TImmy_Jones

iTrader: (4)

xxxxx

Z28_LT1

iTrader: (2)

Sounds like its the tune to me. Not the first time I've heard of people having problems with mail order tunes. If I was you, I'd have a local guy really dial it in...

TImmy_Jones

iTrader: (4)

No can do....closest dyno is in mass...1.5 hours away. No way in hell im driving that far.

Hoping I can get my stock tune back and just have my codes deleted...

Anyone else on here tune PCMs?? I know i spoke with one guy, but lost his number. I really want my car back, it was BEAST untuned, now it as slow as my civic was that I traded for it.

Z28_LT1

iTrader: (2)

Yeah, if its that bad, I wouldn't be driving it anyways. Lean conditions are harder on the car. Only other option I see is getting that PCM back from Frost, like you said.

There are a couple guys on here that do mail order tunes, but I don't know who they are. Maybe Frost will cut you a deal once he gets your message...

TImmy_Jones

iTrader: (4)

I hope so, I know he is a standup guy. Thats why I never meant for the thread to bash him, he runs a business and **** happens.


My other question!! Are all tunes IDENTICAL from the factory for each and every LS1-6speed pontiac car made in 1998?? I just want my stock tune back, I hope its as easy as reseting the PCM.

TImmy_Jones

iTrader: (4)

Basic frost tune. $140 for the piece... Where are you located?? How much would you charge for a reflash with just dummy codes and skip shift deleted?

TImmy_Jones

iTrader: (4)

Update from Frost

Here is an email he sent me, does this sound right?

"Sometimes people have a hard time accepting it, but the MAF on your car is BAD. The MAF sets all base fueling and controls all WOT fueling as well. The reason you don't get the codes on the stock tune is that the stock tune is VERY rich at WOT. The trouble with MAFs when they go bad is that there is no direct MAF code to set for their failure mode, but you DO get the too lean codes. The MAF continues to report, but it reports VERY low. These cars are aging, and I have replaced a dozen MAFs so far this year on local cars. Trust me, a derivative of your tune has been used on over 1,000 cars with similar mods. Here are two things you can do/look for that prove my point on the MAF: The FIRST and easy one is to just use a scanner. I RICHEN up the MAF curve to about 7kHz. Anything above that is WOT (and from the factory, is already rich). I do this to drive the trims at cruise slightly negative to keep them from interfering with WOT. If your MAF IS bad, your LTFTs and STFTs will be very much positive; usually over 20% and both sides will be this way. The second way is (though you should do both, and in this order) physical proof in driving. Your car has underlying speed density component for when a MAF outright fails. It used a VE table for fueling. Unhook your battery to reset fuel trims, and unplug the MAF. Start the car up and let it run up to temp. You will be down 4 degrees of timing (its a factory precaution) so it will feel a little slower at WOT, but the codes will never set. You can verify this by looking at trims. With the MAF connected, both were very high. With it unplugged, it should be within 10% all over or even negative (not likely in this heat though!) after it re-learns. And then, when plugging the MAF back in, trims will shoot back up.

The RIGHT approach here is to replace the MAF."

MAF bad?? Even though it didnt pop a code with the stock tune. I may take his word and try to replace the MAF. obviously stok replacement, but where should I go? VIP? AUTOZONE?

Anyone have a writeup?

TImmy_Jones

iTrader: (4)

I will pull it out this weekend, I guess im not sure to go stock, or one he reccomends? I think the SLP MAF is a bit more expensive...I left the screen in the MAF, would that matter?

GOnna pull it out this weekend and check it out. Clean it with rubbing alcohol and a Qtip? I know to be very careful.

PontiacFan

iTrader: (104)

I agreee, One of the first things a tuner will do is clean the MAF to make sure there are no false readings or errors.
Clean it, with the proper MAF cleaner from your local auto parts store.
Also make sure there are no exhaust leaks either.
Then start looking at codes & changes, ...

TImmy_Jones

iTrader: (4)

MAF is off the car, just sprayed it with MAF cleaner...letting it dry and reseting the battery.

Exhaust DOES NOT LEAK, welded together and band clamps on the catback. If this doesnt work....maybe some carb cleaner near the intake manifold and vac lines...hope I dont find anything there.

TImmy_Jones

iTrader: (4)

Do our throttle bodies come stock with a little hole drilled in them? I hope this isnt a dumb question, but I noticed mine had a hole in it, which I know some people will drill if they have a big cam.

Hole is very small and on the bottom half of the blade.

TImmy_Jones

iTrader: (4)

Didn't do anything while th epcm was out. Just disconnected battery and let the car sit. So today I cleaned the maf and left the battery unplugged for a few hours. Put the key to ON and my ses light was on...shouldn't it be gone??? What the heck. No more backfiring, but after being on for a minute i put it in 1st and drove 20 ft forward. CAr seemed to idle really rough. Should I go drive it?? Just don't wanna make it worse. It idles very rough, all vac lines are connected and fine. Hmmmmm may go buy a scanner and see if the code stays the same.

Tomorrow I'll try it with the maf unplugged.

TImmy_Jones

iTrader: (4)

Started the car again and drove it about a half mile, no backfiring and the idle seems better, unless I just BARELY rest my foot on the peddle, then it stutters....but the SES light is still on...very weird. I thought it would absolutely reset after unplugging the battery.

I will drive it a bit more tomorrow, MAF may have been dirty, just strange timing with the NEW pcm, but it still doesnt seem right, unless I can bring it out and drive it.

BRO, thanks for all the quick replies. If I am still coming up empty handed, I may buy a cheap scan gauge.

How long would the light stay on before it reset itself? First closed loop fuel cycle?

I would be feeling a lot better except the SES is still on, I should really scan the code, damnit.

TImmy_Jones

iTrader: (4)

Unless there is a serious problem??? uh oh, like what?? Now I'm scared.

battery was completely disconnected (+ and -) for a few hours...

flintwrench69

iTrader: (11)

Being disconnected for that long shouldve cleared out any set codes. Get it scanned. Have the zone scan it, they will do it for free. Why did you get a mail order tune? If you got it for your mods in sig all you really needed was delete rear o2 codes & disable the AIR pump. Being an M6 car IMO a tune wont help you much with LTs & intake. I know MAFs get dirty & go bad but its really odd to me why youre car didnt run bad at all before you installed a mail order tuned PCM & the MAF is suddenly bad after.

Frost

iTrader: (45)

That's a DAMN LIE, I have NEVER EVER had a PCM back more than two times except for one boondocks customer with a MS4/FAST/402 that couldn't get to a real tuner.

You know enough to be dangerous.... everybody with software thinks they are a tuner. It's been maybe two/three weeks since you were over in the PCM section asking the most basic questions (which I took the time to answer for you even though this isn't the first time I've found you telling lies about my work); don't try and act like you are an old pro here. I've done 6-700 mail order tunes for members of this board; if there was some kind of big problem, the cat would have been out of the bag long ago. As a matter of fact, my post history )and name as a search term) can be looked at by anyone. Except for you, I don't know of a single person on this board that has issue with me. There may be someone, but it's never gotten back to me. I spend all of my time helping customers. I am just now getting to bed (yes, after 5am) from a day full of tuning cars in real life and then just now getting done with the nearly 100 emails that I got today.

After you pass the hobby part of this, you will understand what low reporting is and how it IS the mode of failure.... it goes like this:
https://ls1tech.com/forums/13423674-post37.html

Frost

iTrader: (45)

Since the original poster wants all of this out here, this is the last email I sent him:

Hey James,

the thing with fuel trims is this.... when they are negative, and you go WOT, all correction ceases until you come out of WOT. When they are POSITIVE, they lock in and ADD to WOT. If they are adding some crazy 25% (maxed out) at cruise, they lock in and drown the car at WOT. So much fuel that it can't be burned and it loads up in the exhaust and backfires. It will kill O2s, cats, etc. Having this problem on both banks is a give away. It's better for the car to just unplug the MAF (the car will set the SES light for P0101-0102) and let it run speed density. Your heavy throttle timing will be a little low, but the car should run much better. When you do this, unhook the battery for about 15 seconds too in order to reset all of that crazy fuel learning the car had on the bad MAF. Do it and see how much better the car runs. It may take it a minute to fail the MAF and run right, just stay at it until it cranks and runs if it doesn't do it right away; all the other learning is lost when the battery got unhooked as well. It will learn fuel and idle within the first 20 miles of driving or sooner. That bad MAF will ruin gas mileage as well.

Frost

iTrader: (45)

Right, that's what "you were told" just like before... and not knowing the truth doesn't keep you from pretending like you do. When he replaces the bad MAF and car works right are you going to be back here saying "sorry I don't know what I'm talking about?" No, but at least I'll have this thread to link to as you follow me around.

If you know what you are looking (and again it sure doesn't sound like like it) you'd notice that the MAF curves ARE fatter than stock. You will notice that WOT is set only about a half point leaner than stock... If you got in a car and it had positive trimming at that point, why would you think it was the tune? Again of course it'd be that you don't know what you are looking at. It's not like passing the buck, you should KNOW that when the MAF is hooked up that all base fueling comes from what it reports. This isn't rocket science. What do you THINK that the problem is when a fatter than stock curved car still reports high positive trimming? I guess that tune just "doesn't work" right?

Two weeks ago (shop and dyno were moving this last week so I only had 1 car) I had 4 boltons cars. Three of them got the mail order equivalent and in two pulls were dialed in on the dyno. One of them from the west side of the state already had a mail order and had HIGH positive trims when I first hooked. He replaced the MAF and they went from locked full positive to -6 to -3 everywhere. If that's a tune problem, it's sure odd that a working MAF cured it. I guess that was another one that "don't work".

That makes 13 MAFs I have sent customers to replace since February. Guess what, these cars are OLD. There were a goon number last year and even more this year. Next year, there will be even more. I can't verify their operation before they come in the door; the owners have to know that there car is sound when they do mail order tuning.

I have a money back guarantee on programming and the OP is welcome to return the PCM to return to stock programming for a full refund.

MUSTANGBRKR02

iTrader: (91)

Steve is one of the best tuners around. I have HPT and he still helps me all the time with tuning. He has also tuned numerous other cars in the area and they have never had a problem.

Going off here say is just as bad as lying. When people talk about problems they are always exaggerated.

You will not find a better tuner/person on the board then Frost. He spends the majority of his day helping friends and customers with problems/questions with never receiving anything back in return but a simple thank you.

AFASTYZFR1

iTrader: (55)

TImmy_Jones your car has a mechanical failure so stop trying to think it's anything else Frost is one of the best LSx tuners out there and I have had other tuners attempt to tune my car before I knew about him. Your car has bolt-on mods, he can tune your car with his eyes closed

The next step to get you car running is to listen to Frost and not all these other idiots If cleaning your MAF didn't work replace it with another GM one!

Frost has TONS of experience and my procharged 750+ horsepower car runs perfectly. No issues at all.

So stop being a tard and listen to Frost on how to fix your car because it's NOT in the tune, I guarantee you that! It's not like he makes money off you buying parts so why would he lie



You haven't heard of many problems with Frost's mail order tunes and any threads you did see I'm 100 % positive they had mechanical issues






Bro Inc your a retard and don't know **** about tuning so shut your mouth. Your the guy that "helps" people with their tune and then their **** blows up so just until you know what your talking about