Anthony97ws6

No need some guidance and outweighing some options for the winter build project. I've got a 97 TA ws6 with just some minor things done. really the only thing done to the motor atm is 1.6rr and i have a comp xfi280 cam ready to be installed this winter. However, i am having trouble deciding to keep it a 350 or build as a 383. My budget is around 4-6k. Also, i have a brand new t3 turbonetics turbo that i would possibly like to add. So any ideas would be much appreciated. Thanks

96capricemgr

iTrader: (1)

Why do you want to go into the motor atall?
T3 looks like it is for a 4cylinder, turbotecnics website says 250-400hp. Cam only the LT1 will make that without the turbo.

By the time you purchase supporting mods $4-6k isn't enough to do a longblock build or a turbo build even if the turbo you had was big enough.

Settle down, stop buying parts and READ a lot, from this one post it sounds like you are not ready to be digging in this deep yet.

revolutions

iTrader: (1)

If you plan to build the bottom end I say go ahead and go 383 since it is the same price.
How many miles on the motor?
What is your goal?

Shownomercy

iTrader: (1)

Sell baby turbo, buy a nice used 383 motor and be done. A 10sec capable built motor used is prob around 4k, and buying new prob would eclipse 6k...

Using that budget, just divorce yourself from any idea of a forced induction build. It won't happen the way you envision it to.

Edit: Props for coming and asking before buying stuff though, its easier to learn then build, than to build then learn. Cheaper too.

96capricemgr

iTrader: (1)

Factory crank is rock solid so a 383 is not the same price a good forged crank is probably $700 and that would be chinese and more likely to be a hassle to balance. The real price to build a 383 vs a stock crank 355 can easily be $1000 more.

A fancy shortblock wont make power without some form of head upgrade.

$6k is NOT a realistic 383 build budget, sure someone will have a story about how they did it, great for them, but it is not something to plan on especially if the car needs full exhaust, tranny work, fuel system etc.

Used stuff can make a budget go further if the stuff is decent and you understand what you need.

revolutions

iTrader: (1)

96capricemgr
I said if building the bottom end. That implies going to a forged crank which would make it the same price whether 3.48 or 3.75 stroke.

96capricemgr

iTrader: (1)

How new are you to this? The stock crank is in plenty of "built" shortblocks because it is damned stout.

In general people are too quick to jump on the stroker bandwagon when heads are more important to output.

revolutions

iTrader: (1)

I am an auto technician with over 25 years years experience, that doesn't really matter though.
He asked a question and I gave input you should do the same instead of always commenting
on what others say and being so negative/opinionated as it brings nothing to the topic.

hrcslam

That doesn't make a forged 3.48 crank any more applicable in an LT1 than a stock crank.Bottom line, experience or not, a 383 WILL cost more. By at least the price of the crank because a stock stroke can use the stock crank for all stock stroke builds.

The input is, if your short block is healthy, build on top of that with a good set of heads. If not, with his budget, keep the stock crank if at all possible because it won't break from too much power.

96capricemgr

iTrader: (1)

Don't mistake professional parts swapper for being knowledgeable about automotive modification they are NOT the same thing, so you are right, it doesn't matter.

Telling the guy to go ahead and build the motor and giving him inaccurate information on it costing the same is not helpful, it gets him in too far over his head and leads to him being one of those guys selling parts at a massive loss because either he can't afford to finish it or does it wrong.

If the whole rest of the car is ready, tranny, axle, fuel system, suspension, exhaust then $6k is not enough to be building an engine. In simple terms people will argue it is but if you look at all the details and leave some budget for the unexpected it is not and it doesn't sound like this car is setup yet otherwise he probably would have mentioned more than roller rockers.

At least that is my opinion based on m 15 years experience with this specific platform.

revolutions

iTrader: (1)

If the car isn't ready for a built 383 then it isn't ready for a built 350 either so that isn't really relevant.
The cost difference between the 2 built to the same level is minimal and in my case there is zero difference
because I do any required clearancing myself. The local machine shop charges $130 to clearance block/rods for a stroker.
I guess you are right it is more expensive and that $130 is going to break the bank.
Is there an increased possibility of unforeseen costs yes. Maybe a reduced base circle cam being one.
With some research you can find a setup that will reduce the chance of that.

I said technician not mechanic I am not a parts changer I diagnose problems not throw parts at vehicles until it is fixed.
Besides fixing cars for a living I have studied performance mods since I was a teen nearly 30 years ago.

Where did he say "Looking for suggestions on a car build". Oh he didn't he asked about an engine build.
If he had asked about a car build I would have suggested do the drive line and suspension first since all the
power in the world is worthless if you can't get it to the ground or scatter a trans/rear end.

Anthony97ws6

The car has 140k miles and its a m6. I am also going to rebuild trans this winter since my 6th gear does not engage and also rear end.
Well i was pretty much given the turbo so thats why i have it. And i totally agree with the fact that it is a tiny turbo. I believe i want to keep it all motor anyway. I would like to know what i should do for a rotating assembly and heads etc.

hrcslam

A stroker crank costs more than the stock one that he already has........ You do NOT need a forged 3.48 crank for an LT1 as the stock one is already incredibly strong.

A technician should understand the comments being made and how they are applicable to the build advise the OP requested.

revolutions

iTrader: (1)

hrcslam
What build advise? The only thing that has been said is 6K. Excuse me for leaving a single word "forged" out of my original statement.

Anthony
Let me start by saying sorry for the hijack/ramblings.
I would go with:
Lloyd Elliot LE2 ported heads.
If 383
Scat 1-41825BIE rotating assembly
If 355
Rods Scat Ultra Q-lite 2-350-6000-2100-QLS
Pistons and rings Mahle PowerPak kit SBC250030F05

I would have the block machined for 4 bolt splayed caps (if a 2 bolt) and decked to achieve a static compression ratio of 11:1, stud the mains and heads.
You will need a higher volume fuel pump (255 Liter/hr), bigger injectors (36 Lb/hr) and a tune.
I would recommend porting the stock intake (lloyd), quality pushrods (check for proper length before ordering), long tube headers, free flowing exhaust, 3.73 or higher rear gear,larger throttle body or air foil for stock TB.
Keep in mind a stock clutch is not going to hold the power for long with the power level you will be at roughly 400whp and the 7.5" rear won't live for long if you hook, I have seen a bolt on only M6 car break one.

hrcslam

How do you not see what 96CapriceMgr is posting is advise?

Also, you contradict your self. The 383 rotating assembly you posted costs almost 2X the cost of the rods and pistons you posted for a stock stroke build....... Is that the same price to you????

Beyond that, I would say deck the block to control quench with the head gasket. Use the piston and combustion chamber to control SCR, preferably the head chamber (as in don't mill the heads as much as possible, only enough to true them up). Shoot for 11.5:1 (or a bit higher) SCR with that cam and overlap. It's very similar to mine with less advance and less overlap.

Listing the $$ so far Pistons - $700, rods - $400, Machine work - $1000-2000, Misc gaskets and materials -$500 (probably higher), Fuel pump - $100, Headers w/ Y pipe -$350, Cat back - $500, Tune - $100-500, Pushrods - $100, Fuel injectors - $100 (at least). That's $3850 to $5250 and we didn't touch the heads and intake or TB yet. Heads LE2 - $1300, Intake porting - $200, TB - $350-500. Total - $5700-7250 and that's for the 355. Can it be beat? Yes, absolutely. I built mine with some savy shopping for $4500 total, for everything (and yes I built the bottom half).

The 383? Add at least $1K.

Or he could do this, check compression - if good.....

Get an LE2 kit from Lloyd with a cam for it (sell the xfi280) - $1600, leave the intake and TB stock, headers back - $850, misc gaskets (Impala head gasket) and materials - $500, pushrods - $100, fuel pump - $100, Fuel injectors - $100, Tune - $100-500. Total- $3350- 3750 add in shipping of parts and stuff and he'll be under budget leaving him with a couple grand for a good clutch (I recommend a McLeod disc on a stock everything else- works great at my power level and cost me about $400 with resurfacing and balancing). Then he can pocket the other $1500 and put it towards a 12 bolt, 9 inch or S60. He'll need it with any type of real traction.

revolutions

iTrader: (1)

hrc
I was referring to the cost being the same if he plans to go with a fully forged rotating assembly is that really that hard to understand.
He mentioned possibly doing forced induction which definitely brings in the possibility of him going fully forged.
Obviously if staying with a stock crank it is cheaper.
The rotating assembly I posted is not double 1750-1150=600 but when you factor in the included parts and balancing it is more like $300.

96capricemgr

iTrader: (1)

Stock crank is fine for forced induction. In my 15 years experience with this platform I have yet to see someone overpower a stock crank.