The Outlaw Kid

iTrader: (1)

Car: 96 Trans Am A4 105xxx miles.

When I changed my starter. This was the surprise I found. It was bolted to the block and still started (but not on every try), it came out in four pieces.

I've never seen a starter break like this, so I started asking around. I got a few different answers;
1) The timing is too far advanced causing harder cranking.
A) To my knowledge the engine is stock and so is the timing.
It does have a custom tune, but I don't know what's been tuned.
It had a MSD ignition system on it but the Previous owner had it
removed when the opti failed.

2) The engine kicked back.
B) I've never heard this term before, but I'm assuming it means the
flexplate somewhat rolls back on the starter and breaks it over time.

3) Shitty starter. Not shimmed right. Over cranking.
C) The starter was on there when I bought the car. So I don't know
the brand or build date. It was shimmed and the one I put one is
shimmed the same way. I don't recall ever over cranking but that
doesn't mean it never was.

4) Opti
D) I'm sure that was a joke.

My question is what are your thoughts?

J-13gtp

iTrader: (1)

I had one that split nearly in half. Wasn't as bad as yours but defiantly couldn't use it again. Mine split because the motor had sat all winter with out a start up. I was getting the car ready for summer and threw new battery on it. Went to start it up and CRACK. Thought I had striped the teeth off the fly wheel. Got under the car and found that the starter casing had cracked. Turned out the engine had gotten stuck and the starter was the weak link.

But I would guess that you just got lucky and got a starter that had a imperfection in the metal of the case.

kgkern01

iTrader: (10)

Get an LT4 starter, you can get one with lifetime warranty at the 'zone' or other parts store. They are lighter, smaller with more clearance for headers, and geared better than the stock LT1 starter. I have one and it starts my 13.5:1 385 no problem.

BALLSS

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

The Outlaw Kid

iTrader: (1)

The starter in the picture is the old one I just replaced it this morning. So while its possible that it was a bad case. I'm not so sure anymore. I think I just (like 5 minutes ago) blew the new one I put on this morning cuz now it won't even try to turn the motor.

I would've ordered the LT4 starter but I didn't do my research before I bought a new one. After I got it, I looked up the best way to change one in an auto trans car and found a thread about LT1 vs LT4 starters.
But I may have to buy another starter cuz I think this one just blew.


It only started the car 7 times.

94FBIRD

iTrader: (5)

Your motor might be hydrolocked from a blown head gasket. I've that situation blow apart starters.

The Outlaw Kid

iTrader: (1)

This I doubt. When the motor starts it runs great. That sounds like it would ruin a night though.

I picked up a LT4 starter today. The bendix on my other starter had stuck to the flexplate and burnt the internal bearings out while driving home.




We put the LT4 starter on the car and began shimming. We shimmed it to about a 1/4 inch. And it still seems to need more shims. We called it a night after that. Tomorrow I'm gonna count the teeth on the flexplate to make sure it's the correct plate in the car. I'm pretty sure it's a 153, please correct me if I'm wrong. The previous owner had the flexplate changed that's why I question if it's the correct plate. If it turns out to be the correct plate, the next step is to shim one side of the starter. Does anybody have any input on this? Any advice?

stevo9389

does the motor still seem to kick back? if so consider the opti

i am not one to badmouth the opti but a friend of mine had so many starters replaced from a similar issue that they just said f#$% it and gave him back his money. i was in complete disbelief that the opti was at fault until he changed it out and the problem has not surfaced again.

The Outlaw Kid

iTrader: (1)

To be honest I'm not 100% sure what kick back is. But the car has a tendency to die randomly at idle and I mean like maybe once every two weeks if I daily drive it. It will always start back up first turn of the key. I've also felt it surge forward not very often and it usually doesn't last long. I felt a dead miss when in park before the last starter went. But I turned the car off and back on and no miss. I've heard those can be signs of opti failure though. But everything I've read says the opti would just blow out and that's pretty much that. Work or won't work. Blow or go.

The car runs fine 99% of the time.

stevo9389

Kick back is the motor trying to rotate the opposite direction while cranking which results in shattered starters and/or broken teeth on flex plates. Unless the guy who tuned it put in too much spark advance while cranking, it is probably the opti.

Hit em Up

iTrader: (3)

When the car did start did it fire up instantly or did it crank awhile first? 2nd I've changed many lt1 starters and have never once needed a shim,1/4 shims sounds like something's wrong.Also check ur fuel reg and make sure it's not leaking causing to much fuel in the cylinders on cranking.

The Outlaw Kid

iTrader: (1)

I'm actually not sure if it still does or not. To check it would you have someone crank it and someone watch the flexplate? It was tuned before I bought the car so it's possible the spark advance is too much. Does that have to be checked with a scanner or a timing light? I have access to both. I'd imagine a scanner because it's programmed through tunning.

It cranked for a split second not as bad as some old carbs if that give you an idea (my motor is not carb that's just an example). We figured 1/4 inch of shim was wrong and we were just wasting our time, that's why we called it a day. I don't think it would be the FPR I had a fuel pump issue at the beginning of spring. I checked it then and it was fine, but I'll check again it could've gone out over the summer.

myltwon

iTrader: (1)

lol beat me to it steveo

The Outlaw Kid

iTrader: (1)

I counted the teeth on the flexplate. It has 153 teeth, so I know its the right flexplate.

The bendix on the LT4 starter is still having trouble disengaging from the flexplate. The next steps that we are thinking is to put a dial indicator on the flexplate to check for warpage. Then if that checks out try to shim just one side of the starter.

While I'm starting to agree that the opti is most likely the root problem, I need to get the starter issue resolved before I can move on. I'd like to get it started to check the opti but first I need to get the bendix to stop jamming up on the flexplate. The car will start though but I don't want to burn up the starter. It will disengage if we crawl under the car and move the flexplate slightly. Any ideas on this one?

fex77k

iTrader: (2)

I put a wire hanger in between the teeth of the flywheel to make sure the starter isn't moved to far up and into the flywheel teeth. This gives me a starting point and I adjust it as necessary. If the starter will not disengage then the alignment of the starter is way off.

bubear86

Ouch hope you get it figured out.

The Outlaw Kid

iTrader: (1)

We've been using an 1/8th drill bit. We saw it in shimming instructions that came with the first replacement starter I used. Do you think they're about the same size? I don't have a wire hanger at the moment. Have you ever had to shim just on side of the starter? Or had a flexplate warp?

fex77k

iTrader: (2)

I have had to shim a starter before, I try to use the full shim that goes around both bolt holes. The key thing with the 1/8 inch bit or the wire hanger, is to get some spacing so you don't drive the starter into the flexplate. If it is really far off, I will put a paint marker on some of the teeth and see what the contact patch looks like.

The Outlaw Kid

iTrader: (1)

We got it shimmed we gave up using the 1/8" rod method and just went by ear. Thanks for the help guys.