speedychevy

I have a 2001 LS1 Camaro that cranks but wont start. Last week I had a no crank no start problem but I was able to bridge the starter to get it to fire. It started fine for a while after that.

Today I went to replace the starter for peace of mind (assumed it was a failing solenoid). After replacing the starter, the car cranks strong but won't turn over. It turns and turns but wont fire at all. Seems to be a spark/fuel issue but it's weird after replacing the starter I have this problem. I put the old starter back on and it was the same thing.

I charged the battery and attempted to jump it while starting the car and had no luck. I made sure everything was hooked back up properly. Any ideas?

speedychevy

Update:

Tried having someone turn the key and crank with a few spark plug wires off to check spark and I'm getting none.

Also, when the engine cranks the RPMs don't move at all. When the key is turned they stay at 0

Mercier

iTrader: (15)

Did you put plugs in said plug wires and ground those plugs to the motor? Have you checked your fuses? If you checked spark properly, did you check at least one from each bank?

Fonsi

I have the same just like problem now , starter broke got remplace now the car don't start crank over but no luck starting also i remplace the cranksensor in case because i don,t have any codes so i try with no results .

Fonsi

Do you ck for voltage to the coils ? and see if they are getting power but not sending to the plugs . When you change the starter the battery still conected or was out ? I change the cranksensor with out luck and i think the camsensor is at the back of the engine passanger side hard to get to. but i will try that and see let you know because you have the same problem i do.


update:
I change the camsensor no luck still with out start. now what ? the car still with no codes so i am shooting in the dark.

speedychevy

I tried a few with plugs in and grounded them. I also tried sticking a screw driver in to get the spark to jump. No luck with either so it appears there's no spark at all. I can also hear the fuel pump prime when the key is turned.

I looked at my fuses. I swapped around the relays with no luck. I'm going to double check everything today. I do have a volt meter but I'm an idiot when it comes to using it. I really have no idea how to troubleshoot with one of those things.

What can cause a no spark situation? ignition switch, icm, crank sensor, etc..??

speedychevy

that's interesting you're having the same issue after replacing the starter. I did not check for voltage at the coils. don't know how. First thing I did was disconnect the battery. When I hooked it back up I could hear the doors lock by themselves which I thought was strange.

When I did change the starter, in order to get the new one to fit, I put a lot of stress on the wires that run to the starter (battery wire & smaller wire) so I was concerned there, but the starter cranks strong so that can't be it right?
the starter cant cause a no spark symptom, correct?

Mercier

iTrader: (15)

Those starter wires could be wrapped up with others and when you pulled on them that tugged something else loose. Worth tracing everything back and make sure you don't have something else unplugged. For basic stuff, multi-meters are pretty easy. First, everything in a car except the alternators and the coil output(at the plug) is DC(direct current) running at 12V(olts). You can set your meter to DC and put the black wore on a good metal part of the motor that is grounded and use the red wire to probe around for voltage. An easy test to make sure you have the meter set right is to pick your grounding spot and then touch the red line to the positive battery terminal. You should get somewhere between 12-14 volts. As far as what wires should be hot on the coils, I am unsure. You might want to post this in the electrical section where there would likely be some guys that know exactly what wire is what and possibly can point you to a schematic.

But basically you figure out where you should have juice, and verify you have it there. If not, you work your way back to the supposed source of power until you find power, and then something in between is not making the connection and causing the problem.

Might be worth looking at the computer connectors(harness and PCM side) to make sure no pins worked themselves out or have corrosion or other deterioration going on.

On the door locks when battery reconnected, that's interesting. Could be indicative of a BCM(body control module) issue which seems to be popping up on F-bodies a lot around here lately.

Mercier

iTrader: (15)

See here..looks like BCM and anti-theft might have something to do with it:

http://www.camaroz28.com/forums/ls1-...e-help-405377/

I know the guy says fuel pump is also disabled but different cars can have different configs for this. Basically there is some component of anti-theft in the BCM and that might be hanging one or both of you guys up.

speedychevy

I looked into the bcm symptoms when I first had trouble. It seems like people are mostly complaining about the windows and the radio not working correctly, but I guess it could contribute to a no start issue. Can a bcm cause no spark??

Today I pulled off the starter to take a look at the wiring and the crank sensor. I pulled out the crank sensor and the blue wire in the connector literally fell out. I think those wires got tugged when trying to finagle the new starter in. Also, the sensor itself was covered in oil but I think that's normal?

So I think my problem was with the sensor and the wiring to the sensor. The wires leading into the connector look a little worn out and damaged.

So a few questions... Should I buy a new connector and re-wire it? can I use butt connectors with the existing wires and just cut them and wire in a new connector?

Or should I try and reattach the blue wire into the exisiting connector and see if that works? Is there a way to test to see if can get spark without reattaching the starter to save time? (turning the key without the starter hooked up)

speedychevy

Here are a few pics. When I originally pulled the connector off, the blue wire was still connected but was loose and basically fell out with little effort.

Mercier

iTrader: (15)

Nice find!! Well, nice that you found it, I mean.

I would get a new pigtail(plug with wires that you can connect to your factory harness) or look to a company like racetronix that can provide you with bits to repair that one. I hate cutting factory wires but I it already broke that changes things IMO. I would opt for a new connector. It would even give you the chance to lengthen the wire a little so you don't end up with the same problem again hopefully.

speedychevy

I already ordered an exact match for the pigtail connector on eBay. Unfortunately none of the parts stores around me had it in stock so it'll be a few days before I can go about fixing it. I also bought a new crank position sensor but my old one is probably fine. The no spark symptoms sounded in line with a crank sensor issue so this is all making sense. And if I'm not mistaken the blue wire that came loose is the sensor signal. So without that the crankshaft position sensor cant tell the ignition coils to fire, hence no spark.

Any tips on the best way to wire in a new connector? Some splicing and some butt connectors should work, correct? I'm a novice when it comes to wiring & electronics.

Also, does anyone know off-hand the gauge of the wire & the type of butt connectors I need? I believe it's the same connector for the MAF if that helps at all.

Mercier

iTrader: (15)

It is probably 18 gauge wire or so..you should be ok with blue butt connectors. If you want to really NEVER worry about it again, soldering is the best bet. You can get a cheapo hit to do such a thing and some shrink tube for under $20 at most places I think. If you don't feel comfortable with soldering, butt connectors really do work and are fairly reliable. I would get the heat shrink type to keep moisture out and then tape them up for good measure.

BTW, soldering is easy..kust oracticenin a coupme of scrap bits for a few mins first. The key, IMO, is to heat up what you are soldering, not the solder itself. You touch the solder to the hot work piece. It's tempting to put the solder on the iron because it melts easier/quicker but that wont get it down in/on what you are trying to solder together.

Probably a billion and a half YouTube videos showing how to do basic soldering of stranded copper wires.

Good luck.

Fonsi

wow., that is a good one , i guess i am going under the car one more time and see if any cables are like that . thanks . let me know if that was your problem please .

Fonsi

yeeeeeaaaa ,, was the connector the green cable was broke inside , so speedychevy that has to be you problem . same same I just jump the cable for the moment but is working happy happy thank you so mush . let me know about your car .

Fonsi

yea was the cranksensor conection cable was broke inside . thank for all you help.

speedychevy

Glad to hear you solved it!

I'm going to wait until my new connector gets here to mess around with it but it's looking like we found the solution. Luckily I have a car to use in the meantime.

Fonsi

yea i still going to use my other car for the moment , i will like to look a way to fix the factory cable before i cut and put a new one . I jump the cable just to make sure was back running . I guess your superman x-ray powers work for us and avoid overspending of money. funny from starter to not starting .

Fonsi

Well I fix the factory connector you can do the same . got the rubber seal out and the metal connector out with small screwdriver is like a fuse they have a clip i pass the cable back in the seal and open the metal connector put the cable back in the same way was before but this time a give it 2 solder tips to make it stronger . put the connector back in the plug and slide the rubber seal back on with the same screwdriver i got heat insulation tape so i can wrap the cables all well and done i bit of work but i still with the factory cable . No cuts still factory to my eyes .

Also if you have the new starter and is the double long bolt just put it in it will save you a headache later because the factory ones with the short bolt in one side after a so mush use and torque they brake i see some people with the whole engine block base broke and that can be good at all . If you have the one with the short and long bolts change it for the one with the two long bolts most of the auto parts and ebay will give you the two long bolts one .