Deeohgie69

iTrader: (3)

Ok so I'm new to the ls1, I've read as much as I could since I got my car back in June but I need some experienced answers. Here's a little background, I bought a 01 trans am with only 11,613 miles on it almost 4 months ago. It came with borla catback and was lowered. All I've done is koni str.t, lca relocation brackets, and slp lid. The car got driven very little and ended up having a bad lifter (didn't help with how I drive). So instead of saving up and doing it how everyone said in all the posts, I had to go a different route. I'm dropping it off at cbi streetcars in a few weeks. I'm having a 231/239 cam, ls7 lifters, new valve springs, pushrods, TSP headers & catted y-pipe, yank ss 3600 sc, trans cooler, and DSX tuning. My questions are:

1. I only have 2.73s (no money to get new ones), how loose is this stall going to feel, and what lockout speed is good? I'm 90% city driving and it's my dd for the time being.

2. I'm wot a lot and was wondering how the stock 10 bolt is going to hold up with the cam and stall? It has new KDW tires and actually hooks dead from a roll and very little spin from a dig. I'm sure I won't hook after this though.

3. Are the stock 28lb injectors good enough for my mods now? or will I need bigger ones when I eventually get new heads?

Also does anyone have any idea roughly what I can expect in the quarter mile? I haven't ran it at the track, but I have a buddy that has an 07 gt with some mods/gears/tune and runs consistent 13.49-13.54's. We raced 3 times from a dig and I pulled a little over 2 cars on him shutting down at 110-115mph. Sorry for all these questions, I was planning on reading up on all of this before I started modding. Hope this is in the right section, if not can you please move it where it needs to go? Thanks

FirstYrLS1Z

iTrader: (4)

Since you already have the stall picked out and the question is about the gears and rearend,it should have been put in the gears and axles forum.
2.73s' will feel looser,but you'll get used to it. 3.73s' are the preferred consensus for A4s'.
Our little 10 bolts hold up well behind a stalled A4.

Deeohgie69

iTrader: (3)

Yeah I wasn't sure where to post this. I kind of got caught up in the "thing" where if I have to replace lifters and possibly cam I may as well get a bigger cam. Why pay twice you know? Lol, then you can't get a cam without long tubes, y pipe, stall and tune. So I had to use up all my cash just to get the bare minimum of what I need so I wouldn't waist money in the long run. I would have preferred to go with 3.42's and was trying to build the suspension and drive terrain first. it just didn't workout that way. I had done all my research on here thinking all of that would have been done before building the engine. So I really wasn't sure how these would affect everything? Yank is 2-3 weeks before the stall is ready. I'm just trying to prepare myself if I do need to change anything so I can start figuring out how to get it, or change something before then.

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

I wouldn't want a cam that size for a daily driver, but that's just a matter of preference. I'd like something smaller, in the 224-228 or so range.

A ~3600 stall is excellent for a stock engine, but actually a bit on the small side for a cam of that size. This is another reason why I'd like a smaller cam; so that stall speed doesn't need to be in the area of ~4500 for best match to the powerband.

2.73s and a 3500ish stall are fine, IMO. Some people are more bothered by "looseness" than others - it's really just a perception issue and everyone is a little different. Understand that a 3.73 swap isn't going to do much to improve ETs or acceleration once you have a 3500+ stall speed already in place, so really the only reason to do the swap at that point is if you think the stall feels too loose for your tastes. Depending on the quality of gears and installer, the rear may also not hold up as well once the gears have been messed with. Stock, untouched rears usually hold up for a long time in an A4 car, even with a bigger stall, so long as you can avoid wheel hop.

Stock '01+ injectors should be fine for a cam/headers car.

I think the car would have better manners, be more fun to drive, and be faster with a smaller cam and a nice set of stage II 243 heads or the like. But that's just my opinion.

Deeohgie69

iTrader: (3)

See that is actually what I originally was going to go with was a 224r. Chad from CBI streetcars talked me into it and said that DSX could tune it where it wouldn't be much of a difference than the 224r. I was kind of questioning that myself. I've watched videos on youtube of a bunch of cars built by him and tuned by dsx but the cams in those are so ridiculously big making 1200+rwhp that I'm not sure if it will or not. Can a really good tuner make that cam have good street manners? or do I need to call and go with a 224r or 228r?

Deeohgie69

iTrader: (3)

Thank you guys for all the info on the stall with 2.73's, injectors, and the rear end. Heads would have been great to do now but I can't afford any more right now. Any input is taken gladly because I'm just wanting this done right for when I get heads later. I just don't want to dump all of this money into it and be unhappy or screwed. I talked to Chad at cbi again before I went to work yesterday. He said after dsx tunes it with that stall that it would be really comparable to the 224r in street manners with a 114 lsa, only it will have a lot more chop to it. I asked him if I would have to be up in the powerband more on this cam for power and how the low end torque would be vs the 224. He assured me that with that stall it will do as good as the 224, but it will just pull a lot harder up top. I'll let you know in 3 weeks how it goes, and hopefully it's good news. He said he's been doing this for 15 years and does not want a unhappy customer. Said he wouldn't suggest it to me if he wasn't sure it was going to work for what I was wanting. Seems like he's pretty cool to work with and good at what he does. I do however think that his idea of a big cam vs mine may differ a little lol. You can search "CBI's 1300hp 6 speed F1X C6Z" to see his car.

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

Thing is, "much of a difference" is sort of a subjective statement. Just like with looseness of a converter, some people are more sensitive than others. You may discover that the 231/239 cam is perfectly acceptable to you, but it's hard to predict for sure until you've experienced a few different setups. My personal default would be for something smaller, but with better heads - net result being improved street manners (especially idle quality), slightly better power/torque at lower rpms (improved tip-in/part throttle response plus not having to rev the stock bottom end as high), but still plenty of power everywhere. There is also a point of diminishing returns with a big cam and stock heads.

If you're on the fence about what to do and you trust your builder/tuner, then I could see why you'd want to follow his advice. There is more than one "right way" to do this, based on different goals/preferences/levels of tolerance - hence the reason why there are so many cams and heads/cam packages available.

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

Just wondering, how did you determine that there was a bad lifter in the first place?

Deeohgie69

iTrader: (3)

I dropped it off at a buddy that builds a lot of cars to look at while I did some running. When he called me to pick it up that's what he said it was. I had him look at it before and he us that scope or whatever it was to determine it wasn't a rod bearing or coming from the top end. He wasn't sure if it was a lifter or a wrist pin. Now that it's gotten worse that's what he said it was. So I'd rather go ahead and do the cam now while I'm in this deep. Normally he's do it but right now he's got his car torn apart doing a custom turbo setup on his 01 ss.

Yeah I think you are right about trusting the builder because I did tell him I was going to go with possibly PRC Stage 2.5 LS6 CNC Ported Heads or something along those lines as soon as I could. So maybe that is why he suggested this cam. It makes since that you said that now.

DANOZ28

iTrader: (1)

i have to agree with the other poster anything over 228 really isnt daily driver IMO. goodluck! also i wouldn't run mt-et streets tires with a stock 10 bolt.

RevGTO

iTrader: (12)

A few points:

1. Sometimes LS1 valvetrains are noisy and it doesn't necessarily indicate that a lifter has failed. Also, piston slap can sound like rod knock, but doesn't actually make for a problem. If the noise greatly diminishes when the car warms up, it's probably piston slap and not a worry. I say this because if it ain't broke, you may not want to fix it.

2. That cam is going to take your powerband to 6500 and above. To maximize, you're going to have to adjust your shift points up into that range, which will stress your stock tranny to the max. I would recommend a custom cam that will peak at 6200 or lower and a shift kit and trans tuning will be a must.

3. I can't imagine that combo of cam and stall feeling good with 2.73's in daily driving. But bigger gears will cut into your highway gas mileage, which will already be in the tank (pun intended) with that cam.

thunderstruck507

iTrader: (18)

My roommate and I both run a 230/238 113+2 grind. His car is a m6 daily driver and mine is an A4 with the Yank SS3600 and could be daily driven if I wanted to.

My car peaks at 6200rpm and I have it shifting at 6700rpm for best ET. The car acts like it would prefer a 4000 converter.

The combo you posted should be good for low 12s to high 11s on a drag radial.


All that aside, I would lean to a custom grind cam a hair smaller than the 231/239 for a true daily driver auto. Something along the lines of an EPS 226/230.

Deeohgie69

iTrader: (3)

It's definitely not piston slap, I have driven for over two hours and it's just as loud. I was also worried about the powerband of how high this cam is going to run. He reassured me that this cam would be no problem at all as a daily driver and the tuner is very good at tuning these vehicles. He said he has ran this cam in hundreds of his customers vehicles and would not recommend it to me as he knows what I'm looking to do with it. I was leary at first, but I feel pretty confident in what he tells me. He said after he tunes it I will have no streetability issues whatsoever. He also knows that in 6 months or so that I will be getting heads to match the cam. I am not positive that this isn't one of his own custom grind cams to be honest. I'll know more when I drop it off in two weeks. Yeah the gears kind of worry me, but so far everyone said it's personal preference so I'm going to wait and see before I change them out. I'm more worried about traction now because I just put brand new bfg kdw2 all around not knowing I this was going to happen.

Deeohgie69

iTrader: (3)

If everything goes alright it will only be my daily driver for a year at tops. That is another reason I went ahead with the bigger cam because I want to get into the mid 11's and have no problem on a few road trips now and then. So it was good to hear you can dd your cars. Low 12's was what I was actually hoping for but not expecting. If it hits 12.0 or less I'll be more than happy.

Thanks for all of you guys responses, I'm going to talk to him again when I drop my car off to make sure of the things that's been brought up. I really don't want to do it twice. I'm open to bashing too so don't be shy lol. It's all for learning and not taken to heart. That's why I'm asking all of you that's knows so I can ask the builder and tuner these things.

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

I agree, and this is absolutely a valid concern, especially for a daily driver and where money is limited.

To the OP: I know your stock trans has very low mileage, but you should expect a shortened lifespan for a stock 4L60E when shifted at rpms significantly above the design limits. The 4L60E was designed for 6000rpm maximum operation, but as the stock rev limiter was set to 6200 I can only assume that GM felt this was still within the window of acceptability at stock power levels. But you will be increasing power levels as well as bumping shift points beyond that window (for max performance with that cam).

If you generally just cruise with the car, it will probably take quite some time to hurt the trans, considering the current low mileage and thus freshness of the unit. But if you spend a lot of time at WOT, I'd make sure to have some cash set aside for building the trans. It's good to be prepared if you are counting on it as a daily driver.

Deeohgie69

iTrader: (3)

I'm hoping that it will last me about 8 months or so. Only reason I couldn't do it all the way I wanted to right now is because I was hurt and off work since feb this year. Hopefully the trans cooler will help for a while, i'm either going with the b&m #266 20,500 , or the #274 29,200. Within a year I'll be able to get heads, trans built, and a different rearend + a different car for my daily. I do however have a pretty heavy foot. I am wot quite a bit throughout the week. Most of that is highway pulls from 55-1xx, the rest is 20 rolls, because it's not often it works out for a dig run. I only drive 6 miles round trip to work and the rest is just weekend cruising. How long do you think I can get out of the transmission like that? Some days I won't hammer it at all, the next I may run into 3 or 4 and maybe 10+ wot. Will having the 2.73's affect it differently? I know it just feels weird being in drive, shifting out of 2nd gear to 3rd at 99-100 and it being up in the rpm's for a longer period. Is there any other way to make it last a little longer than the trans cooler? Also what's worse on the trans, dig runs, rolls, or just stop and go in town driving?

DANOZ28

iTrader: (1)

i went with an aluminum trans pan for extra cooling. i think they cost around $150.

Deeohgie69

iTrader: (3)

How much did the pan drop your temps?

BobDoLe

iTrader: (11)

speak for yourself.. our little 10 bolts vs stalled cammed ls1 = boom imo. i never had wheel hop, but i like race tires, so maybe my opinion doesn't really count here. mine went on the 1-2 shift. that's where i usually spin the tires a little or it grabs depending on how hot the road surface tires are.

if you're gonna put that power down, the 10 bolt is going to break.
...and then you won't have to worry about 2.73's anymore. just start saving up for that rear and hope it doesn't break before you're ready for it. i was surprised when mine went and i think the guy enjoying his brand new Hyundai velocity was too after i passed him and then spit gear oil all over his car.


i need to add that our auto transmissions also don't like additional horsepower (or tuning out torque management). you might want to save up for that too. or just stick with roll racing and DO NOT LET THE THING SHIFT INTO OVERDRIVE AT WOT (put gear selector in 3rd and leave it when you go racing).

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

If you're beating on the car daily with several WOT runs to max shift point (which will need to be much higher than stock for peak performance with the cam you're intending), plus the additional power, you have to be prepared for some possible issues. Cooler fluid temps will certainly help (external cooler plus extra capacity pan - possibly finned, lower fan cut-on temps to better cool the fluid while stuck in traffic), but you can expect a shortened life span under these conditions with a stock unit. Heat is more of a long term killer and can be managed; significant increases beyond designed rpm or power (or both) limits tend to be a quicker killer though.

I'd actually have to agree with FirstYrLS1Z. I did many passes in the 1.7x and 1.6x range with a stall and cam, all on drag radials, and never lost a 10-bolt (no wheel hop).

There are a bunch of guys who have gone faster with the stock 10-bolt behind an A4 without issues for a long period.

Is the 7.5" 10-bolt a great rear that you can count on? Certainly not, as there have been some failures even in mild applications. But generally it's far from an instant "boom" behind every A4 with more than stock power. The stock trans is a bigger concern at that point, based on the higher rpm shift points plus additional power.

Here's an interesting recent thread that catalogs some of the real world experiences about the 7.5" rear, both behind autos and manuals in cars that are raced:

https://ls1tech.com/forums/gears-axl...ock-7-5-a.html