fruitsalad

iTrader: (5)

When I try to put the car in gear the clutch goes to a couple centimeters off the floor and will engage just a tiny bit but not really.

If I take my shoe off, grab it with my toes, and pull it back up, then pump it repeatedly in that manner, it slowly comes off the floor and gets close to the normal grab point, and from there it will usually fully disengage if I kick it. When it gets into gear, it will be ok for a few seconds, then it will start to roll forward and stall soon after (so it's gradually re-engaging as I have it pressed to the floor.)

After engaging it once, for example shifting into first from a stop and starting to move, (I can get rolling if I do it quick enough, it just lurches) I have to pump it again to do the next shift, and the next, so I have to pump it every time it goes down.

Does this sound like the symptoms of a typically bad stock master? By the symptoms it seems like it's leaking somewhere which is causing the gradual re-engagement when I have the pedal on the floor. Or is this a bad slave? I have already attempted to bleed the master using a Mityvac, but that didn't really help.

Or does this sound like there's excess air in the lines that I didn't get with the Mityvac?

SPEC-01

iTrader: (2)

Two real possibilities: 1) air in the system that can be fixed with a vacuum bleeder or pressure-bleeder. 2) bleed-by is occurring past the seals in either the Slave or Master cylinder.

You can disconnect the line that runs from the Master to the Slave and then apply gentle but steady pressure to the pedal. If the pedal drops then the Master is bypassing fluid. Try it and keep us posted!

fruitsalad

iTrader: (5)

I will try that line disconnect method. I did try a vacuum bleed but even after the air bubbles stopped appearing I didn't have any improvement in pedal feel or pressure. The fluid that came out of the line was also really dirty, so I'm going to try a gravity bleed (the pain in the *** one) to get the dirty stuff out and then a vacuum bleed with all clean fluid.

Given the dirty fluid however you may be right about the blowby in one of the cylinders; hopefully the master.

Thanks for the help and I'll keep Spec in mind when the LS6 clutch finally gives out!

SPEC-01

iTrader: (2)

If you bleed and bleed and can't get the system to maintain consistent pressure then bypass is the most likely cause. Keep me posted on what you find! Thanks for the consideration!

fruitsalad

iTrader: (5)

Update: Have bled a decent amount, screwed up a few times and let a little air get into the system but bled for longer after that. Tested the pedal out after bleeding and after two pumps of not very much pressure it felt good. It was grabbing and disengaging near the top and would come all the way back up. Left the car, came back later to test drive it, started it up, went to put it in reverse and got the same response as before I started bleeding, which is a lazy pedal that would grab near the floor, not disengage all the way, barely allow me to put it in gear, would not come back up, would sink down after being pressed, and if I could get it in gear, would idle for a few seconds and then gradually stall out. Turned it off without moving it and let it sit, came back, tried the pedal without starting it and it still sucked; I found that if I pressed my foot lightly on it, it would slowly sink all the way down.

Sound like a bad master? Or just an incomplete bleed?

I haven't yet tried taking out the quick disconnect line because I couldn't get it off--from what I understand you're supposed to push down on the little plastic ring and then pull it right out? I'm going to try again tomorrow but I haven't had any luck.

From my research on this sinking pedal symptom it sounds like bad seals in the master because that's what everyone else who had this symptom has concluded. Should I give up and get a new one?

SPEC-01

iTrader: (2)

I agree that it is likely caused by bleed-by and this is generally related to leaks within the master cylinder. If I were going to throw a part at it, without actually checking to confirm, it would be the master.

fruitsalad

iTrader: (5)

I see what you're saying lol. I'm going to get under it again today and give that quick disconnect another try to confirm, but I'm almost positive now that it's a bad master.

pewterformula

iTrader: (2)

The experts have spoken above, but I when I put a Spec Stage 3 clutch in my Formula back in 2001, I kept blowing the seals on the stock master cylinder. I had to upgrade to aftermarket before it would hold up. And a side note from past experience on my previous F-body, I recommend Spec clutches. I had good luck with mine back then, and will probably put one in my Camaro.

PaulC

Car had the same problem. I eventually lost all feed back with clutch pedal. I decided to add more clutch fluid after I saw the reservoir was bone dry. When I looked under my car after I pumped the clutch I saw a puddle of clutch fluid under my transmission below the bell housing. Indicative of a leaky slave.

fruitsalad

iTrader: (5)

This is what I'm afraid of.

I don't see any leakage after I pump the clutch, and the reservoir stays at whatever level I leave it at, but it seems like this is more of a slave issue. Still haven't gotten it up on ramps to try disconnecting the master to slave line though.

Did you end up replacing your slave?

SPEC-01

iTrader: (2)

Keep in mind that you can bypass fluid internally and never loose any real volume from the system. It moves beyond the seals (internally) and them moves back as pressure is applied and released.

fruitsalad

iTrader: (5)

I think I'm going to throw a stock style master at it and see if that does the trick. I was getting all the symptoms of a failing or inadequate master prior to this; occasional sticky pedal, high rpm lockout, etc. I was intending to eventually do an adjustable master but given my lack of decision as to whether it's master or slave now, I don't know that I can justify throwing a $300+ part at it without knowing if that's going to fix it when I might be on the hook for a lot more if it turns out to be the slave.

After sitting for ~2 days there didn't appear to be any fluid dripping from the bellhousing and after pumping the pedal pretty thoroughly with the car off there was no evidence of leakage. I'm hoping that may mean the slave is ok.

fruitsalad

iTrader: (5)

Update: threw a parts store master at it with the intention of getting a Tick if it worked, and it did. Had to bleed and bleed and bleed and bleed but that's what it was.