Would cast be ok or do I need forged?
12-19-2008, 11:00 AM
#1
Would cast be ok or do I need forged? Trying to keep this thing under a 7k budget. w/ AI 200cc ported stockers, AI cam, 383 rotating assembly, 1.6 rr, ported intake, new bearings, etc. My goal is about 430 rwhp/430 rwtq and have good street manners. I don't plan on throwing any nitrous or FI at it. I was looking at getting all 4340 forged crank and rods and forged aluminum pistons but would I be okay going w/ cast crank and rods? Just looking to see where I can save some money
12-19-2008, 06:35 PM
#4
If you aren't going to put in a forged crank don't bother replacing the stock crank.
Maybe go with their budget 355 setup that reuses the stock crank it is better than the aftermarket cast cranks and probably as good as many of the chinese forged cranks.
Maybe go with their budget 355 setup that reuses the stock crank it is better than the aftermarket cast cranks and probably as good as many of the chinese forged cranks.
Trending Topics
12-20-2008, 09:07 AM
#10
Go with a reputable source so you are confident the assembly is balanced correctly, saving rebalancing costs.
You could save on assembly and installation costs if you could do some or most of the work yourself.
I had my head and intake work done by a pro with 20+ years experience, and he did an excellent job for a very reasonable price. Send me a PM if you want more info.
Last edited by koolaid_kid; 12-20-2008 at 02:45 PM.
12-20-2008, 10:57 AM
#11
Launching!
iTrader: (3)
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Walnutport, PA
Posts: 229
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
always build the bottom end once. everything else can be changed.
do it right the first time. you spend how much on a set of heads, and cam and valve train. why skimp on the most important part.. also think about using a 4 bolt block or spaying the main caps...
aaron
do it right the first time. you spend how much on a set of heads, and cam and valve train. why skimp on the most important part.. also think about using a 4 bolt block or spaying the main caps...
aaron
12-20-2008, 12:51 PM
#12
How does using 5.7" rods save machining costs?
What data is there that says 2-bolts wont hold up to all the NA power he will ever ask it too? I know a guy running a best of 10.5 NA on a 2-bolt block in an Impala, been running 10s NA on it for a few years now.
Again the chinese cast cranks are weaker than stock.
You want a sucessful build you are going to have to sort out what is bench racing "info" and what is real data. Sad thing is you come somewhere like this and you will recieve more bench racing input than real data.
Once you look at the COMPLETE picture, the Compstar Speedpacks like AI offers are really a good value, an Eagle kit with crappy balance is just a couple hundred less but by the time you rebalance it the cost is the same and the quality is not even close to comparable to the Compstar.
Basically if you can't do the Compstar, consider a stock crank 355, if you can't do that then keep the stock shortblock. Eagle while popular is not that good, if you must use chinese cast and machined stuff at least use Scat.
What data is there that says 2-bolts wont hold up to all the NA power he will ever ask it too? I know a guy running a best of 10.5 NA on a 2-bolt block in an Impala, been running 10s NA on it for a few years now.
Again the chinese cast cranks are weaker than stock.
You want a sucessful build you are going to have to sort out what is bench racing "info" and what is real data. Sad thing is you come somewhere like this and you will recieve more bench racing input than real data.
Once you look at the COMPLETE picture, the Compstar Speedpacks like AI offers are really a good value, an Eagle kit with crappy balance is just a couple hundred less but by the time you rebalance it the cost is the same and the quality is not even close to comparable to the Compstar.
Basically if you can't do the Compstar, consider a stock crank 355, if you can't do that then keep the stock shortblock. Eagle while popular is not that good, if you must use chinese cast and machined stuff at least use Scat.
12-20-2008, 01:46 PM
#13
TECH Regular
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Ohio
Posts: 440
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
12-20-2008, 01:50 PM
#14
Once you look at the COMPLETE picture, the Compstar Speedpacks like AI offers are really a good value, an Eagle kit with crappy balance is just a couple hundred less but by the time you rebalance it the cost is the same and the quality is not even close to comparable to the Compstar.
Basically if you can't do the Compstar, consider a stock crank 355, if you can't do that then keep the stock shortblock. Eagle while popular is not that good, if you must use chinese cast and machined stuff at least use Scat.
Basically if you can't do the Compstar, consider a stock crank 355, if you can't do that then keep the stock shortblock. Eagle while popular is not that good, if you must use chinese cast and machined stuff at least use Scat.
12-20-2008, 06:08 PM
#15
12-21-2008, 09:41 AM
#16
Eagle is bottom of the barrel and consider TOTAL costs, you get parts from a cheap place and you will likely be paying for a rebalance which can get expensive fast.
Yes Eagle has worked for some guys, especially on loose bearing race engines, other guys have it self destruct in short order on the street. Too many dimensional issues. If a rod journal is tapered tight street clearances will have a problem with it long before a loose race motor will.
You have an M6, might as well call Eagle and ask if they ever startd making the pilot bushing bore he right size, they did not used too and guys had to call them to get the special bandaid bushing Eagle had to make to fit their badly machined cranks. Had a batch get out with scratched thrust surfaces that took out motors with just a few thousand miles too.
I am sure it shocks you to hear such but that is because marketing gets confused with quality these days and Eagle markets more heavily than anyone.
Everything about the Compstar kits is better and the price difference is pretty small once you consider the completeness and the overall cost of a project like this. It is forged overseas and machined by Callies here in the USA so you get to feel good about keeping some of your money here too.
If you go chinese machined at least go Scat.
Yes Eagle has worked for some guys, especially on loose bearing race engines, other guys have it self destruct in short order on the street. Too many dimensional issues. If a rod journal is tapered tight street clearances will have a problem with it long before a loose race motor will.
You have an M6, might as well call Eagle and ask if they ever startd making the pilot bushing bore he right size, they did not used too and guys had to call them to get the special bandaid bushing Eagle had to make to fit their badly machined cranks. Had a batch get out with scratched thrust surfaces that took out motors with just a few thousand miles too.
I am sure it shocks you to hear such but that is because marketing gets confused with quality these days and Eagle markets more heavily than anyone.
Everything about the Compstar kits is better and the price difference is pretty small once you consider the completeness and the overall cost of a project like this. It is forged overseas and machined by Callies here in the USA so you get to feel good about keeping some of your money here too.
If you go chinese machined at least go Scat.
12-21-2008, 03:51 PM
#17
what about connecting rod bolts? ones that come w/ the rods which are rated @ 160,000 psi and are 12 point head or should I up to L-19 ARP bolts that are rated @ 220,000 psi. Also I'm a newb when it comes to piston rings so would a plasma moly performance piston ring set or would it be beneficial for me to go w/ a gapless ring set. And what about bearings would h series clevite bearings be okay or is it beneficial to go w/ coated bearings
01-18-2009, 01:38 PM
#20
https://ls1tech.com/forums/lt1-lt4-m...ottem-end.html
For a budget built 355 build I would use the following parts:
-stock crank
-Scat part #2-ICR6000-7/16 http://www.cnc-motorsports.com/produ...25&CtgID=21452
-Mahle Piston's & rings part # SBC250030F05 http://www.cnc-motorsports.com/produ...D=16076&CtgID=
-Clevite P-series rod bearings # CB-663P
-Clevite P-series main bearings # MS909P http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Rod-M...QQcmdZViewItem
-ARP main bolts for strength http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ARP-M...QQcmdZViewItem
-balance the engine $150-$200
-Zero deck your block $120-$175
-Torque plate hone the block (est. $15 per cylinder)
This should net you 11.17:1 compression with a 58cc head and a 4.060" bore head gasket with a .040" compressed thickness.
-stock crank
-Scat part #2-ICR6000-7/16 http://www.cnc-motorsports.com/produ...25&CtgID=21452
-Mahle Piston's & rings part # SBC250030F05 http://www.cnc-motorsports.com/produ...D=16076&CtgID=
-Clevite P-series rod bearings # CB-663P
-Clevite P-series main bearings # MS909P http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Rod-M...QQcmdZViewItem
-ARP main bolts for strength http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ARP-M...QQcmdZViewItem
-balance the engine $150-$200
-Zero deck your block $120-$175
-Torque plate hone the block (est. $15 per cylinder)
This should net you 11.17:1 compression with a 58cc head and a 4.060" bore head gasket with a .040" compressed thickness.