Another LT1 cam swap
12-06-2010, 08:29 PM
#1
Another LT1 cam swap ok so i took a few days of vac to get started on this. I got everything pulled off ex the cam b/c i cant find my torx set.... FYI this is a PIA job. It took me 2 days of taking my time to get to where i am. I thought i would give some of the other noobs (like me) a tip when pulling the hub off of the front of the crank. It is NOT LIKE AN OLD SBC I put my puller on it and whent to wreching and it would'nt come off. This bastard is not hollow in the center like the oldies. I dont know if this is the right way but i put the crank bolt in and pressed agenst it. Another thing is the water pump has 6 bolts not 4 lol. This is the hardest car i have ever had to work on. We have pulled,built and installed sbc into 3rd gen camaros in about half the time it has taken me to do this.
The plan is to put in a cc306 EDIT ((((XE 230/236))) not the 306
Ebay spring kit
Ebay Headers and Y
Pushrods
1.6 RR
PCM for less tune
Dont know on the stall yet
Any who i have a few q's
1. Did you guys drop the oil pan to get the timing cover off? (not possible)
2. Can i run stock injectors?
Thanks for any help you can give. I would like your opinion on the cam also
The plan is to put in a cc306 EDIT ((((XE 230/236))) not the 306
Ebay spring kit
Ebay Headers and Y
Pushrods
1.6 RR
PCM for less tune
Dont know on the stall yet
Any who i have a few q's
1. Did you guys drop the oil pan to get the timing cover off? (not possible)
2. Can i run stock injectors?
Thanks for any help you can give. I would like your opinion on the cam also
Last edited by Brando5641; 12-06-2010 at 09:07 PM.
12-06-2010, 08:39 PM
#3
I pulled the timing cover with the oil pan ON, but putting it back on I had to loosen it. Just lower the pan, it's only a few bolts.
Injectors will be in the 90% duty cycle range...
EVERYBODY is going to tell you that cam is a terrible choice.
My friend has that cam and dyno'd 371whp with unported heads on his 6 speed.
I'd tell you from all the research and dyno's I've seen that pretty much all cams will dyno about the same, but some will peak too high for the stock shortblock to handle... the stock heads do lower the peak power though. They'll tell you the GM847 will peak way too high, yet I've seen numerous dyno charts where it peaks at 5800-6000 which is perfect for stock bottom end. I've NEVER seen a dyno proving otherwise. So be prepared to be told to switch cams.
Injectors will be in the 90% duty cycle range...
EVERYBODY is going to tell you that cam is a terrible choice.
My friend has that cam and dyno'd 371whp with unported heads on his 6 speed.
I'd tell you from all the research and dyno's I've seen that pretty much all cams will dyno about the same, but some will peak too high for the stock shortblock to handle... the stock heads do lower the peak power though. They'll tell you the GM847 will peak way too high, yet I've seen numerous dyno charts where it peaks at 5800-6000 which is perfect for stock bottom end. I've NEVER seen a dyno proving otherwise. So be prepared to be told to switch cams.
12-06-2010, 09:36 PM
#5
im in the same shoes you are in. Pulled my first camshaft a few weeks ago. However, i didnt find it that difficult, and i also removed my stock exhaust manifolds. The single hardest part was the crank hub removal lol. I worked on it for a few hours a day, not sure how much total time i have invested, i only wanted to throw tools twice though, both times were passenger side exhaust manifold related lol.
Obviously its a little time consuming, but i dont think its nessecarily hard work. I did royally **** up one of the bolts in autozones crank hub puller though haha. spent probably 3 hours on that alone, easily the most time consuming part.
This will really **** you off, LS1's have cam tools, you slide them in the block, holds the lifters up off the camshaft, no need to remove the intake manifold, plus you get like 380hp in the end. It really really pissed me off to hear that
Taking it apart is easy, putting it back together, and getting it to run....thats the hard part lol.
Still gotta worry about valve springs too
Obviously its a little time consuming, but i dont think its nessecarily hard work. I did royally **** up one of the bolts in autozones crank hub puller though haha. spent probably 3 hours on that alone, easily the most time consuming part.
This will really **** you off, LS1's have cam tools, you slide them in the block, holds the lifters up off the camshaft, no need to remove the intake manifold, plus you get like 380hp in the end. It really really pissed me off to hear that
Taking it apart is easy, putting it back together, and getting it to run....thats the hard part lol.
Still gotta worry about valve springs too
12-06-2010, 09:47 PM
#6
Any tips on the manifold removal? I know i am gona have to have wife hide the gas and lighters for when i get pissed off lol. I plan on starting on that in the morning. I was thinking about making some type of magnetic tool to hold up the lifters up for us lt1ers.
Im realy realy realy worried about breaking bolts when pulling the manifolds off.
Also i know i will be needing yalls help on some of the intake mounted smog crap. I got a vac line that i have no idea where it goes
Im realy realy realy worried about breaking bolts when pulling the manifolds off.
Also i know i will be needing yalls help on some of the intake mounted smog crap. I got a vac line that i have no idea where it goes
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12-06-2010, 10:53 PM
#9
Exhaust manifolds or intake manifold?
If you're removing the exhaust manifold, the factory used anti-seize. You'll be fine. Just use a good 6-pt. socket and get square with the bolt centerline. The intake manifold will pop off just fine also. Try to leave as much emissions crap on as possible to minimize confusion upon reassembly.
It is only difficult for you now because you've never done it before. Once you get used to the LT1 tricks and snafus, you'll be able to do it with your eyes closed. For example, use a crank hub puller (the one with the threaded inserts) and do NOT press against the factory bolt that isn't bottomed out in the crank, or you'll be drilling and helicoiling your crank.
Stuff like that.
If you're removing the exhaust manifold, the factory used anti-seize. You'll be fine. Just use a good 6-pt. socket and get square with the bolt centerline. The intake manifold will pop off just fine also. Try to leave as much emissions crap on as possible to minimize confusion upon reassembly.
It is only difficult for you now because you've never done it before. Once you get used to the LT1 tricks and snafus, you'll be able to do it with your eyes closed. For example, use a crank hub puller (the one with the threaded inserts) and do NOT press against the factory bolt that isn't bottomed out in the crank, or you'll be drilling and helicoiling your crank.
Stuff like that.
12-07-2010, 01:13 AM
#11
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It's always the most difficult doing it the first time. It gets a LOT easier the more times you do it.
Yep, 230/236 has too much duration for a 350 CID engine unless you also make a lot of other changes to accommodate its higher power band.
Your magnet plan because there's a part we refer to as the "spider" which is bolted to the block and which holds the lifters in place. The spider has to be unbolted and removed before the lifters can be removed. Pulling the intake is a piece of cake anyway. Even when I pulled one for the first time I'd didn't find it difficult at all.
Be sure to read Shoebox's site on how to properly re-install the crank hub. In fact, many other helpful bits of information can be found on his site.
It's all just a learning curve; not too steep though. When you get stuck, just drop us a line or two.
Jake
Yep, 230/236 has too much duration for a 350 CID engine unless you also make a lot of other changes to accommodate its higher power band.
Your magnet plan because there's a part we refer to as the "spider" which is bolted to the block and which holds the lifters in place. The spider has to be unbolted and removed before the lifters can be removed. Pulling the intake is a piece of cake anyway. Even when I pulled one for the first time I'd didn't find it difficult at all.
Be sure to read Shoebox's site on how to properly re-install the crank hub. In fact, many other helpful bits of information can be found on his site.
It's all just a learning curve; not too steep though. When you get stuck, just drop us a line or two.
Jake
12-07-2010, 08:00 AM
#12
About my magnet idea... i forgot about the spider
I am also going to do a a.i.r. and egr delete. Is there anything special i need to do besides blockoff plates and let the tuner know when i get my tune?
What cam do you guys recomend?
12-07-2010, 09:14 AM
#13
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Thank you captain obvious. They are no name parts and i cant post a link b/c they aren't sponsors
About my magnet idea... i forgot about the spider
I am also going to do a a.i.r. and egr delete. Is there anything special i need to do besides blockoff plates and let the tuner know when i get my tune?
What cam do you guys recomend?
About my magnet idea... i forgot about the spider
I am also going to do a a.i.r. and egr delete. Is there anything special i need to do besides blockoff plates and let the tuner know when i get my tune?
What cam do you guys recomend?
12-07-2010, 11:37 AM
#14
Alot of people are having luck with the 226/234 A/I cam, You can get the cam kit from them, everything you need for 1195$. check out their website.
a used CC503 is also a great choice as you can get a mail order tune thats almost spot on.
Check out the Cam selection sticky as always.
Intake manifold you should have no problems with, The drivers side 2nd or 3rd bolt from the back is kind of tricky. Half of my bolts were already loose it seemed. guess that would explain the leaks! Make sure you have a fuel line disconnect tool, autozone sells em for like 4.99 or some crap. Good tool to have regardless of the car.
Just make sure you remember where the bolts and nuts go on the intake manifold, use a peice of cardboard. I took mine apart a few weeks ago, was down there looking at it, found 2 bolts that i have no clue where they go guess ill figure it out when she goes back together!
btw, i hope you marked your crank hub pulley in relation to the block. might prove interesting if you didnt.
a used CC503 is also a great choice as you can get a mail order tune thats almost spot on.
Check out the Cam selection sticky as always.
Intake manifold you should have no problems with, The drivers side 2nd or 3rd bolt from the back is kind of tricky. Half of my bolts were already loose it seemed. guess that would explain the leaks! Make sure you have a fuel line disconnect tool, autozone sells em for like 4.99 or some crap. Good tool to have regardless of the car.
Just make sure you remember where the bolts and nuts go on the intake manifold, use a peice of cardboard. I took mine apart a few weeks ago, was down there looking at it, found 2 bolts that i have no clue where they go
guess ill figure it out when she goes back together!btw, i hope you marked your crank hub pulley in relation to the block. might prove interesting if you didnt.
12-07-2010, 08:32 PM
#16
sorry, im probably using the wrong words... I guess it would be what the pulley attaches to. the crank hub. theres a mark on it that needs to be at 12oclock and at 12 oclock one of the spokes will be pointing straight down... like so. But then again if you set the motor to #1 TDC you should be ok. Im not sure how big of a deal it is, i just figure it might help when reassembling it.
12-07-2010, 08:38 PM
#17
Well i got the manifolds unwelded from the heads. The 2 worst bolts where the next to last on both sides. I had to drop the steering column to get to the drivers side one.
you need a 14mm deep well a reg. 14mm a 14mm ratchet wrench and gloves
if you drop the column you will need a 11mm for the steering shaft bolt.
It wasnt as hard as i thought it was going to be. I still have the hardest part to do tomorrow, the collector bolts. I was thinking and wondering if anyone has ever just cut the pipe just bellow cat on the drivers side manifold and pulled it out as 1 piece? There is no way those bolts are going to come out plus i cant even get to one of them.
I also noticed that most of my bolts that i have removed where loose. (ex exaust bolts) My water pump bolts were very loose but it didnt leak.
you need a 14mm deep well a reg. 14mm a 14mm ratchet wrench and gloves
if you drop the column you will need a 11mm for the steering shaft bolt.
It wasnt as hard as i thought it was going to be. I still have the hardest part to do tomorrow, the collector bolts. I was thinking and wondering if anyone has ever just cut the pipe just bellow cat on the drivers side manifold and pulled it out as 1 piece? There is no way those bolts are going to come out plus i cant even get to one of them.
I also noticed that most of my bolts that i have removed where loose. (ex exaust bolts) My water pump bolts were very loose but it didnt leak.
12-07-2010, 08:59 PM
#20
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The collector bolts look bad, but after I soaked them in PB they were surprisingly easy. I cut one side before trying the bolts and it was a pain to get it out, try the collector bolts first.