Where is the LT1 w/LS1 Head go?
05-26-2006, 08:02 PM
#1
Where is the LT1 w/LS1 Head go? Regardless of how silly the question was or how it was beat to death etc, here is AFR's response to what they have in Design/R&D right now for the LTx engines to help bridge the gao in head design between the LTx and LSx engines.
DOnt flame it, its just the boss at AFR responding elsewhere.
"Guys...
We have touched on this subject numerous times but inevidably a new thread comes up and it seems we must once again take the time to clear things up. The oil level in our current castings is higher than most due to extra material (aluminum) in the valley of the head. It does NOT cause additional oil consumption because the oil level is still very much below the top of the guide seals...there are thousands (literally) of AFR customers running around without oil consumption issues, all of whom are running the same type of casting. It can be an inconvenience if you run a mechanical valvetrain and have to remove the valve covers occassionally to adjust them....with some heads oil will overflow a little over the top....others the oil level is just below. The difference simpy is how much material is there when it came out of the mold....castings will vary slightly from one head to the next, one of the reasons a fully CNC ported head is a good move assuming the porting program is worth it's salt.
On to the better news....I would also like to confirm that we are in fact about to release a complete re-design on our entire 23' Chevy line. We are calling it the Eliminator line and it will address ALL the issues typically found on this board (oil return, casting issues, lead times, etc.) as well as raise the bar in 23' performance to all new levels by infusing some technology brought to us with the Gen III stuff (LS program) as well as a dramatic improvement in flow numbers, with the focus of the redesign concentrating on strong low and midlift flow, early "peak" numbers, and small cross sectional area. This is a complete "clean sheet of paper" approach....castings, hardware, port designs....everything has been optimized and improved.
I'm not at liberty just yet to discuss actual flow figures, but suffice to say we have worked long and hard at producing a 23' head that is the most efficient piece we have ever tested when comparing flow numbers and cross sectional area (the goal being high airspeed without restricting volume). Our new 195 "street" package will flow in the 280-290 CFM range @ .600 lift (with a 1205 Felpro entrance and a 2.05 valve)....our new 195 "Comp" package will flow in the neighborhood of 300 CFM's at the same lift with a larger 1206 entrance and a 2.08 valve (unheard of numbers in such a small head....our new Comp 195 outflows our current 210 cc offering). The low and midlift flow also shows solid gains as well over our current offerings and the exhaust ports have also been dramatically improved and refined (230+ CFM in our Comp 195).
Other big news with this product is the switch to lighter 8 mm valves and lighter springs and retainers which have been proving themselves in the Gen III LS market for years. Valve float will be minimized and much higher RPM's will be able to be attained with both the lighter valvetrain components and of course complimented by the additional airflow the new designs will provide.
The first heads to be available will be our 180 and 195 versions....the larger 200cc+ race heads are currently being developed and will trail the release of the street stuff by a couple of months at least. Look to see some of the new street heads trickling in to dealers and private individuals in the next two months or so. There will also be alot of magazine tests in the future as well....they have been chomping at the bit to try these ever since we released the information to them some time ago.
I dont want to hijack this thread so please dont ask a lot of questions just yet....I just wanted to again clear up a myth concerning our current product and also share whats on the near term horizon concerning AFR so anyone in the market for heads would have this info to consider. I'm confident our entire Eliminator line will push the envelope of "bolt on" 23 degree performance to all new levels....and if you don't believe the "hype", sit back and keep an eye out for the dyno and track results.....you won't be disappointed.
Tony Mamo
AFR Sales / Product Design Mgr.
(818)890-0616 Ext. 109
DOnt flame it, its just the boss at AFR responding elsewhere.
"Guys...
We have touched on this subject numerous times but inevidably a new thread comes up and it seems we must once again take the time to clear things up. The oil level in our current castings is higher than most due to extra material (aluminum) in the valley of the head. It does NOT cause additional oil consumption because the oil level is still very much below the top of the guide seals...there are thousands (literally) of AFR customers running around without oil consumption issues, all of whom are running the same type of casting. It can be an inconvenience if you run a mechanical valvetrain and have to remove the valve covers occassionally to adjust them....with some heads oil will overflow a little over the top....others the oil level is just below. The difference simpy is how much material is there when it came out of the mold....castings will vary slightly from one head to the next, one of the reasons a fully CNC ported head is a good move assuming the porting program is worth it's salt.
On to the better news....I would also like to confirm that we are in fact about to release a complete re-design on our entire 23' Chevy line. We are calling it the Eliminator line and it will address ALL the issues typically found on this board (oil return, casting issues, lead times, etc.) as well as raise the bar in 23' performance to all new levels by infusing some technology brought to us with the Gen III stuff (LS program) as well as a dramatic improvement in flow numbers, with the focus of the redesign concentrating on strong low and midlift flow, early "peak" numbers, and small cross sectional area. This is a complete "clean sheet of paper" approach....castings, hardware, port designs....everything has been optimized and improved.
I'm not at liberty just yet to discuss actual flow figures, but suffice to say we have worked long and hard at producing a 23' head that is the most efficient piece we have ever tested when comparing flow numbers and cross sectional area (the goal being high airspeed without restricting volume). Our new 195 "street" package will flow in the 280-290 CFM range @ .600 lift (with a 1205 Felpro entrance and a 2.05 valve)....our new 195 "Comp" package will flow in the neighborhood of 300 CFM's at the same lift with a larger 1206 entrance and a 2.08 valve (unheard of numbers in such a small head....our new Comp 195 outflows our current 210 cc offering). The low and midlift flow also shows solid gains as well over our current offerings and the exhaust ports have also been dramatically improved and refined (230+ CFM in our Comp 195).
Other big news with this product is the switch to lighter 8 mm valves and lighter springs and retainers which have been proving themselves in the Gen III LS market for years. Valve float will be minimized and much higher RPM's will be able to be attained with both the lighter valvetrain components and of course complimented by the additional airflow the new designs will provide.
The first heads to be available will be our 180 and 195 versions....the larger 200cc+ race heads are currently being developed and will trail the release of the street stuff by a couple of months at least. Look to see some of the new street heads trickling in to dealers and private individuals in the next two months or so. There will also be alot of magazine tests in the future as well....they have been chomping at the bit to try these ever since we released the information to them some time ago.
I dont want to hijack this thread so please dont ask a lot of questions just yet....I just wanted to again clear up a myth concerning our current product and also share whats on the near term horizon concerning AFR so anyone in the market for heads would have this info to consider. I'm confident our entire Eliminator line will push the envelope of "bolt on" 23 degree performance to all new levels....and if you don't believe the "hype", sit back and keep an eye out for the dyno and track results.....you won't be disappointed.
Tony Mamo
AFR Sales / Product Design Mgr.
(818)890-0616 Ext. 109
05-27-2006, 12:25 PM
#5
Originally Posted by 96capricemgr
Yeah salesman are the most honest and objective of people 
05-27-2006, 01:14 PM
#6
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Originally Posted by Steve40th
96capricemgr, Is it possibel for you to just stick to the topic. Either a repsonse in regards to the product or no response at all.
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05-27-2006, 01:45 PM
#9
Originally Posted by hammrman31
agreed
Last edited by Steve40th; 05-27-2006 at 03:22 PM.
05-28-2006, 01:21 AM
#11
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Originally Posted by Speed Density
Caprice has a whole lot more knowledge than half the guys i see on here.
Tony.
Tony.
05-28-2006, 07:59 AM
#12
Originally Posted by 96capricemgr
Yeah salesman are the most honest and objective of people
Originally Posted by 383LT1S10
No, he is a professional *******. They never take breaks
I have never liked AFR pricing. I'm more into Dart's pricings they seem less greedy.
But seriously what did happen to the damm thread?? Can u guys fill me in on the later responses? This SUCKS this is the first time I see this approach here at LS1tech. We got some control freak moderator out there. Their shut it down, censorship approach to things has ruined other sites, and I really hope this site is not jumping on the same bandwagon. As far as I saw there was nothing wrong with our arguements and they were kept decent. What was the problem with the thread???
Lets take a poll, who here was left in a dark corner, crying and bibbling on himself, and contemplating suicide, popping prozac and searching for a new meaning of life, after reading this "oh so highly offensive" thread?
We want the thread back, we were resolving it on our own, and that's more interesting than a shut down. You should take pride in the fact that our own members not moderators were working things out. I would think that would be a goal for a forum.
05-28-2006, 07:26 PM
#14
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great... i'll be calling AFR tommorrow morning or have my engine builder contact them prior to my CASH LADEN AFR 227's going on the motor..... although i don't think it would matter since when a company says "a few months" they usually mean more like a year or more....
05-29-2006, 01:20 AM
#17
Here's the thing though: if you go to AFR's website, they have already changed the heading at the top of the page for both the 180cc and 195cc LTx heads to "Eliminator," but the actual descriptions themselves don't seem to match up to what the guy in that thread said. Nothing about 8mm valves, nothing about a "whole new design." The #'s in the flow charts appear to be the same as well. Pretty confusing.
05-29-2006, 01:57 AM
#19
I agree with post 17/18. When its out, great, but I was told via email its original date was March/APril, and to get ahold of TPIS because they had something to do with it. Wether that is true, as I never called or emailed TPIS, or not it doesnt matter.
05-29-2006, 02:57 AM
#20
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Originally Posted by 383LT1S10
That doesn't really mean much since half this site is young kids with their first cars and not real technicians. No matter how much knowledge he posesses if he's an *** no one cares to listen to it. His level of knowledge by far does NOT warrant his ******* attitude.