Rotary Guy Lookin For Some Info
04-21-2004, 06:58 PM
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Rotary Guy Lookin For Some Info Hi all.
I currently own a 93 RX-7 but down the road I'm planning to build a solid V8 FI 280z.
I was wondering what I'd have to do get the motor to handle upwards of 500+hp. A ported 13B can handle 500+ hp with some tuning and a big enough turbo without much of a problem 
, cooling isn't a problem with the right mods, the tranny can usually take that much with an upgraded clutch, and the chassy with a few mods is more than stiff enough to take the power in a stright line or on the twisties, but I have no idea what to do with pistons. They're a foreign concept to me.
I'm relatively versed in the basics of how a piston engine works and the I understand valves, cams and such, but I really don't know what I need to do build up a motor right or what I would need to do to make my SC V8 280Z last.
I had a few questions that I was hoping someone could answer. Here I go:
1) What's the displacement difference between a SBC and a BBC and the power difference?
2) What do I need to the motor itself to make it able to handle that much power?
3) Do V8's respond better to moderate size turbo's or superchargers in both daily driving and drag racing applications?
4) What are the major pitfalls in creating big power in V8's?
5) What aftermarket ECU's and tuning shops are in the MD area?
6) (This is for anyone with a Z on the forum) What type of chassy reinforcement do I need to do assuming there is minimal rust on the body?
7) How likely is it that I'l be able to pass emmissions tests in MD if I go with a straight pipe all the way to the exhaust assuming good tuning?
8) Is there anything that in my short-sightedness that I forgot to ask?
Thanks in advance. I look forward to learning about the magical world of pistons.
-Chris
I currently own a 93 RX-7 but down the road I'm planning to build a solid V8 FI 280z.
I was wondering what I'd have to do get the motor to handle upwards of 500+hp. A ported 13B can handle 500+ hp with some tuning and a big enough turbo without much of a problem , cooling isn't a problem with the right mods, the tranny can usually take that much with an upgraded clutch, and the chassy with a few mods is more than stiff enough to take the power in a stright line or on the twisties, but I have no idea what to do with pistons. They're a foreign concept to me. I'm relatively versed in the basics of how a piston engine works and the I understand valves, cams and such, but I really don't know what I need to do build up a motor right or what I would need to do to make my SC V8 280Z last.
I had a few questions that I was hoping someone could answer. Here I go:
1) What's the displacement difference between a SBC and a BBC and the power difference?
2) What do I need to the motor itself to make it able to handle that much power?
3) Do V8's respond better to moderate size turbo's or superchargers in both daily driving and drag racing applications?
4) What are the major pitfalls in creating big power in V8's?
5) What aftermarket ECU's and tuning shops are in the MD area?
6) (This is for anyone with a Z on the forum) What type of chassy reinforcement do I need to do assuming there is minimal rust on the body?
7) How likely is it that I'l be able to pass emmissions tests in MD if I go with a straight pipe all the way to the exhaust assuming good tuning?
8) Is there anything that in my short-sightedness that I forgot to ask?
Thanks in advance. I look forward to learning about the magical world of pistons.
-Chris
04-21-2004, 09:47 PM
#3
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There is a hybrid section on here that can help with the conversion.
lemme see if i can help:
1) Lots. It all depends on which BBC you are companring...409, 427, 454, 502....
2) It depends on which way you want to go about it... N/A, Turbo, Supercharger...
3) The forced induction section can help you there. My best answer is "it depends".
4) Depends on how you make the power. The universal pitfal is fuel consumption.
5) dunno
6) SFC and STB are a good start. Maybe a cage if your that serious
7) dunno, but that doesnt help
8) maybe, dunno
I'm no expert btw. I'm just giving it a shot.
--VIP1
lemme see if i can help:
1) Lots. It all depends on which BBC you are companring...409, 427, 454, 502....
2) It depends on which way you want to go about it... N/A, Turbo, Supercharger...
3) The forced induction section can help you there. My best answer is "it depends".
4) Depends on how you make the power. The universal pitfal is fuel consumption.
5) dunno
6) SFC and STB are a good start. Maybe a cage if your that serious
7) dunno, but that doesnt help
8) maybe, dunno
I'm no expert btw. I'm just giving it a shot.
--VIP1
04-21-2004, 10:55 PM
#4
First of all, are you talking about making 500 hp at the flywheel or to the ground. There are plenty of heads & cam setups making 500 to the flywheel, you wouldn't even need to go forced induction if you don't want to. I would be looking at ls1's, not sbc or bbc if weight or emissions are a concern.
04-22-2004, 08:00 AM
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i have a 1980 280z right now, and i looked into the issue. puttin an ls1 into that engine bay is gonna require some major cuttin and mangling. all v8's are big motors, and ls1's, while decently compact(in some ppl's eyes) are no exception.
the motor itself? if you're talking about building a rock solid 500rwhp car, i'd forge the entire bottom end. forged pistons, rods, crank, reinforced main caps, new bolts. if you're going to replace all of that anyhow, you might as well do the 383 stroker, and then put an ATI Procharger on top of it. its what i plan on doing down the road. with that in mind, you should get a good set of stg 2 heads, and a good sized cam. somewhere in the 23x range, with the blower and the CI on your side, you'll be making well over 500 horses at the rear wheels.
its an expensive build up, but if you're going to do it, do it right the first time, imho. keep us posted on how this goes, and like they said, check out the Hybrid section, more ppl will know 280z specifics. great info all over the site for ls1's in general tho.
the motor itself? if you're talking about building a rock solid 500rwhp car, i'd forge the entire bottom end. forged pistons, rods, crank, reinforced main caps, new bolts. if you're going to replace all of that anyhow, you might as well do the 383 stroker, and then put an ATI Procharger on top of it. its what i plan on doing down the road. with that in mind, you should get a good set of stg 2 heads, and a good sized cam. somewhere in the 23x range, with the blower and the CI on your side, you'll be making well over 500 horses at the rear wheels.
its an expensive build up, but if you're going to do it, do it right the first time, imho. keep us posted on how this goes, and like they said, check out the Hybrid section, more ppl will know 280z specifics. great info all over the site for ls1's in general tho.
04-22-2004, 08:04 AM
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5) What aftermarket ECU's and tuning shops are in the MD area?
If you are going with an LS1, F-Body Central is local and they do a great job. They are the primary sponsor here:
Eastern F-Body Association
7) How likely is it that I'll be able to pass emissions tests in MD if I go with a straight pipe all the way to the exhaust assuming good tuning?
If you can do an ODBII test, you can pass no problem. If you have to go on the rollers, you will fail. Which test depends on the year of the car. Depending on the year of 280z, you may be exempt anyway. Click the link below for all the emissions info you could ever need
Maryland VEIP
If you are going with an LS1, F-Body Central is local and they do a great job. They are the primary sponsor here:
Eastern F-Body Association
7) How likely is it that I'll be able to pass emissions tests in MD if I go with a straight pipe all the way to the exhaust assuming good tuning?
If you can do an ODBII test, you can pass no problem. If you have to go on the rollers, you will fail. Which test depends on the year of the car. Depending on the year of 280z, you may be exempt anyway. Click the link below for all the emissions info you could ever need
Maryland VEIP
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04-22-2004, 08:07 AM
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Originally Posted by P Mack
First of all, are you talking about making 500 hp at the flywheel or to the ground. There are plenty of heads & cam setups making 500 to the flywheel, you wouldn't even need to go forced induction if you don't want to. I would be looking at ls1's, not sbc or bbc if weight or emissions are a concern.
04-22-2004, 09:45 AM
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Originally Posted by chris_chung125
Hi all.
I currently own a 93 RX-7 but down the road I'm planning to build a solid V8 FI 280z. I was wondering what I'd have to do get the motor to handle upwards of 500+hp. A ported 13B can handle 500+ hp with some tuning and a big enough turbo without much of a problem , cooling isn't a problem with the right mods, the tranny can usually take that much with an upgraded clutch, and the chassy with a few mods is more than stiff enough to take the power in a stright line or on the twisties, but I have no idea what to do with pistons. They're a foreign concept to me.
I'm relatively versed in the basics of how a piston engine works and the I understand valves, cams and such, but I really don't know what I need to do build up a motor right or what I would need to do to make my SC V8 280Z last.
I had a few questions that I was hoping someone could answer. Here I go:
1) What's the displacement difference between a SBC and a BBC and the power difference?
2) What do I need to the motor itself to make it able to handle that much power?
3) Do V8's respond better to moderate size turbo's or superchargers in both daily driving and drag racing applications?
4) What are the major pitfalls in creating big power in V8's?
5) What aftermarket ECU's and tuning shops are in the MD area?
6) (This is for anyone with a Z on the forum) What type of chassy reinforcement do I need to do assuming there is minimal rust on the body?
7) How likely is it that I'l be able to pass emmissions tests in MD if I go with a straight pipe all the way to the exhaust assuming good tuning?
8) Is there anything that in my short-sightedness that I forgot to ask?
Thanks in advance. I look forward to learning about the magical world of pistons.
-Chris
I currently own a 93 RX-7 but down the road I'm planning to build a solid V8 FI 280z.
I was wondering what I'd have to do get the motor to handle upwards of 500+hp. A ported 13B can handle 500+ hp with some tuning and a big enough turbo without much of a problem , cooling isn't a problem with the right mods, the tranny can usually take that much with an upgraded clutch, and the chassy with a few mods is more than stiff enough to take the power in a stright line or on the twisties, but I have no idea what to do with pistons. They're a foreign concept to me. I'm relatively versed in the basics of how a piston engine works and the I understand valves, cams and such, but I really don't know what I need to do build up a motor right or what I would need to do to make my SC V8 280Z last.
I had a few questions that I was hoping someone could answer. Here I go:
1) What's the displacement difference between a SBC and a BBC and the power difference?
2) What do I need to the motor itself to make it able to handle that much power?
3) Do V8's respond better to moderate size turbo's or superchargers in both daily driving and drag racing applications?
4) What are the major pitfalls in creating big power in V8's?
5) What aftermarket ECU's and tuning shops are in the MD area?
6) (This is for anyone with a Z on the forum) What type of chassy reinforcement do I need to do assuming there is minimal rust on the body?
7) How likely is it that I'l be able to pass emmissions tests in MD if I go with a straight pipe all the way to the exhaust assuming good tuning?
8) Is there anything that in my short-sightedness that I forgot to ask?
Thanks in advance. I look forward to learning about the magical world of pistons.
-Chris
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04-22-2004, 02:32 PM
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Thanks for the info. Just a few more questions. How much does it really cost to build a supercharged ls1 if daily drivability is an issue and everything being on the safe side? What are the common parts that are usually changed when building a LS1? What is the average drive train loss from the motor to wheels because 500 whp was my original goal.
The 20b is a bit cost prohibative for me even though it's probably my favorite motor to tell you the truth. The thing I like about rotaries is how smooth the power is accross the band and to tell you the truth reliability with rotaries aren't really that bad if it's tuned properly (aka no short cuts or half-assing any mods). The thing I like about the V8's is the fact that its a tried and true engine swap into the Z that's relatively inexpensive to work on. That and the low end grunt doesnt hurt either.
Thanks again.
-Chris
The 20b is a bit cost prohibative for me even though it's probably my favorite motor to tell you the truth. The thing I like about rotaries is how smooth the power is accross the band and to tell you the truth reliability with rotaries aren't really that bad if it's tuned properly (aka no short cuts or half-assing any mods). The thing I like about the V8's is the fact that its a tried and true engine swap into the Z that's relatively inexpensive to work on. That and the low end grunt doesnt hurt either.
Thanks again.
-Chris
04-22-2004, 04:38 PM
#13
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Originally Posted by chris_chung125
What is the average drive train loss from the motor to wheels because 500 whp was my original goal.
It depends on the transmission (Auto vs. Manual),
driveshaft (material/weight/balance),
torque converter (stall speed/weight) or flywheel (weight),
rear ratio.
The lube in all these components also can make a marginal difference.
--VIP1