as you pointed this out he said he suddently can't talk about it anymore.
Sorry guys but I'd be afraid to buy from a company that sues it's customers plus you mentioned that you were sueing other people at the same time so you apperantly make a habbit of sueing people.
04-21-2004, 01:50 AM
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You don't know what you're talking about here. Resturant and Internet are two COMPLETELY different things. We get statements from the credit card comapnies and must balance at the end of the month, not nightly when we count the drawer down.
Plus, you obviously didn't even read what I said.
Fact is, I've never sued anyone in my life before 3 months ago! Sometimes, you have no choice.
Plus, you obviously didn't even read what I said.
Fact is, I've never sued anyone in my life before 3 months ago! Sometimes, you have no choice.
04-22-2004, 02:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Rob Raymer
Hmm...I just noticed you have only made 8 posts ever...looks like more trolling to me.
04-22-2004, 02:58 PM
#19
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Everyone cut it out. Everyone.
Email them at QMPSales@aol.com or call them during business hours. If you do not get a response in two or three days then let us know.
Email them at QMPSales@aol.com or call them during business hours. If you do not get a response in two or three days then let us know.