bp92gsr

iTrader: (1)

Below is a list of items that an engine builder quoted my uncle. My uncle wants 500 whp and has been talking with a builder about what he'll need to get there. I am an LS guy at heart and am not too familiar with the LT platform. First off, will this list of parts net him 500 whp and do the prices listed look accurate for the parts listed? I am currently in the process of finding out more details/specs on which heads, intake, and cam the builder plans to use and will update thread when I find out. I welcome any and all advice. Thanks!

Engine removal and re-installation, all tear down cost, bore, hone, clearancing, and decking of block surface, R&R of cylinder heads, performance valve job, surfacing, assembly of long block. $3771.50

SBC LT1 383 Stroker Master Engine Kit, BALANCED New Roller Cam & Lifters, timing, valves, full gasket kit, etc. $1,892.35

Porting labor/ ECM-0007 - Cylinder head bowl blend and mild port of the runners $570.00

ARP SB Chevy Hex Head Bolt Kit $74.56

Stand alone ECU set up and calibration, 30 lb Bosch injectors, Walbro fuel pump - OBDI LT1 Tuning Kit, dyno time, and EFI tuner/ calibrator $987.50

Motul 1QT Classic BREAK-IN OIL 10W40 $39.90

Coolant, oil filter, spark plugs, etc. $50.00

myltwon

iTrader: (1)

Sounds like a hydraulic roller setup with mildly ported heads, very few details but most likely will be around 100HP shy of your goal

Catmaigne

iTrader: (6)

I think he would be very lucky hitting 500 crank horsepower with that but I am still skeptical. We don't have cam specs and lightly massaged stock heads aren't going to net much. I would also be very weary about building a budget 383. All of those parts for $1900 probably translates to easily broken cast crank, cheapo rods/pistons/rings, lazy shelf cam, etc.

Also, is this auto or manual? I'm also guessing it'll be hydraulic roller, but is he opposed to going solid roller? A solid roller 355 would get the job done cheaper.

bp92gsr

iTrader: (1)

This will be through an auto so yes, the whp will be less due to loss at drivetrain. Again, I am not yet sure of the details of the cam, head work, and or what rotating assembly this will be. His builder seems to think this combo will net his goals however, I am very skeptical considering he still plans to run pump 93.

AgFormula02

iTrader: (13)

You need more cubes if you want to hit 500 rwhp

BALLSS

OP

from the $ noted for the full rotating assembly, gaskets, etc...I suspect it is a cast crank & hyper pistons heavier than stock

IDK why it needs a stand alone ECU but you don't note what kind of car this is in.

power is in the heads & cam. Lloyd Elliott or Advanced Induction would be the 2 places to get those.

500 "whp"...assume you mean REARWHP...no

NewOrleansLT1

For 500rwhp (or close to it) you need a forged 383 (or bigger) rotating assembly, a big cam 24X/25X .6XX/.6XX lift (or bigger), big heads 215cc (or bigger)... And willing to Rev the motor to about 6500-6800 rpm (or higher).. This is just examples and guesstimations off the top of my head..

Blackbirdws6

iTrader: (7)

Very doubtful based on the details unless he has a very generous dyno.

joelster

^^^^^This.

TheUrbz

coming from a complete newbie I could very well be mistaken, but recently I have been doing a lot of research weighing my options to keep my car N/A. I have written off stroking it to a 383 simply because of the price. with stroking it AND it being done by a shop for around 7385.81 does seem oddly cheap where I have found numerous people, on here as well, that do the work themselves to net 500+ to the wheels say "prepare to spend upwards of 10k." and that's just on the engine alone.


again newbie, but that's what ive gathered from my recent digging.

SS RRR

iTrader: (2)

Something is really wrong with that $37xx price tag for everything that's included. Most shops that would cover machine work and assembly of the engine alone.

Nostang

iTrader: (4)

500rwhp is no easy task for any streetable combo LS or LT through an auto. A cheaper route would be to just tell everyone is has 500rwhp and save his money...lol. Too many people get way too wrapped up in rwhp numbers instead of the end goal of the car. Tell your uncle to set a goal for track times and street manners then build the entire car to meet the goal. It would be a much more fun car and he would care less what the rwhp number was when it was all said and done. He should stick with a stock crank 355 with upgraded rods and pistons and do LE or AI ported stockers with a hydraulic cam chosen to meet his streetability requirements. Then he must spend money on rebuilding the trans to hold the power and pick a great torque converter matched to the combo. No need for an aftermarket pcm and the money could be better spent elsewhere for power/traction. Your uncle would be much happier in the end and have a fun street car capable of low 11's and ~390-410rwhp N/A.

atlantadan

Or build a nice, stout FORGED 383 that puts out about 400-425, and then give it some N2O when at the strip

bp92gsr

iTrader: (1)

I am still in the process of finding out the details of which parts he was quoted for. He is not terribly edcucated on this stuff and I don't want to see him get screwed. And yes 500rwhp out of a 94 z28.

I will relay this to him. Thank you!

My thoughts exactly especially through an auto.

What if his "goal" is to hit 500rwhp? lol. Im not sure he is willing to break into the trans to change torque converters however, I did recommend this to him already. I still don't know why the builder recommended a stand alone PCM. Will the factory PCM control after market injectors?

This will be a daily driven street car. He is not interested in spraying the car at this time.

BALLSS

A 500 RWHP car NA will not be real street friendly, have a huge solid lifter cam and absolutely require a serious rebuild of the weak 4L60E. Period.

Even building a 400 RWHP motor will require a built tranny to last but be WAY more street friendly in terms of drive-ability.

You DO NOT need a stand alone ECU

Given the claims of this builder and what he notes as a need for a stand alone ECU...don't have him build anything. He does not sound like he is versed enough in the LT1 platform or computer controlled cars.

The stock PCM can be programmed to deal with different injectors, cam, etc.

If your friend is confident in having this guy just R&R the motor I would:

Contact Karl Ellwein at ERE and have him build a 383 forged short block. send Karl a head/cam [package from Lloyd Elliott for the HP and driving use. Talk to both Karl & Lloyd about the intended use and HP goals so they are on the same page

http://www.ellweinengines.com/
http://elliottsportworks.com/

Get a mail order tune from PCM4Less, Ed Wright or another qualified tuner. That will be way close enough to do initial start and drive. It may take some data logging for tweaks or find a dyno shop competent in LT1 tuning and have it done there.

The mechanic buying a stand alone ECU, software, etc and figuring that out is a cluster F waiting to happen

You can have a mild 383 making 375 RWHP that would be very reliable, street friendly and even pass emissions if that is a concern. Still in that HP neighborhood a higher stall TC and a tranny built to take that kind of power and 3:73 rear gears would be my vote. No and if's or buts a stock automatic and stall the car will not perform well and the tranny will QUICKLY fail

Puck

iTrader: (17)

500 through an auto is no easy feat. That is close to 600fwhp depending on your trans/stall/rear. You need lots of air to make big power, which means either more rpms or more air moving at a given RPM...AKA you are either talking about a whole lot of rpms, or a lot of cubes. Since LT1s are limited to roughly 396ci (some castings only 383, some setups may squeeze 410 with the perfect parts and a few blocks sacrificed to find a good enough one), we need to go the high RPM route. Can't just throw cubes at it like an LS. This means you need a big cam and heads to support the high RPMs, which not only kills streetability but will be expensive...to the tune of double what you have listed, at least.

It also won't be done with 30# injectors and "mild port work" of the heads...more like 42# injectors and max ported stockers or ported aftermarket castings.

edit: Don't think I'm saying its impossible...it just will be a lot more expensive then he thinks, and a lot less streetable then he hopes.

KW Baraka

iTrader: (7)

So much about what this builder quoted to your uncle is WRONG if 500 rwhp from a LT1 is the goal. As a matter of fact, almost everything is wrong!!! Most likely (and without knowing the cam specs) this engine combo will not even get close to 400 rwhp.

My best advice to you and your uncle is to seek another 'builder' and do a LOT more research......

KW

rynb15

I think this would be the best route to take as well. This is what i plan on doing when its time for my car. Only I will have a nitrous kit hooked up for the track. Still streetable for cruising around 400hp, but make 500+hp on the spray at the track.

atlantadan

Then he needs to add at least $4k to his budget to achieve his goals. FWIW, I'd rather have an easily daily-driven 400-425 horse car that can take a fat-spray than a barely streetable and unpleasant to dd 500-600 horse car. I went the sprayable 400-425 route and got a killer emissions-friendly car that can take the kids to school as easily as a run down a track.

moehorsepower

iTrader: (3)

Bottom line, Not going to Happen, just because what everyone has said...