LTX Cylinder Heads
03-18-2011, 08:57 PM
#1
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LTX Cylinder Heads I am trying to figure out what cylinder heads to go with. I should state that I am building a 11.1/12.1 N/A engine to start off with and then the plan is for some twin's. I am overdoing the build now because I am planning for the future. I am doing it right the first time so when I freshen up and get new pistons for the twin's everything should go back together and stay together.
I have been under the assumption that AFR was the #1 heads for the LTX. I have recently read alot of bad things about their CNC porting and needing to send them off to a reputable porter for further work. The only thing is, those threads were from 2003-2005. I have not found any new threads that talk about their work now and if those problems have been resolved. By no means am I only looking into AFR, that is what this thread is for so I can get comments who are already have AFR's, Trickflow's, LE's, AI's, Edelbrock's, or whatever else is out there.
Please let me know what you are running.
Where you got it.
What was your take on it.
What your experiences are.
What your results are (numbers don't lie.)
Basicly stuff like that.
Thank You in advance to anyone who responds.
Michael
I have been under the assumption that AFR was the #1 heads for the LTX. I have recently read alot of bad things about their CNC porting and needing to send them off to a reputable porter for further work. The only thing is, those threads were from 2003-2005. I have not found any new threads that talk about their work now and if those problems have been resolved. By no means am I only looking into AFR, that is what this thread is for so I can get comments who are already have AFR's, Trickflow's, LE's, AI's, Edelbrock's, or whatever else is out there.
Please let me know what you are running.
Where you got it.
What was your take on it.
What your experiences are.
What your results are (numbers don't lie.)
Basicly stuff like that.
Thank You in advance to anyone who responds.
Michael
03-18-2011, 09:31 PM
#2
I have a set of AFR 227's sitting here and they don't need anything done to them. I've honestly never heard of anything bad with their cnc'ing. Everything looks very uniform (as it should with a cnc'd head), there are ZERO flakes inside of them, and there are ZERO areas where you can see any casting marks. Can you send me a link to these bad things that you recently read?
03-18-2011, 09:45 PM
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I just searched AFR on this site in many different forms AFR LT4, AFR LT4 Heads, AFR 227, etc. etc. Some seemed to love their AFR's and others did not, but that is normal everyone has different opinons. One of those link's said AFR sucked out of the box and they had to send them off, and when they got them back they were excellent. I just did my research before starting a thread.
But I was curious to what others are running and how they like their setup. I am looking at AI TFS 215's and AFR 227's. Those are my top runners as of now. If anyone has anything to add keep it coming. I need to chose soon and I want to chose the right heads so I can go fast. If your not first your last. Michael
But I was curious to what others are running and how they like their setup. I am looking at AI TFS 215's and AFR 227's. Those are my top runners as of now. If anyone has anything to add keep it coming. I need to chose soon and I want to chose the right heads so I can go fast. If your not first your last. Michael
03-18-2011, 10:18 PM
#4
Ok....
I'm running an Advanced Induction 215cc CNC Trick Flow Head...
The port work on the head is second to none.....unbelievable attention to detail in the port work and consistancy as well as the valve job and combustion chambers....
As for experience......my experience working with AI has also been great they are extremely knowledgable and are very nice to talk to and deal with.
My results with these heads have been great......
On a 385ci motor with a SR AI cam I've gone a best of 10.26 @132 naturally aspirated and I still street drive it occasionally. This year I plan on running 9s NA with it....
Hope this helps!!!!
Mike V -
I'm running an Advanced Induction 215cc CNC Trick Flow Head...
The port work on the head is second to none.....unbelievable attention to detail in the port work and consistancy as well as the valve job and combustion chambers....
As for experience......my experience working with AI has also been great they are extremely knowledgable and are very nice to talk to and deal with.
My results with these heads have been great......
On a 385ci motor with a SR AI cam I've gone a best of 10.26 @132 naturally aspirated and I still street drive it occasionally. This year I plan on running 9s NA with it....
Hope this helps!!!!
Mike V -
03-18-2011, 10:27 PM
#5
I think AFR still makes great heads, but there's always room for improvement to suit your specific needs.
The final product should compliment the entire package.
Great heads for one application might be an absolute nightmare for another.
That will make a bigger difference than who's CNC machine (or grinding tools) ported them.
An off-the-shelf generic casting or CNC plan may or may not be the best option for you.
I think your best bets are to talk to shops about your plans and talk to others with similar setups.
I run a set of LE-ported Dart Pro1 heads.
I got them from Summit, and shipped them directly to Lloyd for porting.
I put over 460 to the wheels though a broken rear end, locked 4000 stall and with a
loose balancer hub (which ultimately ended my tuning session before we finished)
My application was N/A with a 236/248 HR cam, so your ideal port work is going to look different than mine.
As for my experience with LE. Lloyd is a very nice guy and very willing to share knowledge and help you get
exactly what you need. He's done two sets of heads for me (ported stock and these).
He's far more interested in making sure that you will be satisfied with your product than in making a buck
and he'll tell you strait up if there's a better way to get where you are trying to be.
FWIW; when I first got my LT1 in 2005 , I was ready to buy AFRs right off the shelf until
I started talking to guys who've built these motors and began to undertand why there is
no "the best" solution, there are just "best for this situation". I've been driving and modding Fbodies for 12+ years.
The final product should compliment the entire package.
Great heads for one application might be an absolute nightmare for another.
That will make a bigger difference than who's CNC machine (or grinding tools) ported them.
An off-the-shelf generic casting or CNC plan may or may not be the best option for you.
I think your best bets are to talk to shops about your plans and talk to others with similar setups.
I run a set of LE-ported Dart Pro1 heads.
I got them from Summit, and shipped them directly to Lloyd for porting.
I put over 460 to the wheels though a broken rear end, locked 4000 stall and with a
loose balancer hub (which ultimately ended my tuning session before we finished)
My application was N/A with a 236/248 HR cam, so your ideal port work is going to look different than mine.
As for my experience with LE. Lloyd is a very nice guy and very willing to share knowledge and help you get
exactly what you need. He's done two sets of heads for me (ported stock and these).
He's far more interested in making sure that you will be satisfied with your product than in making a buck
and he'll tell you strait up if there's a better way to get where you are trying to be.
FWIW; when I first got my LT1 in 2005 , I was ready to buy AFRs right off the shelf until
I started talking to guys who've built these motors and began to undertand why there is
no "the best" solution, there are just "best for this situation". I've been driving and modding Fbodies for 12+ years.
03-18-2011, 10:43 PM
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My advice to you is not to limit yourself to "LT1" head porters .Find the BEST head porter that you can afford. The world is a big place and not everyone posts on internet forums. My experience?My stuff runs very good.
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03-18-2011, 11:59 PM
#9
because on here guys tell people to go LE or AI as a default. But kudos to LE and AI at least they post in here and that helps too on the lt1 stuff.
My heads were done by a local guy, nice guy too and still takes my calls after 7 years after he did the heads. Sometimes helps to talk to a human being too and not just depend on what you read on the internet.
My heads were done by a local guy, nice guy too and still takes my calls after 7 years after he did the heads. Sometimes helps to talk to a human being too and not just depend on what you read on the internet.
03-19-2011, 01:00 AM
#10
plenty of great "lesser known" shops that can do your cylinder heads. LE and AI are easy to recommend because unless someone lives near you that has personal experience with a local shop it's hard to recommend otherwise. performance and automotive shops in general can be a crap shoot like much of my own personal experience with them. luckily I have a GREAT local cylinder head shop that did my heads for a great price and I am nothing but completely satisfied with what I got.
best bet is to start talking to local racers and get ALOT of opinions. many people will nutswing off certain shops because they don't know any better so it's best to get the most info you can from the most people. the guys that are actually running the numbers are the best to talk to. anyone satisfied with the shop they've dealt with would be more than happy to point you in the right direction, because a good shop can be very hard to come by. the automotive industry is full of theives and scammers, so a great shop with great customer service and a quality product/service is sadly a minority not the majority.
best bet is to start talking to local racers and get ALOT of opinions. many people will nutswing off certain shops because they don't know any better so it's best to get the most info you can from the most people. the guys that are actually running the numbers are the best to talk to. anyone satisfied with the shop they've dealt with would be more than happy to point you in the right direction, because a good shop can be very hard to come by. the automotive industry is full of theives and scammers, so a great shop with great customer service and a quality product/service is sadly a minority not the majority.
03-19-2011, 07:29 AM
#12
There are alot of different ways to get from point a-b, depends on how much cash you want to spend and how fast u want to go. Don't build an LT1 for boost and don't have a blower or turbo yet. My 95LT1 with cleaned up stock casting heads, ran 12.01@113mph with a mild camshaft, boltons, 2800 converter and 3.42 gears so no portwork needed to go those times. I also ran 10.80@127mph with LE ported stock casting heads with my 383 on motor. So i say have your factory heads ported now add a matching cam, converter, gear, tires and tune. You should be able to run 11's no problems, then when youre ready for boost just swap to a lower com pression piston or sell your stock heads and swap to AFR's or Trickflows with a bigger combustion chamber to lower your compression for boost. Later Clint
03-19-2011, 09:57 AM
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Ok....
I'm running an Advanced Induction 215cc CNC Trick Flow Head...
The port work on the head is second to none.....unbelievable attention to detail in the port work and consistancy as well as the valve job and combustion chambers....
As for experience......my experience working with AI has also been great they are extremely knowledgable and are very nice to talk to and deal with.
My results with these heads have been great......
On a 385ci motor with a SR AI cam I've gone a best of 10.26 @132 naturally aspirated and I still street drive it occasionally. This year I plan on running 9s NA with it....
Hope this helps!!!!
Mike V -
I'm running an Advanced Induction 215cc CNC Trick Flow Head...
The port work on the head is second to none.....unbelievable attention to detail in the port work and consistancy as well as the valve job and combustion chambers....
As for experience......my experience working with AI has also been great they are extremely knowledgable and are very nice to talk to and deal with.
My results with these heads have been great......
On a 385ci motor with a SR AI cam I've gone a best of 10.26 @132 naturally aspirated and I still street drive it occasionally. This year I plan on running 9s NA with it....
Hope this helps!!!!
Mike V -
03-19-2011, 10:02 AM
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I think AFR still makes great heads, but there's always room for improvement to suit your specific needs.
The final product should compliment the entire package.
Great heads for one application might be an absolute nightmare for another.
That will make a bigger difference than who's CNC machine (or grinding tools) ported them.
An off-the-shelf generic casting or CNC plan may or may not be the best option for you.
I think your best bets are to talk to shops about your plans and talk to others with similar setups.
I run a set of LE-ported Dart Pro1 heads.
I got them from Summit, and shipped them directly to Lloyd for porting.
I put over 460 to the wheels though a broken rear end, locked 4000 stall and with a
loose balancer hub (which ultimately ended my tuning session before we finished)
My application was N/A with a 236/248 HR cam, so your ideal port work is going to look different than mine.
As for my experience with LE. Lloyd is a very nice guy and very willing to share knowledge and help you get
exactly what you need. He's done two sets of heads for me (ported stock and these).
He's far more interested in making sure that you will be satisfied with your product than in making a buck
and he'll tell you strait up if there's a better way to get where you are trying to be.
FWIW; when I first got my LT1 in 2005 , I was ready to buy AFRs right off the shelf until
I started talking to guys who've built these motors and began to undertand why there is
no "the best" solution, there are just "best for this situation". I've been driving and modding Fbodies for 12+ years.
The final product should compliment the entire package.
Great heads for one application might be an absolute nightmare for another.
That will make a bigger difference than who's CNC machine (or grinding tools) ported them.
An off-the-shelf generic casting or CNC plan may or may not be the best option for you.
I think your best bets are to talk to shops about your plans and talk to others with similar setups.
I run a set of LE-ported Dart Pro1 heads.
I got them from Summit, and shipped them directly to Lloyd for porting.
I put over 460 to the wheels though a broken rear end, locked 4000 stall and with a
loose balancer hub (which ultimately ended my tuning session before we finished)
My application was N/A with a 236/248 HR cam, so your ideal port work is going to look different than mine.
As for my experience with LE. Lloyd is a very nice guy and very willing to share knowledge and help you get
exactly what you need. He's done two sets of heads for me (ported stock and these).
He's far more interested in making sure that you will be satisfied with your product than in making a buck
and he'll tell you strait up if there's a better way to get where you are trying to be.
FWIW; when I first got my LT1 in 2005 , I was ready to buy AFRs right off the shelf until
I started talking to guys who've built these motors and began to undertand why there is
no "the best" solution, there are just "best for this situation". I've been driving and modding Fbodies for 12+ years.
03-19-2011, 10:17 AM
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There are alot of different ways to get from point a-b, depends on how much cash you want to spend and how fast u want to go. Don't build an LT1 for boost and don't have a blower or turbo yet. My 95LT1 with cleaned up stock casting heads, ran 12.01@113mph with a mild camshaft, boltons, 2800 converter and 3.42 gears so no portwork needed to go those times. I also ran 10.80@127mph with LE ported stock casting heads with my 383 on motor. So i say have your factory heads ported now add a matching cam, converter, gear, tires and tune. You should be able to run 11's no problems, then when youre ready for boost just swap to a lower com pression piston or sell your stock heads and swap to AFR's or Trickflows with a bigger combustion chamber to lower your compression for boost. Later Clint
03-19-2011, 11:34 AM
#17
If you plan to run an aggressive turbo setup later on, I would go with aftermarket castings that leave you more room to grow.
Ported stockers are fine for most people, but aftermarket castings like TFS or AFR do have more overall potential for those few people looking to squeeze a bit more performance out of their builds.
Ported stockers are fine for most people, but aftermarket castings like TFS or AFR do have more overall potential for those few people looking to squeeze a bit more performance out of their builds.
03-19-2011, 01:08 PM
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Well I don't have final numbers for you but I can tell you my experience so far. I rebuilt my 93 LT1 as a 383 LT4 with eagle's street and strip balanced rotating assembly B13054L030, BBK headers and 58mm throttle body, 36 lb injectors, Crane Cams 230 int./238 exh. 112 LSA and .574 int. .595 exh lift with 1.6 roller rockers and 3600 stall converter with stock 4L60 tranny to give you a basic idea of my set up. I went with a set of used LT4 heads and intake from a 96 Corvette Grand Sport. I took the heads and intake to a local guy here in SW FL who did a terrific job on the heads with larger valves and some great moderate porting and polishing. Sadly before he was able to do the intake he was diagnosed with stage 4 cancer and his new partner (he had just brought in a new partner with plans to retire at the end of that year) did the work on the intake. It was dynoed after break in but the auto tranny was weak, couldn't get it to shift solid and somewhere during the dyno the number 8 exhaust valve spring broke (long story, not the machine guys fault or the dyno guy) and it was still able to put down 355 rwhp. I have since redone the valve train and the tranny is still being rebuilt but as soon as I am able to get a better dyno on it I will share the results with all you guys. My total price with the used heads and intake, larger valves and all the machine work was a little under $3,000 which is close to what I would have spent on the AFR heads alone. I am no machinist or head flow expert but from what I have seen and heard the stock LT4 heads plus machine work seem to do as well as the AFR's for less money. Now I will duck and cover for the storm I just pulled down on myself.
