Potential purchase, things to beware, etc
03-20-2014, 04:50 AM
#1
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Potential purchase, things to beware, etc First of all, great forum. I did some searching and maybe my terms weren't that hot, but here goes.
Never had an F-body before, been in a couple (and have memories from one quality night where T-tops proved their worth) but that's all beside the point.
My awesome wife is 100% on board with fixing the gap in our household with a dedicated 'toy' so to speak. Used to have a sleeper ex-county GMC sierra with a rather nasty 396 in it, but had to offload that for various reasons.
I dug around here and picked up this interim list of "specific" things to look out for with F-body cars. I'll bold what I have specific questions about, and would appreciate anything anyone has to add for a first time used buyer of (hopefully) our genre of cars. Here goes:
Also, the vehicle I'm specifically starting my search with had the interior removed (but it's all there, just out) due to it having the start of a track car change. Anything I should be looking at/for since the carpet's all out of it?
Following all of this... the intent of this is to be a more economical (har har) vehicle than my big diesel crew cab, fun transportation that's also comfortable. Provided I get the one I'm looking at, at the price I'm looking at, I'll have about 3k in "excess funds" to be able to throw at it.
What should I be doing for a "freshen up" on the vehicle given its age?
Lastly, what modifications would you guys recommend for a recreational/daily driver carrying a family of 3, with a possible foray into autocross as well as a couple runs at the local 1/4 mile?
I know that the two pretty much don't mix as per all the stickies, but I am sure there's a balance to be found... and hope you guys have some suggestions where that balance might lie at, given the obvious experience I've seen just reading around here.
Thanks!
Never had an F-body before, been in a couple (and have memories from one quality night where T-tops proved their worth) but that's all beside the point.
My awesome wife is 100% on board with fixing the gap in our household with a dedicated 'toy' so to speak. Used to have a sleeper ex-county GMC sierra with a rather nasty 396 in it, but had to offload that for various reasons.
I dug around here and picked up this interim list of "specific" things to look out for with F-body cars. I'll bold what I have specific questions about, and would appreciate anything anyone has to add for a first time used buyer of (hopefully) our genre of cars. Here goes:
Noisy rear ends. Could be a sign of it breaking soon.
Transmission issues. Shifting, reverse, etc. My M6 I just bought can't bang gears, period. It's worn.
Leaky T-tops.
Leaky rear end.
Tire tread/condition. Will give you an idea of how it was driven and maintained.
Cracked dashes and door panels are common.
Rear main seal leaks. Other than between trans and engine, where/what am I looking at/for?
make sure all the buttons work (power windows, wipers, hatch release, etc.)
look at and smell the oil, tranny fluid (i know u said m6) coolant, if they have changed recently covers up, but smell of burnt tranny fluid, fuel in oil, rusty coolant are indicators
look for any smoke on start-up and wide open throttle, listen for knocks
Look at the part of the throttle body were the pin hits when you floor it. If this piece looks worn it means the car was beaten pretty bad.
Cracks on the dashboard and door panel; also make sure that there actually is an air deflector under the car.
Look in the rear wheel wells for plastered up rubber.
If its an auto, you are on borrowed time if the mileage is over 100,000 and the car was driven hard.
Bubbles/ripples in the paint on the roof/sail panel.
Inspect where any body welds meet. Like how you can open the hatch and see where the quarter panels are welded down. Check if they look different than a smooth factory weld, that will tell you if they have been replaced.
also look for stress marks around the back of the car...
they look like little waves in the paint
if you can notice them the car was ran hard
Make sure all the lights light up on the dash when you turn the key on. If someone disconnects an SES light, it can be annoying.
Bring a friend to stand behind the car to look for smoke on startup
Check the oil to see how it looks Am I looking for halos on a paper towel like for coolant/fuel?
Check the trans fluid if its an A4
Check the wheelwells/bumper for lots of rubber
Tire check- are they bald?
If it has drag radials on it.. well that one explains itself lol
Next, ask em if he/she has ever been to the track
when you turn the key on, see if the SES light is on, if its not, then they either disconnected it or turned it off.
M6 car? check to see how the clutch is.
Definately check the clutch fluid to see if its black, as that is a sign of beating the car or never changing the fluid
see how the hatch and the hood line up, beating on the car at the track will make things a lil crooked. torque will do that lol
A4 transmission, listen and feel how it shifts. it shouldnt shift real hard, but it should be slipping either
Also, listen for rear noise, such as massive amounts of whine, clunking and grinding
then theres little stuff like the slow pass. window, loose windows
Another thing you could do is take a quick look at their driveway/parking spot for oil/fluid spots when you are moving the car
Transmission issues. Shifting, reverse, etc. My M6 I just bought can't bang gears, period. It's worn.
Leaky T-tops.
Leaky rear end.
Tire tread/condition. Will give you an idea of how it was driven and maintained.
Cracked dashes and door panels are common.
Rear main seal leaks. Other than between trans and engine, where/what am I looking at/for?
make sure all the buttons work (power windows, wipers, hatch release, etc.)
look at and smell the oil, tranny fluid (i know u said m6) coolant, if they have changed recently covers up, but smell of burnt tranny fluid, fuel in oil, rusty coolant are indicators
look for any smoke on start-up and wide open throttle, listen for knocks
Look at the part of the throttle body were the pin hits when you floor it. If this piece looks worn it means the car was beaten pretty bad.
Cracks on the dashboard and door panel; also make sure that there actually is an air deflector under the car.
Look in the rear wheel wells for plastered up rubber.
If its an auto, you are on borrowed time if the mileage is over 100,000 and the car was driven hard.
Bubbles/ripples in the paint on the roof/sail panel.
Inspect where any body welds meet. Like how you can open the hatch and see where the quarter panels are welded down. Check if they look different than a smooth factory weld, that will tell you if they have been replaced.
also look for stress marks around the back of the car...
they look like little waves in the paint
if you can notice them the car was ran hard
Make sure all the lights light up on the dash when you turn the key on. If someone disconnects an SES light, it can be annoying.
Bring a friend to stand behind the car to look for smoke on startup
Check the oil to see how it looks Am I looking for halos on a paper towel like for coolant/fuel?
Check the trans fluid if its an A4
Check the wheelwells/bumper for lots of rubber
Tire check- are they bald?
If it has drag radials on it.. well that one explains itself lol
Next, ask em if he/she has ever been to the track
when you turn the key on, see if the SES light is on, if its not, then they either disconnected it or turned it off.
M6 car? check to see how the clutch is.
Definately check the clutch fluid to see if its black, as that is a sign of beating the car or never changing the fluid
see how the hatch and the hood line up, beating on the car at the track will make things a lil crooked. torque will do that lol
A4 transmission, listen and feel how it shifts. it shouldnt shift real hard, but it should be slipping either
Also, listen for rear noise, such as massive amounts of whine, clunking and grinding
then theres little stuff like the slow pass. window, loose windows
Another thing you could do is take a quick look at their driveway/parking spot for oil/fluid spots when you are moving the car
Following all of this... the intent of this is to be a more economical (har har) vehicle than my big diesel crew cab, fun transportation that's also comfortable. Provided I get the one I'm looking at, at the price I'm looking at, I'll have about 3k in "excess funds" to be able to throw at it.
What should I be doing for a "freshen up" on the vehicle given its age?
Lastly, what modifications would you guys recommend for a recreational/daily driver carrying a family of 3, with a possible foray into autocross as well as a couple runs at the local 1/4 mile?
I know that the two pretty much don't mix as per all the stickies, but I am sure there's a balance to be found... and hope you guys have some suggestions where that balance might lie at, given the obvious experience I've seen just reading around here.
Thanks!
03-20-2014, 04:49 PM
#3
TECH Senior Member
First of all, great forum. I did some searching and maybe my terms weren't that hot, but here goes.
Never had an F-body before, been in a couple (and have memories from one quality night where T-tops proved their worth) but that's all beside the point.
My awesome wife is 100% on board with fixing the gap in our household with a dedicated 'toy' so to speak. Used to have a sleeper ex-county GMC sierra with a rather nasty 396 in it, but had to offload that for various reasons.
I dug around here and picked up this interim list of "specific" things to look out for with F-body cars. I'll bold what I have specific questions about, and would appreciate anything anyone has to add for a first time used buyer of (hopefully) our genre of cars. Here goes:
Rear main seal leaks. Other than between trans and engine, where/what am I looking at/for?
Never had an F-body before, been in a couple (and have memories from one quality night where T-tops proved their worth) but that's all beside the point.
My awesome wife is 100% on board with fixing the gap in our household with a dedicated 'toy' so to speak. Used to have a sleeper ex-county GMC sierra with a rather nasty 396 in it, but had to offload that for various reasons.
I dug around here and picked up this interim list of "specific" things to look out for with F-body cars. I'll bold what I have specific questions about, and would appreciate anything anyone has to add for a first time used buyer of (hopefully) our genre of cars. Here goes:
Rear main seal leaks. Other than between trans and engine, where/what am I looking at/for?
Or possibly just the rear diff, its pretty common for the rear diff cover gasket to leak, not a big deal really.
Check the oil to see how it looks Am I looking for halos on a paper towel like for coolant/fuel?
Also, the vehicle I'm specifically starting my search with had the interior removed (but it's all there, just out) due to it having the start of a track car change. Anything I should be looking at/for since the carpet's all out of it?
Following all of this... the intent of this is to be a more economical (har har) vehicle than my big diesel crew cab, fun transportation that's also comfortable. Provided I get the one I'm looking at, at the price I'm looking at, I'll have about 3k in "excess funds" to be able to throw at it.
What should I be doing for a "freshen up" on the vehicle given its age?
What should I be doing for a "freshen up" on the vehicle given its age?
Good shocks as well, not autozone or oem garbage.
Lastly, what modifications would you guys recommend for a recreational/daily driver carrying a family of 3, with a possible foray into autocross as well as a couple runs at the local 1/4 mile?
Good shocks will be the single best mod you can do to these cars, period. The factory decarbons (orange/black) are basically truck shocks that lack rebound and have too much compression, causing a jarring ride with sloppy, floaty handling.
Something like these will have you second guessing if you are even driving the same car as before:
http://www.stranoparts.com/partdetai...D=20&ModelID=7
Start with the shocks and bushings and go from there.
Properly matched swaybars (35mm front/22mm rear for example) is a large difference over stock as well as proper lowering springs (like strano springs). However lowering springs in general will hurt your launching as well as a larger front swaybar. A "happy medium" would be koni shocks on stock springs and strano swaybars, and then when you go to the dragstrip unhook a front swaybar endlink to run, then hook it back up to drive home. With these cars you can dragrace just fine with handling parts, but you won't have a snowballs chance in hell with handling with dragparts. Dont buy into the hype of replacing every little thing, most suspension parts are totally unnecessary for a street car with good handling and occasional drag racing (like LCA relocation brackets,control arms, torque arm, SFCs, STB). The biggest gains you will see with ride and handling will be from shocks first, then springs and swaybars, and then a watts link, everything else is miniscule at best.
03-20-2014, 08:42 PM
#4
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By "Rear main seal" Im assuming the seal at the rear of the engine. When changing out the pilot bearing its possible to damage the rear main seal, cause an oil leak and soak the clutch in oil causing it to slip.
Or possibly just the rear diff, its pretty common for the rear diff cover gasket to leak, not a big deal really.
Im no expert but Id look for metal shavings, color of the oil and like you said signs of coolant or fuel.
Maybe signs of a flood? Can't think of anything else really.
Typical things like fresh fluids, oil etc. Maybe new brake rotors (blank only) and pads (Hawk HPS) if needed. Changing out all the bushings wouldn't hurt either (stick with RUBBER!) something like this:http://www.stranoparts.com/partdetai...D=18&ModelID=7
Good shocks as well, not autozone or oem garbage.
Basically what I said above.
Good shocks will be the single best mod you can do to these cars, period. The factory decarbons (orange/black) are basically truck shocks that lack rebound and have too much compression, causing a jarring ride with sloppy, floaty handling.
Something like these will have you second guessing if you are even driving the same car as before:
http://www.stranoparts.com/partdetai...D=20&ModelID=7
Start with the shocks and bushings and go from there.
Properly matched swaybars (35mm front/22mm rear for example) is a large difference over stock as well as proper lowering springs (like strano springs). However lowering springs in general will hurt your launching as well as a larger front swaybar. A "happy medium" would be koni shocks on stock springs and strano swaybars, and then when you go to the dragstrip unhook a front swaybar endlink to run, then hook it back up to drive home. With these cars you can dragrace just fine with handling parts, but you won't have a snowballs chance in hell with handling with dragparts. Dont buy into the hype of replacing every little thing, most suspension parts are totally unnecessary for a street car with good handling and occasional drag racing (like LCA relocation brackets,control arms, torque arm, SFCs, STB). The biggest gains you will see with ride and handling will be from shocks first, then springs and swaybars, and then a watts link, everything else is miniscule at best.
Or possibly just the rear diff, its pretty common for the rear diff cover gasket to leak, not a big deal really.
Im no expert but Id look for metal shavings, color of the oil and like you said signs of coolant or fuel.
Maybe signs of a flood? Can't think of anything else really.
Typical things like fresh fluids, oil etc. Maybe new brake rotors (blank only) and pads (Hawk HPS) if needed. Changing out all the bushings wouldn't hurt either (stick with RUBBER!) something like this:http://www.stranoparts.com/partdetai...D=18&ModelID=7
Good shocks as well, not autozone or oem garbage.
Basically what I said above.
Good shocks will be the single best mod you can do to these cars, period. The factory decarbons (orange/black) are basically truck shocks that lack rebound and have too much compression, causing a jarring ride with sloppy, floaty handling.
Something like these will have you second guessing if you are even driving the same car as before:
http://www.stranoparts.com/partdetai...D=20&ModelID=7
Start with the shocks and bushings and go from there.
Properly matched swaybars (35mm front/22mm rear for example) is a large difference over stock as well as proper lowering springs (like strano springs). However lowering springs in general will hurt your launching as well as a larger front swaybar. A "happy medium" would be koni shocks on stock springs and strano swaybars, and then when you go to the dragstrip unhook a front swaybar endlink to run, then hook it back up to drive home. With these cars you can dragrace just fine with handling parts, but you won't have a snowballs chance in hell with handling with dragparts. Dont buy into the hype of replacing every little thing, most suspension parts are totally unnecessary for a street car with good handling and occasional drag racing (like LCA relocation brackets,control arms, torque arm, SFCs, STB). The biggest gains you will see with ride and handling will be from shocks first, then springs and swaybars, and then a watts link, everything else is miniscule at best.
Also, why stick with rubber bushings vs poly? It's just the first time I've ever heard that anywhere. I am not arguing that you are wrong or right, but I'd like to understand the basis of that position?
03-21-2014, 05:55 AM
#6
TECH Senior Member
That's what I was thinking.
I'm going to do a search as well, but I figured I'd ask both of you... how much ride degredation occurs when you lower these things a inch and a half? My intent is to get into SCCA and do some solo stuff w/ it just because from watching videos as well as talking to friends who do it elsewhere, it's a blast.
I'm going to do a search as well, but I figured I'd ask both of you... how much ride degredation occurs when you lower these things a inch and a half? My intent is to get into SCCA and do some solo stuff w/ it just because from watching videos as well as talking to friends who do it elsewhere, it's a blast.
Its hard to say how much it degrades because it will vary from person to person on what they feel is "acceptable" ride quality.
Ill tell you this, I don't like having people in the back of my car after lowering (didn't like it before either though). Ride quality is comparable to a C5 Z06 IMO, its definetly stiff but very rarely jarring, you gotta hit one hell of a bump to really jar the car, but this is on koni/strano setup, other setups will only be worse. On Konis with otherwise stock suspension its more BMW-like, where its firm and taut but never jarring.
The car is certainly DD worthy without question IMO, but more comfortable on stocks springs.
Also, why stick with rubber bushings vs poly? It's just the first time I've ever heard that anywhere. I am not arguing that you are wrong or right, but I'd like to understand the basis of that position?
Poly is fine for mounts and swaybar bushings, but pretty much everything else no. Rubber or rod ended (or rotojoints from UMI) are the way to go. Rubber will ride way better and have no noise and still handle great, where as rod ended joint may have some noise and vibration, especially over time.
03-21-2014, 08:01 AM
#7
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I know, right? I can't wait for the weather to break, Im going to try and get more autox in this year, its been a while for me.
Its hard to say how much it degrades because it will vary from person to person on what they feel is "acceptable" ride quality.
Ill tell you this, I don't like having people in the back of my car after lowering (didn't like it before either though). Ride quality is comparable to a C5 Z06 IMO, its definetly stiff but very rarely jarring, you gotta hit one hell of a bump to really jar the car, but this is on koni/strano setup, other setups will only be worse. On Konis with otherwise stock suspension its more BMW-like, where its firm and taut but never jarring.
The car is certainly DD worthy without question IMO, but more comfortable on stocks springs.
Just no poly bushings in parts that need articulation like control arms. Poly will bind and cause the wheel rate to skyrocket (causing snap over steer, or massive understeer), and in some cases (front control arms) they bind enough to actually crack the control arm. You WANT full suspension movement, the shocks/spring/swaybars are the ones that are supposed to be controlling the rate, not the bushings.
Poly is fine for mounts and swaybar bushings, but pretty much everything else no. Rubber or rod ended (or rotojoints from UMI) are the way to go. Rubber will ride way better and have no noise and still handle great, where as rod ended joint may have some noise and vibration, especially over time.
Its hard to say how much it degrades because it will vary from person to person on what they feel is "acceptable" ride quality.
Ill tell you this, I don't like having people in the back of my car after lowering (didn't like it before either though). Ride quality is comparable to a C5 Z06 IMO, its definetly stiff but very rarely jarring, you gotta hit one hell of a bump to really jar the car, but this is on koni/strano setup, other setups will only be worse. On Konis with otherwise stock suspension its more BMW-like, where its firm and taut but never jarring.
The car is certainly DD worthy without question IMO, but more comfortable on stocks springs.
Just no poly bushings in parts that need articulation like control arms. Poly will bind and cause the wheel rate to skyrocket (causing snap over steer, or massive understeer), and in some cases (front control arms) they bind enough to actually crack the control arm. You WANT full suspension movement, the shocks/spring/swaybars are the ones that are supposed to be controlling the rate, not the bushings.
Poly is fine for mounts and swaybar bushings, but pretty much everything else no. Rubber or rod ended (or rotojoints from UMI) are the way to go. Rubber will ride way better and have no noise and still handle great, where as rod ended joint may have some noise and vibration, especially over time.
Given everyone's advice as well as eyeballing around... price wise it looks like the bundles for sway bars, shocks and springs are the way to go. That stuff is all within my means for doing installs for (since I offroad and damn sure know how to take the sway bars off of rigs! LOL) and I'll keep the stock springs on-hand if it ends up just not being a ride I like after going through all the options for the adjustable shocks.
As for the stance on poly stuff, makes sense now. I've seen zerks that were installed for greasing the sway bars and such but I'm guessing with the backlash to poly, those don't work worth a ****. Wouldn't be the first time something sold for a vehicle literally degraded performance with a performance enhancing label (cough cough looking at you flowmaster)
So, parts-wise plus overall cost as a pseudo ballpark figure.. I'm looking at:
New fluids in everything at around $500 worst case to include filters, gaskets etc
BMR/Koni level 5 kit at 1600 (unless someone has a better suggestion to include putting together a different kit, and since at least from BMR it's the same price for just shocks and sway bars and the whole level 5 kit)
Figure the last grand of the prospective fundage will just go to interior stuff. New carpet, headliner, maybe see about getting the seats reupholstered if they're looking pretty bad. Turn the inside into about as new as I can get, since that's what I'll be interacting with the most. Maybe throw a decent head unit in if it's in the cards, since I like music.
I know links can be sorta hinky what with site sponsors and all, but has anyone had any luck or otherwise thought an acoustic kit was worth doing? Just thinking that since the car's interior is already out, it might be worthwhile to do that prior to putting down new carpet, etc.
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03-21-2014, 04:22 PM
#8
TECH Senior Member
People in the back seat? L O L the only thing going back there is groceries and my 4 y/o. I tried fitting back there once in a friends ride. Never again. Then again, I'm 6'3" so unless I'm driving or it's a truck... I generally will either fight for the front seat or just walk. I'm not a swiss army knife and don't fold up that way.
Given everyone's advice as well as eyeballing around... price wise it looks like the bundles for sway bars, shocks and springs are the way to go. That stuff is all within my means for doing installs for (since I offroad and damn sure know how to take the sway bars off of rigs! LOL) and I'll keep the stock springs on-hand if it ends up just not being a ride I like after going through all the options for the adjustable shocks.
As for the stance on poly stuff, makes sense now. I've seen zerks that were installed for greasing the sway bars and such but I'm guessing with the backlash to poly, those don't work worth a ****. Wouldn't be the first time something sold for a vehicle literally degraded performance with a performance enhancing label (cough cough looking at you flowmaster)
So, parts-wise plus overall cost as a pseudo ballpark figure.. I'm looking at:
New fluids in everything at around $500 worst case to include filters, gaskets etc
BMR/Koni level 5 kit at 1600 (unless someone has a better suggestion to include putting together a different kit, and since at least from BMR it's the same price for just shocks and sway bars and the whole level 5 kit)
New fluids in everything at around $500 worst case to include filters, gaskets etc
BMR/Koni level 5 kit at 1600 (unless someone has a better suggestion to include putting together a different kit, and since at least from BMR it's the same price for just shocks and sway bars and the whole level 5 kit)
First and formost the BMR swaybars are missmatching sizes, a 25mm rear swaybar is a relabeled drag bar, expect snap oversteer with that.
Next the Koni DA's in that package are total overkill, and will ride harsher than the Koni SA's. And finally Im not personally a fan of how BMR does business, they've been quite the scumbags in the past. Sam Strano on the other hand has multiple national SCCA auto-x championship titles with his Z28 (sold it a while ago though), he developed parts specifically for handling from the ground up (no other vendor can claim this), others have basically tried to copy him and come up short. He can give you insight no other vendor can about building the car to handle, as he has the real world experience that no other vendor does.
This is what I would buy:
http://www.stranoparts.com/partdetai...D=90&ModelID=7
03-22-2014, 07:33 AM
#9
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Ha...Tell me about it...
This is what I would suggest.
Funny you mention flowmaster, the 80 series catbacks made for these cars have actually robbed power vs the stock catback on back to back dyno tests. 9-ball the co-founder of LS1tech did a test way back years ago.
Id highly recommend the strano parts package.
First and formost the BMR swaybars are missmatching sizes, a 25mm rear swaybar is a relabeled drag bar, expect snap oversteer with that.
Next the Koni DA's in that package are total overkill, and will ride harsher than the Koni SA's. And finally Im not personally a fan of how BMR does business, they've been quite the scumbags in the past. Sam Strano on the other hand has multiple national SCCA auto-x championship titles with his Z28 (sold it a while ago though), he developed parts specifically for handling from the ground up (no other vendor can claim this), others have basically tried to copy him and come up short. He can give you insight no other vendor can about building the car to handle, as he has the real world experience that no other vendor does.
This is what I would buy:
http://www.stranoparts.com/partdetai...D=90&ModelID=7
This is what I would suggest.
Funny you mention flowmaster, the 80 series catbacks made for these cars have actually robbed power vs the stock catback on back to back dyno tests. 9-ball the co-founder of LS1tech did a test way back years ago.
Id highly recommend the strano parts package.
First and formost the BMR swaybars are missmatching sizes, a 25mm rear swaybar is a relabeled drag bar, expect snap oversteer with that.
Next the Koni DA's in that package are total overkill, and will ride harsher than the Koni SA's. And finally Im not personally a fan of how BMR does business, they've been quite the scumbags in the past. Sam Strano on the other hand has multiple national SCCA auto-x championship titles with his Z28 (sold it a while ago though), he developed parts specifically for handling from the ground up (no other vendor can claim this), others have basically tried to copy him and come up short. He can give you insight no other vendor can about building the car to handle, as he has the real world experience that no other vendor does.
This is what I would buy:
http://www.stranoparts.com/partdetai...D=90&ModelID=7
I really appreciate all the help.
04-26-2014, 03:57 PM
#10
TECH Enthusiast
Be leery of original AC system parts that are probably already leaking but being masked by periodically recharging the system. A new OEM style compressor, LP line with receiver/drier, and exp. valve will run you around $350-$400. The HP line is another $80-$100 or so. Then figure in a couple hours of labor. If the receiver/drier is still a factory original w/stenciling on top, odds are so is the compressor. 12-16 year old parts will eventually leak, especially if they sit for many months at a time. Figure $500 min on AC system maintenance.
Be aware of the rattles that are common the T56 6 speed transmissions/clutch. A lot of these cars come right from the factor with slight rattles and whirs coming from the shifter area. Most seem to say that these are nothing to be concerned with. I've never driven such a car for 50,000-100,000 miles to verify that. The rattles are typically due to input bearing sloppiness and the way the transmission gears load up. You will hear this rattle with the car idling in neutral and the clutch engaged (ie input shaft bearing assembly is spinning). When you depress the clutch pedal (clutch disengaged) the noise will go away as the input bearing assembly is disconnected from the transmission. Any issues with the transmission or clutch will be expensive since the transmission needs to be lowered to get at them. A throwout/release bearing that is on the way out will make noise whenever you depress the clutch pedal. There are probably a lot of cars out there where the clutch fluid has never been changed. So it will tend to be dirty. The question is whether that extra dirt and grit caused any internal damage to the system over the years.
Some owners also never change transmission, differential, or coolant over the years of ownership. Best if you find an owner that did service these fluids as required. Cold piston slap is another common issue with even brand new LS-1 engines ('98-'02). Even though most say this is not a concern as it goes away once the car is warmed up, I'd prefer not to buy a car with this problem. The quarter panels and door frames are about the only steel body panels on the car. You can check the paint on those with a spot rot/paint gauge to check for a repaint or body filler. The first Camaro SS I ever considered buying was claimed to be an original paint car (actually, most probably still are). When I checked the quarter panels I found a large area on one that was clearly repainted + w/ample body filler. That same car (74K mi) also had a very noisy rear end whine. And it had the piston slap...3 strikes. I had a '98 Z28 automatic with 22K miles that I drove until 115,000 miles. That transmission and engine were still tight and responsive after 8 years of driving. I bet that car could have gone to 150,000 miles on the orig drive train.....and changing trans fluid every 25K-35K miles helps too.
Be aware of the rattles that are common the T56 6 speed transmissions/clutch. A lot of these cars come right from the factor with slight rattles and whirs coming from the shifter area. Most seem to say that these are nothing to be concerned with. I've never driven such a car for 50,000-100,000 miles to verify that. The rattles are typically due to input bearing sloppiness and the way the transmission gears load up. You will hear this rattle with the car idling in neutral and the clutch engaged (ie input shaft bearing assembly is spinning). When you depress the clutch pedal (clutch disengaged) the noise will go away as the input bearing assembly is disconnected from the transmission. Any issues with the transmission or clutch will be expensive since the transmission needs to be lowered to get at them. A throwout/release bearing that is on the way out will make noise whenever you depress the clutch pedal. There are probably a lot of cars out there where the clutch fluid has never been changed. So it will tend to be dirty. The question is whether that extra dirt and grit caused any internal damage to the system over the years.
Some owners also never change transmission, differential, or coolant over the years of ownership. Best if you find an owner that did service these fluids as required. Cold piston slap is another common issue with even brand new LS-1 engines ('98-'02). Even though most say this is not a concern as it goes away once the car is warmed up, I'd prefer not to buy a car with this problem. The quarter panels and door frames are about the only steel body panels on the car. You can check the paint on those with a spot rot/paint gauge to check for a repaint or body filler. The first Camaro SS I ever considered buying was claimed to be an original paint car (actually, most probably still are). When I checked the quarter panels I found a large area on one that was clearly repainted + w/ample body filler. That same car (74K mi) also had a very noisy rear end whine. And it had the piston slap...3 strikes. I had a '98 Z28 automatic with 22K miles that I drove until 115,000 miles. That transmission and engine were still tight and responsive after 8 years of driving. I bet that car could have gone to 150,000 miles on the orig drive train.....and changing trans fluid every 25K-35K miles helps too.
Last edited by Firebrian; 04-27-2014 at 02:06 PM.
